Brady, the OL and the OC

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I can't believe we are already thinking of moving on without Brady. It still feels like yesterday when he took over for Bledsoe.

 

[Kontradiction]

I can't believe we are already thinking of moving on without Brady. It still feels like yesterday when he took over for Bledsoe.

Hopefully in another five years. The guys that want to move on without Brady this year are just ******ed and should be placed on the ignore list.

 

[alvinnf]

Hopefully in another five years. The guys that want to move on without Brady this year are just ******ed and should be placed on the ignore list.

You know your spoiled when?

A) Daddy buys you a new Mercedes for your 16th Birthday
B) The person that cleans your room is named Conswella
C) You hope NE get's good draft pick compensation for TB before it's too late
D) All of the above

 

[ATippett56]

Brady did have his worst game of the year against the Baltimore Ravens in the playoffs.

Tom Brady: Game Logs

Which proves that Edelman no is Welker and Aiken is a stiff. Don't kid yourself, Edelman will never be another Wes Welker. If Aiken and Stanback are on the roster next year, the New England Patriots will not make the playoffs.

It's time to return to a balance offensive attack, 50% rushing attempts - 50% passing attempts. Scrap the shotgun, put Brady under center with a halfback in the eye formation. This team does not have the wide receiver talent to run the spread attack and Brady is not a running quarterback unlike Tim Tebow.

 

[Kontradiction]

Brady did have his worst game of the year against the Baltimore Ravens in the playoffs.

Tom Brady: Game Logs

Which proves that Edelman no is Welker and Aiken is a stiff. Don't kid yourself, Edelman will never be another Wes Welker. If Aiken and Stanback are on the roster next year, the New England Patriots will not make the playoffs.

It's time to return to a balance offensive attack, 50% rushing attempts - 50% passing attempts. Scrap the shotgun, put Brady under center with a halfback in the eye formation. This team does not have the wide receiver talent to run the spread attack and Brady is not a running quarterback unlike Tim Tebow.

In order to do that, we're going to have to draft a RG and a FB. Not that I wouldn't mind seeing that myself...

 

[ATippett56]

You know your spoiled when?

A) Daddy buys you a new Mercedes for your 16th Birthday
B) The person that cleans your room is named Conswella
C) You hope NE get's good draft pick compensation for TB before it's too late
D) All of the above

Who the hell wants to trade Tom Brady? Blame Belichick for the lack of wide receiver depth on this roster: Aiken, Stanback, Slater, Edelman, et al.

Damn, I'm not sure if there are more stiffs in the morgue.

 

[ATippett56]

In order to do that, we're going to have to draft a RG and a FB. Not that I wouldn't mind seeing that myself...

You can always draft a fullback in the sixth or seventh round, no problem. However trading away a third and fifth round draft pick for Derrick Burgess hurts the New England Patriots draft an offensive guard in the early rounds while trying to fill all the holes on the defensive front seven (aside from Wilfork, Warren, and Mayo).

 

[emoney_33]

Who the hell wants to trade Tom Brady? Blame Belichick for the lack of wide receiver depth on this roster: Aiken, Stanback, Slater, Edelman, et al.

Damn, I'm not sure if there are more stiffs in the morgue.

Edelman is going to be a solid possession receiver if not a stud. He's a rookie, was a QB in college, broke his arm early in the year. All that mini-Welker talk was just media fluff, but he's going to be a player with a high YAC. The SOB is tough to bring down and has the quickness PLUS speed.

Aiken is a special-teamer no doubt, but they have a full offseason to get this right. They failed with Lewis/Galloway this past offseason, hopefully they get it right this year. A decent #2 wideout and you won't complain about the shotgun.

 

[ATippett56]

A decent #2 wideout and you won't complain about the shotgun.

The shotgun limits your running options. Funny how Bill Walsh did not believe in the shotgun formation and look how Joe Montana turned out.

 

[emoney_33]

The shotgun limits your running options. Funny how Bill Walsh did not believe in the shotgun formation and look how Joe Montana turned out.

I never said shotgun is a requirement, you are the one insinuating it can't work. I think it's safe to say BB and Brady are in Walsh/Montana's league though huh.

 

[ATippett56]

I never said shotgun is a requirement, you are the one insinuating it can't work. I think it's safe to say BB and Brady are in Walsh/Montana's league though huh.

I'm insinuating the New England Patriots offense is over-reliant on the shotgun formation. On third and long, I personally don't have a problem with it as long as there is a running back in the backfield.

 

[patsfan-1982]

i am sure that brady will want them to pay mankins, and add a few more O line men like a C and a RG. but mankins, will not come cheap. and we know the pats don't pay there players that may cost. the pats wilfork who will not be happy if they TAG him. and i can't see the pats offering Leigh Bodden, what he can get on the open market. he will be one of the top 3 FA corners next year. but thats a whole new can of worms.


as far as brady being hit so much . i think it's a mix of brady. the OC. and the offensive scheme.


#1 brady. he has to get the ball out of he's hands much faster even a throw out of bounds. is a lot better then forceing the ball and throwing INT's


#2 the OC. there has to be more runing next year. brady can't do it on he's own. they have to mix it up. there was way to much of brady comeing out and throwing 3 incomplete pass. that all so hurt the D a lot this year afer only a min or two they was right back on the field.


#3 the offensive scheme. dose every pass need to come out of shotgun. ? i know every one will say there offense. is complex. and the WR read the DB's to know how to run there routes. will thats just a fancy way of saying the pats passing game is just like backyard. football. moss, you go deep. and welker, you stay short and get open. that type of passing game is not going to work vs good teams. if the talent level at WR is not at it's max like it was in 2007.

 

[ivanvamp]

Brady doesn't generally get hit as a result of the line not holding. The sack numbers are pretty conclusive in demonstrating that.

To put some numbers to this statement, here are some sack stats:

2009
- Pats QB sacked 18 times (#3 in NFL)
- Pats attempted 592 passes (#5 in NFL)
- Pats QB sacked 1 every 32.9 attempts (#2 in NFL)

2008
- Pats QB sacked 48 times (#28 in NFL)
- Pats attempted 534 passes (#12 in NFL)
- Pats QB sacked 1 every 11.1 attempts

2007
- Pats QB sacked 21 times (#5 in NFL)
- Pats attempted 586 passes (#5 in NFL)
- Pats QB sacked 1 every 27.9 attempts (#5 in NFL)

2006
- Pats QB sacked 29 times (#10 in NFL)
- Pats attempted 527 passes (#12 in NFL)
- Pats QB sacked 1 every 18.1 attempts

I'd say that the OLine in 2009 did a pretty amazing job protecting Brady. The improvement from 2008 was probably partly due to improved line play, but mostly due to the QB being Brady (with his pocket presence) instead of Cassel. But compare 2009 with 2007 and 2006, and you can see that Brady's jersey was kept remarkably clean this past year.

No, pass protection wasn't the main problem with the Patriots in 2009.

 

[Aerobahn]

sacks are not the final say in pressure and pass protection. The second half of the indy game Mathis was destroying off the edge, and tom was throwing it away like a hot potato.

 

[emoney_33]

sacks are not the final say in pressure and pass protection. The second half of the indy game Mathis was destroying off the edge, and tom was throwing it away like a hot potato.

Well his completion % was the 2nd best of his career, so it's not like pressure was a major "problem" this season. It didn't effect the offensive production to the point of being worse than any other year except 2007.

 

[BradyManny]

But compare 2009 with 2007 and 2006, and you can see that Brady's jersey was kept remarkably clean this past year.

No, pass protection wasn't the main problem with the Patriots in 2009.

These stats don't tell the real story. What about QB hurries? Do they take into account the fact that both NO & Miami were generating pressure with 3 or 4 man rushes, letting them leave extra guys in coverage, leaving no one open?

Again - as I just did in your QB thread - I think the eyeball test is better than the stats here. Koppen was getting beat a lot this year. Even our Pro Bowler Mankins struggled in pass protection at times. Kazcur had some problems, maybe injury related. Our most underrated offensive lineman, who might be the most balanced in terms of being good at both pass protection and run blocking - might retire (Neal). Brady gets rid of the ball before the rush gets there - sometimes to a fault, he should've taken some sacks at the end of the year, but instead turned it over.

We have to address RG if Neal retires, and I think we need an upgrade at Center. Tackle seems pretty strong between Light, Kazcur, Vollmer & Levoir. But our interior line definitely needs some bolstering.

Of course, if we had a better 3rd wideout who could actually beat a CB 1-on-1, then the O-Line might not be an issue.

 

[emoney_33]

Again - as I just did in your QB thread - I think the eyeball test is better than the stats here.

Eyeball test has 0 credibility, and has been proven bias and wildly inaccurate. However, you are correct in that simple sack stats do not paint the whole picture. At least Hurries, and average time with the ball are needed to analyze just how much pressure was on the QB.

We have to address RG if Neal retires, and I think we need an upgrade at Center. Tackle seems pretty strong between Light, Kazcur, Vollmer & Levoir. But our interior line definitely needs some bolstering.

Of course, if we had a better 3rd wideout who could actually beat a CB 1-on-1, then the O-Line might not be an issue.

If Neal retires we absolutely have work to do to fill that RG spot. I think his injuries/absences have been the single largest contributing factor to OL struggles for the Patriots over the last 3-5 years.

 

[Deus Irae]

sacks are not the final say in pressure and pass protection. The second half of the indy game Mathis was destroying off the edge, and tom was throwing it away like a hot potato.

No statistic, other than wins/losses, has the "final say". Nonetheless, the reality is that the line was a lot better in pass protection than most people here are wont to claim. The statistics just open a window for people to look through, especially for those willing to admit that Brady wasn't being all that helpful in the pocket in comparison to pre-injury Brady.

 

[BradyManny]

Eyeball test has 0 credibility, and has been proven bias and wildly inaccurate. However, you are correct in that simple sack stats do not paint the whole picture. At least Hurries, and average time with the ball are needed to analyze just how much pressure was on the QB.

Do you know where average time w/ the ball is tracked as a stat? Or advanced stats like that can be found - aside from football outsiders, I think that does not have such stats.

If Neal retires we absolutely have work to do to fill that RG spot. I think his injuries/absences have been the single largest contributing factor to OL struggles for the Patriots over the last 3-5 years.

If Neal hadn't gone down in SB 42, I have no doubt we win that game. Just kills me to say that, but really, I think it is the case. The guy has been pretty underrated in his time here, and the depth behind him just can't replicate what he does. I know Mankins is the Pro Bowler, but I frankly think Neal was better this season, when healthy. Maybe someone with a more trained eye who watches the line closely - like Unoriginal - has an opinion on that. It's unfortunate that Neal's career may be coming to a close.

 

[emoney_33]

Do you know where average time w/ the ball is tracked as a stat? Or advanced stats like that can be found - aside from football outsiders, I think that does not have such stats.

Unfortunately I don't I tried to find some, but haven't been able to. Who wants to go back and watch all the games with a stopwatch! ??

If Neal hadn't gone down in SB 42, I have no doubt we win that game. Just kills me to say that, but really, I think it is the case. The guy has been pretty underrated in his time here, and the depth behind him just can't replicate what he does. I know Mankins is the Pro Bowler, but I frankly think Neal was better this season, when healthy. Maybe someone with a more trained eye who watches the line closely - like Unoriginal - has an opinion on that. It's unfortunate that Neal's career may be coming to a close.

I agree, I've always thought Neal was solid as a rock and we've never seem as sharp when he goes down. Although I make no claim to being able to analyze OL play, so I'll wait for the resident experts around here to chime in.