4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here [merged 10x]

[BlitzFritz]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I liked the decision to go for in on 4th and 2.

It was a pick your poison situation. Punt to Peyton with 2 mins and 2 timeouts and watch him move down the field and win. OR make 2 yards now and win the game.

I thought it was a smart move. A better decision than punting.

(I also thought the spot was terrible. Why didnt it get booth reviewed?)

 

[PromisedLand]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I was shocked, obviously, although it was a first down.

If they knew they were going on 4th they should have run on 3rd. Then run again on 4th assuming they gained at least a few inches.

I agree that it was a first down, but the BB boneheadery didn't just include going for it 4th and 2 from your own 28 with 2:08 left in the game and a 6 point lead, it also included wasting all 3 of the team's timeouts before the two minute warning. IF we had any timeouts left we could have challenged the spot and it likely (IMO) would have been reset as a first down and the game would have been over. Horrible, simply horrible clock management.

For those who think BB can do no wrong (and I haven't read most of this thread but I know you're out there) - if you're going to get the credit when you win you have to be able to take the blame when you lose.

 

[NickOGS20]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I liked the decision to go for in on 4th and 2.

It was a pick your poison situation. Punt to Peyton with 2 mins and 2 timeouts and watch him move down the field and win. OR make 2 yards now and win the game.

I thought it was a smart move. A better decision than punting.

(I also thought the spot was terrible. Why didnt it get booth reviewed?)

Didn't get booth reviewed because we had no challenges left and the snap was before the two-minute warning.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I couldn't get on the Board after the game last night, so I've had a few hours to cool down.

The only reason you call that play at that point in a game on that part of the field with that score on the board is if you don't think your Defense can keep the other team from moving 70--90 yards (about where a decently covered punt would have put the Colts) in two minutes with one time out.

Belichick knows NFL Defense in general and the Patriots Defense in particular better than anybody on the planet. That was his decision and I am not going to second guess it.

Unfortunately, however, that leaves me with no other conclusion to draw other than that Bill Belichick doesn't think the Pats Defense can stop Manning when the chips are down.

I have to admit, that leaves me concerned, but I don't see what else I am supposed to conclude. He's too young for a "senior moment." He seemed to be in full possession of his faculties on the sidelines. It wasn't a preseason game where you might want to try out a play for the regular season. I see no other conclusion.

 

[ivanvamp]

Re: Defending Belichick...

I guess he figured "either way we're screwed" because he knew the D was gassed and was unable to stop them from scoring in 4th quarter.......might as well go for it.....to me it is still one of the dumbest decisions I remember BB making.....

How the #$*#@($* could the defense have been gassed?

First, the Colts only had the ball for 24 minutes and change the entire game, so the Pats' D wasn't exactly overworked (22 and change at the time of the notorious 4th down fail by the Pats).

Second, the Colts' offense (thus, the Pats' defense) was only on the field for just over 5 minutes in the fourth quarter.

Third, in-between the Colts' first and second TD of the 4th quarter, the Pats had two possessions sandwiching a Colts turnover (that Colt possession lasted a whopping 10 seconds). The Colts scored with 12:14 left in the quarter, ran one offensive play (Peyton INT) at the 7:54 mark after the Pats had the ball for 4:12, and then they started their 2nd TD drive with 4:12 to go. That's essentially an 8-minute *game-time* break...which, with TV commercials, etc., was more like about a 15-20 minute break in real-time. Then the Colts scored their 2nd TD in just 1:49. In other words, when BB made his decision to go for it, the Pats' D had been on the field in the 4th quarter for a grand total of 4 minutes, 3 seconds, with about a 20 minute real-time break mixed in.

I mean, how can these professional athletes that didn't actually expend much energy up til then and had just gotten basically a 20 minute rest, have been *gassed*? Makes absolutely no sense. Certainly the Colts' D in the 4th quarter, despite playing the same guys (they didn't make many substitutions), despite having been on the field for 35+ minutes, despite being on the field for 8:49 of that 4th quarter up til that point, still made all the plays they needed to make. They were flying all over the field. *THEY* weren't "gassed".

The Pats were gassed in 2006 because they were on the field a ton in the 4th quarter, half the team had the flu, and the temps in the Dome were cranked up a little. This year? I don't buy that excuse for one little second. If it's actually the true story, then the Pats' conditioning coaches should be fired on the spot.

 

[WhiZa]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

It doesn't matter if Indy was slicing through the D in the 4th quarter. It was all about clock management. There's a better chance of the clock winding down while they march 70 yards then it would be to get that 4th and 2.

To me, the reason he did it was kind of selfish. He wanted to control the games destiny and not let Manning have some drive that you see on the games greatest 4th quarters. I would not want to look at the D's eyes in the locker room after last night. It's going to be a long flight home.

 

[vyrago]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Most coaches would of punted the ball. I still feel the Pats got cheated by the Colts refs again. Faulk caught the ball and got enough for the 1st down. I know what I saw.

Agreed, despite Al Michaels' insistence that Faulk didn't have it.

Just to review: YouTube - Kevin Faulk Stopped Short on 4th Down in New England Territory..Patriots vs. Colts

Faulk made the catch and the yardage and the spot is wrong.

 

[mcgraw_wv]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

You can see it on the field that at that point in the game, our D was not getting any pressure on Manning, and Manning was picking our secondary apart. It wasn't conditioning, it was manning fionally figured out what we were throwing at him.

I said this last week.

We couldn't put Miami away last week ( we still won I know ) and last night, 2 turnovers in the endzone, again ample opportunities to put them away.


I've liked watching this team so far, but overall were kinda of a finesse soft team... nothing like the super bowl teams.

We need a legitimate running game.

 

[Triumph]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

They'd rather be in 5 wide than give a Jim Brown in his prime the ball at this point. It's a sad commentary on how much of a neglected stepchild this team's running game has become.

Maroney went back to his old ways last night. I'm sick of him and all the excuses why he cant succeed.

Old man Kevin Faulk had to have more rushing yards than LM.

It makes you wonder if Larry Johnson can do better.

 

[luvbrain]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I agree that it was a first down, but the BB boneheadery didn't just include going for it 4th and 2 from your own 28 with 2:08 left in the game and a 6 point lead, it also included wasting all 3 of the team's timeouts before the two minute warning. IF we had any timeouts left we could have challenged the spot and it likely (IMO) would have been reset as a first down and the game would have been over. Horrible, simply horrible clock management.

For those who think BB can do no wrong (and I haven't read most of this thread but I know you're out there) - if you're going to get the credit when you win you have to be able to take the blame when you lose.

I thought we still had one more time out left? -- Never mind, they did use up all their time outs.

Anyway, I agree the coaches made the wrong calls in the fourth but regardless, no one can make the right calls all the time. I don't blame going for it on fourth down though. I feel 75% of the time, the offense will make it. The game shouldn't even have to come down to that. We had that game and lost it. Not to mention that phantom PI call on Butler. I just hope we meet them again in the playoff.

 

[chech1965]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Look on the bright side...it's only a regular season game...the rest of the slate looks doable and best of all..


THE JETS LOST TOO.

:singing::singing::singing:

 

[mcgraw_wv]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

Look on the bright side...it's only a regular season game...the rest of the slate looks doable and best of all..


THE JETS LOST TOO.

:singing::singing::singing:

True, but the Colts are a lock at HFA, and we are looking way up for even a bye.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I liked the aggressive decision to go for it on 4th down. BB obviously felt his offense was better geared to win him this game than his crumbling defense.

The only thing is I wish BB had gotten aggressive MUCH earlier in this game with his offense (ie instead of allowing them to take their foot off the accelerator as they did) when they had the Colts just hanging on and ready for the fatal blow. THis game should have put out of reach 1/2way through the 4th but, for whatever reason, the Pats weren't able to apply the death blow on offense.

 

[mcgraw_wv]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I liked the aggressive decision to go for it on 4th down. BB obviously felt his offense was better geared to win him this game than his crumbling defense.

The only thing is I wish BB had gotten aggressive MUCH earlier in this game with his offense (ie instead of allowing them to take their foot off the accelerator as they did) when they had the Colts just hanging on and ready for the fatal blow. THis game should have put out of reach 1/2way through the 4th but, for whatever reason, the Pats weren't able to apply the death blow on offense.

So far they have only been able to put away an 0-6, and 0-7 team. this year.

I think showing publically you have no faith in the Defense last night is going to really hurt their performance... I feel we have a better defense than during some of the super bowl years, why they don't come up when they need it, or why there is no faith in them, is beyond me... but even when BB was plugging in Troy Brown on defense, he always wanted defered to the Defense to stop the offense.

 

[chrisfx811]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

First the phantom PI call to set up the Colt's TD that cut it to 6, then...

A horrendous spot by the ref who immediately ran to the spot where Faulk landed rather than where he caught the ball.
What's worse is Faulk was having his body turned on that catch, and the sideline ref who ran in for the BS spot actually had a view of Faulk's back on the backhalf of the play by they ay it looked on slo-mo replay. 9/10 times that ball is rightfully spotted where he caught the ball. Just not if you're the Pats playing in Indy.

I am so flippin furious over this, mainly because I knew it was going to happen. If Mike P gets on NFLN and defends this BS, I may just give up watching the NFL altogether as they will have officially crossed over to WWE territory.

*What sucks a little more is that Welker was open 3 yards further over the middle, but TfB was locked onto Faulk.

As far as confidence in the defense, maybe BB felt that the 3 DL he had playing were too gassed. Losing TBC and Ninko depleted their depth, and they were playing 3 or 4 guys the entire game.

 

[Snarf]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I liked the decision.

Clearly our D couldn't stop jack at that point in the game.

What pissed me off was the defense being too dumb and stopping Adai with a first and goal on the 1. They HAD to let him score... hell, PUSH him into the endzone.

Then it's a much easier task of TFB scoring a field goal with over a minute to go. Quite doable.

THAT was the blunder of the night.

 

[luvbrain]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I liked the aggressive decision to go for it on 4th down. BB obviously felt his offense was better geared to win him this game than his crumbling defense.

The only thing is I wish BB had gotten aggressive MUCH earlier in this game with his offense (ie instead of allowing them to take their foot off the accelerator as they did) when they had the Colts just hanging on and ready for the fatal blow. THis game should have put out of reach 1/2way through the 4th but, for whatever reason, the Pats weren't able to apply the death blow on offense.

:agree: I sense the offense stops trying to score and more or less just manage the clock at that time.
Maybe BB was afraid people will call him classless for running up the score :bricks:

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

If they knew they were going on 4th they should have run on 3rd. Then run again on 4th assuming they gained at least a few inches.

This is my only issue. I'm not going to fault BB for thinking his offense should pick up 10 yards on 4 plays, because in reality they absolutely should. But I hated the play selection, and I think the decision was spur of the moment.

 

[SoCalPatsfan90]

Re: Statistically speaking, going for it on 4th and 2 was the right call

meh...didnt Manning marched down and scored in like 1 minute and half or something? i could be wrong but it seem like that's what i remembered. BB just didnt trust the young defense...

Don't forget, that "march" down the field was aided by a 31yd penalty.

 

[TomPatriot]

re: 4th and 2 on the their own 30 - Discuss it here (Merged 9X)

I thought about this call for a long time after the game and don't actually think it was that bad. The proof is in the pudding - they actually got the first down - you can't really factor a bad spot into the equation. And I think the defense was gassed - with or without the phantom PI call.

I like the agreesive call. What I don't understand is why the Pats were so much less agressive on offense and defense in the second half. Bend but don't break turned into bend over and don't bleat.