Content Post Stock up and stock down

[Rob0729]

Totally agree with the first point. When Mac had two dynamic receivers in college, he was absolutely awesome.

Your second point is interesting and insightful, well put. BB is the greatest NFL coach of all time IMHO, and he is still among the best. One of his strengths has always been his adaptability, he adapts the game plan to the personnel instead of vice versa. However, as is typical for someone in his seventies who has enjoyed amazing success following a particular plan, I think he has become a little more set in his ways. As you correctly point out, with the transcendence of Brady at QB, BB as GM could mostly focus on the defense and assume the offense would still be a strength even with little draft capital devoted to the OL and WR. It worked for 6 Super Bowl rings.

...But now the Patriots have a young QB who surprise, surprise, is no Tom Brady. Other teams with a recent new first round QB in most cases immediately spend very high draft capital on WR and/or OL. As examples, Joe Burrow got Chase, Tua got Hill and Waddle, Lawrence got his buddy Etenne who has receiving skills, Zach Wilson got Garrett Wilson, etc., etc. With the exception of a bottom of the first round guard, Mac hasn't really had that same type of offensive draft help.

It will be interesting to see if BB adapts and if more attention is paid to the offense in next year's draft, with more attention paid to WR in particular. On the bright side, maybe Douglas and Boutte become so awesome a new WR isn't needed.

Two blindspots for Belichick in the changing of the league seems to be the need for top talent at WR and speed on defense especially at LB. Over the last two plus decades, he has adapted to the changes in the league. Many times faster than most or all the other teams. But these are two areas where he has been way behind the league in adapting. Not sure if it stubbornness or he is just losing his fast ball or just crappy talent evaluation or a combination of these.

The only top QB without at least one top WR is Mahomes and he has Kelce instead. I cannot think of a single top 10 QB that doesn't have at least one solid #1 WR or elite TE. Both Tua and Hurts were on trajectories for being mediocre until they both got two #1 WR caliber WRs both with elite #1s.

I admit I was resistant to the #1 WR argument. It took me awhile to accept the truth. But as this league is offense heavy and the current and future generations of players are having the top pure talent wanting to be WRs rather than RBs or CBs/safeties, the trend is likely going to continue.

 

[Rob0729]

LET'S BE CLEAR ON BOUTTE

Ok, I agree he played OK for a 6th rounder who we hope will develop in the future.

However, in THIS game, the patriots would have been better off with him being inactive, or at best on the bench in case of two injuries. One 6th rounder learning on the job was quite enough. And, yes, Douglas did OK.

We had lots of receiving targets available and active: Bourne, Shuster, Douglas, Stevenson, Elliott, Montgomery, Henry, Gesicki, and Brown.

He made rookie mistakes which is understandable. I blame him for not converting the 3rd and 12 by dragging the foot, but understand he is a rookie playing the first game of his career and was a work in progress to begin with.

 

[mgteich]

He made rookie mistakes which is understandable. I blame him for not converting the 3rd and 12 by dragging the foot, but understand he is a rookie playing the first game of his career and was a work in progress to begin with.

OK, so it is OK to give him reps so that he can learn, rather than have better players have the reps?

I don't blame Boutte.

If he was one of the best choices for receiver reps, then so be it. I understand the support.

However, to have him play in order to get reps is just plain wrong. This is the REAL season, and REAL games are on the line. The best options should be playing. Not playing our best so that the bottom of the roster players can get reps doesn't make sense to me.
==============
TO BE VERY BLUNT
If Boutte currently deserves 69% of the reps on Offense, the Offense is in serious trouble.

 

[Ring 6]

LET'S BE CLEAR ON BOUTTE

Ok, I agree he played OK for a 6th rounder who we hope will develop in the future.

However, in THIS game, the patriots would have been better off with him being inactive, or at best on the bench in case of two injuries. One 6th rounder learning on the job was quite enough. And, yes, Douglas did OK.

We had lots of receiving targets available and active: Bourne, Shuster, Douglas, Stevenson, Elliott, Montgomery, Henry, Gesicki, and Brown.

0 catches on 4 targets is not ok for anyone.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Mac has one of his best games as a pro and he’s on the down swing?

This guy can’t win with some of you folks.

 

[archstanton543]

Mac has one of his best games as a pro and he’s on the down swing?

This guy can’t win with some of you folks.

What's weirder is that it's a lot of the older posters who surely remember the pre-Brady era and the QB play back then.

 

[zydecochris]

Two blindspots for Belichick in the changing of the league seems to be the need for top talent at WR and speed on defense especially at LB. Over the last two plus decades, he has adapted to the changes in the league. Many times faster than most or all the other teams. But these are two areas where he has been way behind the league in adapting. Not sure if it stubbornness or he is just losing his fast ball or just crappy talent evaluation or a combination of these.

The only top QB without at least one top WR is Mahomes and he has Kelce instead. I cannot think of a single top 10 QB that doesn't have at least one solid #1 WR or elite TE. Both Tua and Hurts were on trajectories for being mediocre until they both got two #1 WR caliber WRs both with elite #1s.

I admit I was resistant to the #1 WR argument. It took me awhile to accept the truth. But as this league is offense heavy and the current and future generations of players are having the top pure talent wanting to be WRs rather than RBs or CBs/safeties, the trend is likely going to continue.

Good point. Moreover, it should be pointed out that Mahomes (apart from arguably being the best QB in the game) is in his seventh year and has won two rings, and in his formative years he had both Kelce and Hill. All of the other QBs mentioned (Burrows, Tua, Herbert, Hurts, Lawrence, Wilson, Mac) are starting their third or fourth year, and I would argue that it is especially important for young QBs in their formative years to have quality receiver help to help them develop confidence in their game, which is so important for the QB position. The only QB in the modern era who I can think of who excelled at the highest level with a non-stellar receiver core in their first three years was, let's see...a certain Tom Brady (he had some fine players at WR, but not at the same level as Kelce, Hill, Chase, etc.). Maybe BB simply over the years grew to unconsciously expect his QBs to have similar Brady like ability to transcend average receivers in their second or third year. Other teams don't seem to have the same expectations of their young QBs, and I don't think we should expect that from Mac.

 

[1960Pats]

Up - Boutte's right foot was Down.
Down - Boutte's left foot was Up.

I think some here are being unfair to Mac. He had a few drops and mistakes to deal with.

 

[1960Pats]

What's weirder is that it's a lot of the older posters who surely remember the pre-Brady era and the QB play back then.

I can't believe how many youngsters think that they know what the old folks are thinking.
All of the anti-Mac crowd here looks young to me.
Personally, I still think it's too early to determine if it's Mac to the Future or not.

 

[1960Pats]

Good point. Moreover, it should be pointed out that Mahomes (apart from arguably being the best QB in the game) is in his seventh year and has won two rings, and in his formative years he had both Kelce and Hill. All of the other QBs mentioned (Burrows, Tua, Herbert, Hurts, Lawrence, Wilson, Mac) are starting their third or fourth year, and I would argue that it is especially important for young QBs in their formative years to have quality receiver help to help them develop confidence in their game, which is so important for the QB position. The only QB in the modern era who I can think of who excelled at the highest level with a non-stellar receiver core in their first three years was, let's see...a certain Tom Brady (he had some fine players at WR, but not at the same level as Kelce, Hill, Chase, etc.). Maybe BB simply over the years grew to unconsciously expect his QBs to have similar Brady like ability to transcend average receivers in their second or third year. Other teams don't seem to have the same expectations of their young QBs, and I don't think we should expect that from Mac.

I'm not sure which station I heard it on but one of the callers came out with a stat for the top QBs. He used 94 games as the cutoff (apparently to help Brady's case) and said that in their first 94 games players like PEDton and Mahomes played 92 and 93 of those first 94 games with at least one pro-bowl player. In Brady's first 94 games he played with 0.

 

[1960Pats]

in other words, by doing his job.

Al Davis boiled it down for you all: JUST WIN, BABY!

anything else is just means to that end.

but Mac won’t win anybody over, because he doesn’t know how to win.

Mac is like any other QB or HC in the entire world. He needs better players to win. I saw plenty of mistakes made by others.

 

[1960Pats]

Yeah and Bill doesn't build an offense with stars.

Tom Brady was a star. So were Gronk and Thuney. You know what they have in common? All were dumped over money by the Pats and went on to help their next team win it all the following year.

And meanwhile, the people getting criticized the most here are the players, not the HC or owner who made the choices that put that anemic offense together.

 

[rochrist]

What's weirder is that it's a lot of the older posters who surely remember the pre-Brady era and the QB play back then.

Hugh Millen!!

 

[203Pat]

I can't believe how many youngsters think that they know what the old folks are thinking.
All of the anti-Mac crowd here looks young to me.
Personally, I still think it's too early to determine if it's Mac to the Future or not.

I agree it is still early to make a true determination but based on what we've seen I am skeptical. Unfortunately QB's today don't get the runway they did in the 80's and 90's to learn and develop. I think Mahomes is the only guy I can remember since Carson Palmer who was drafted in the early first round and sat the whole year. I know Lamar basically did to but he was late first and they basically revamped the offense for him so that is slightly different. I mean look at this year, Bryce Young and CJ Stroud never even seemed to be in a battle to start and Anthony Richardson who is one of the most raw QB prospects to come out in a while was also the day one starter.

 

[turkeyneck]

Hugh Millen!!

I'll see your Hugh Millen and raise you a Joe Kapp.

 

[Kasmir]

Excellent breakdown of Gonzales's game. Points out that the team already trusts him to be their boundary CB, and that contrary to the knock on him, he played with impressive physicality.

 

[Joey007]

UP:

BoB - Some are *****ing about too much reliance on screens. He was trying to protect a makeshift OL with two rookies from one of the best DL in football. Play calling doesn't occur in a vacuum. Bottom line, we saw a professional looking offense!

OL - Not great but exceeded expectations by A LOT.

Defense - I don't want to kill any erections, but Philly may have been a little conservative because of the weather, and they played zero snaps in the preseason. Some rust. However, this defense looks like it could be special.

Rookie Class - Wow. Keion White is a stud. Gonzalez and Douglas look like they will be excellent contributors already. The punter is good. The two guards were very respectable in a tough opening game spot. Mapu made some plays. The kicker remains to be seen. And I wouldn't be too down on Boutte. If he has matured and has a head on his shoulders, he will learn from this game and come back stronger.

DOWN:

None. I am a homer.


Regarding Mac: He showed flashes of what we all hope he can be. In the first quarter, he appeared gun shy and a little ****ified in the pocket throwing off his back foot. Maybe he had PTSD from last season. The rest of the game was a huge improvement. If he can develop consistency and trust in the pocket, there is still hope for him.

I was out of the loop, and did not realize both Omenwu and Strange were out on the line until after the game.

The fact that the line was at least manageable vs. that front without those two makes me feel much more encouraged about this group.

 

[203Pat]

I was out of the loop, and did not realize both Omenwu and Strange were out on the line until after the game.

The fact that the line was at least manageable vs. that front without those two makes me feel much more encouraged about this group.

Very worried about this week. Trent Brown and Sidy Sow could be out with concussions and it looks like David Andrews has a chance to play but was limited with a hamstring. I don't know even know what the lineup would look like if Brown, Sow, Strange, and Onwenu all can't go.

Anderson at LT?
Mafi at LG
D Andrews at center
Jake Andrews at RG? Honestly I have no clue who would play here. Andrews never seemed to play anything aside from backup center.
RT Vederian Lowe?

 

[mgteich]

Very worried about this week. Trent Brown and Sidy Sow could be out with concussions and it looks like David Andrews has a chance to play but was limited with a hamstring. I don't know even know what the lineup would look like if Brown, Sow, Strange, and Onwenu all can't go.

Anderson at LT?
Mafi at LG
D Andrews at center
Jake Andrews at RG? Honestly I have no clue who would play here. Andrews never seemed to play anything aside from backup center.
RT Vederian Lowe?

Ferentz and Russey could both be elevated to the roster for Game 2.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I agree it is still early to make a true determination but based on what we've seen I am skeptical. Unfortunately QB's today don't get the runway they did in the 80's and 90's to learn and develop. I think Mahomes is the only guy I can remember since Carson Palmer who was drafted in the early first round and sat the whole year. I know Lamar basically did to but he was late first and they basically revamped the offense for him so that is slightly different. I mean look at this year, Bryce Young and CJ Stroud never even seemed to be in a battle to start and Anthony Richardson who is one of the most raw QB prospects to come out in a while was also the day one starter.

Aaron Rogers and Jordan Love were both 1st rounders and sat multiple years.