Content Post Stock up and stock down

[SlowGettingUp]

Bedard's ups and downs:

FIVE UP

David Andrews: Completely clean sheet against the best defensive line in the league was impressive.

Keion White: Terrific debut for the rookie makes you wonder if Deatrich Wise's days as a starter are numbered.

Ja'Whaun Bentley: Was tremendous at limiting the Eagles' six-back offense and getting off blocks, especially early.

Hunter Henry: This is going to be a dynamic duo.

Mac Jones: This overall performance was only bested by three games last season (Arizona, Miami and Cincinnati)

FIVE DOWN

Kayson Boutte: Not much explosion and two horrendous drops on the lack of toe touches.

Juju Smith-Schuster: Had a drop and a crucial bad route on 4th and 3 that could have cost this team the game. No juice off the line.

Atonio Mafi: As expected, was completely whipped at the point of attack. Good size but really slow feet.

Sidy Sow: Looked about 250 pounds out there, received a ton of help and was a liability. I mean, he was an emergency sub.

 

[PATS16N0]

Not that I was ever worried about the highly overrated Aaron Rodgers, but MNF seemed to show the Bills are regressing and the Jets are toast. With Miami’s annual collapse just a couple months away, I’d say the Patriot stock is up all around.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Up

The entire defense- I would list them individually but theres too many to shout out imo. I guess i can just shout out the rookies gonzo and white as i was pleasantly suprised how early they are coming up big. The defense played as well as you could have asked if the offense would have just done their part..

Mac - Disappointed he couldn’t convert at the end but all things considered he performed very well overall. Rainy conditions are always tough, he was playing a tough defense, and the drops / boutte’s toes were an issue. Not a perfect game by any means but a good game which could’ve been alot better.

Oline - did not run block well, but they gave mac a chance. Solid outing especially considering the injuries and its at least good to know they aren’t a fatal flaw (yet) as there were many concerns here.

Bourne and Henry- lumping them together because i thought both were great acquisitions in 21 and pretty encouraging first seasons. Then they were victims of a poorly run offense last year. Great start for both, bourne of course moreso.

Down

Rb’s - like mentioned above, not alot to work with. But they still could have made some plays and pretty underwhelming outside of one big play by rham that was mostly just set up well. Rham also caught one in the flat and someone stopped him one on one, and zekes fumble was a killer. I don’t expect this to be a down very often though.

Boutte - while its a great sign that he even saw the field week 1, still had a brutal game. Hopefully its a learning experience. Malcolm mitchell had a poor game in the 2016 afcc. A terrible drop and then failing to secure his feet on another 3rd down, finished with 0 catches. then we saw what he did in the super bowl.

Juju - not sure if his knee is an issue but he was a big disappointment. I didn’t think hed put up big numbers here but thought as least wed see more from him after the catch. Dont think he gained a single extra yard.

 

[billdog3484]

How are you blaming Jones for Boutte not knowing you have to keep both feet inbounds on a catch? Jones threw him a perfect ball, and if he'd done what any NFL receiver would have done, would have set them up 1st and goal at the 8 with 30 seconds and a TO left.

There is 50% of the fan base which has an irrational hatred of mac. Only way he can win them over is toughness and winning. He’s gotta be like Phil Simms

 

[n6249c]

There is 50% of the fan base which has an irrational hatred of mac. Only way he can win them over is toughness and winning. He’s gotta be like Phil Simms

in other words, by doing his job.

Al Davis boiled it down for you all: JUST WIN, BABY!

anything else is just means to that end.

but Mac won’t win anybody over, because he doesn’t know how to win.

 

[p8ryts]

There is 50% of the fan base which has an irrational hatred of mac. Only way he can win them over is toughness and winning. He’s gotta be like Phil Simms

I don't hate Mac, but he hasn't won me over yet. Right now I see his ceiling as Andy Dalton and he hasn't reached that yet. He starts the game slow, heats up mid game but doesn't close the deal at the end. The RPO's have helped him. He needs more zip on most of his intermediate throws, he does it sometimes but not consistently. My biggest concern is the flare passes and check downs. Very inaccurate on these short passes.

 

[203Pat]

There is 50% of the fan base which has an irrational hatred of mac. Only way he can win them over is toughness and winning. He’s gotta be like Phil Simms

I don't hate Mac by any means. I think he's a doofus and I wish he handled last year a little bit better but my football life would be much easier if he pans out. I just think we have a large enough sample size at this point to start to get nervous that he isn't "the guy" or at least the guy with how Bill constructs a roster. I know people like to point to Bill building a team with a strong defense but our defense gave up 18 points to one of the best offenses in the league last year and we still lost. At some point Bill needs to invest in the offense and I mean actually invest. No more bargain shopping on guys like Agholor or Juju. Trade up in the draft to get a blue chip receiver or go get one of these guys out there each offseason who is a true alpha dog.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't hate Mac by any means. I think he's a doofus and I wish he handled last year a little bit better but my football life would be much easier if he pans out. I just think we have a large enough sample size at this point to start to get nervous that he isn't "the guy" or at least the guy with how Bill constructs a roster. I know people like to point to Bill building a team with a strong defense but our defense gave up 18 points to one of the best offenses in the league last year and we still lost. At some point Bill needs to invest in the offense and I mean actually invest. No more bargain shopping on guys like Agholor or Juju. Trade up in the draft to get a blue chip receiver or go get one of these guys out there each offseason who is a true alpha dog.

The problem is that the way Bill builds the offense, most QBs are set up for failure. Everyone is gushing over Tua, but I tend to doubt he would be nearly as successful as he has been since last year if he was playing with the Patriots offense.

The problem is Bill builds the offense to have the QB elevate the players around him and there are few QBs in this league who can do it. In fact, I am not sure there is one beyond Mahomes since Burrow has never been asked to and Allen doesn't really seem to do it and relies on Diggs a lot. If the Pats move on from Mac, I am not sure that they are going to find a QB who can do much better unless Douglas or Boutte become legitimate #1s or Thornton can stay healthy and do the same or Belichick changes his philosophy and invests in a true #1 WR.

 

[203Pat]

The problem is that the way Bill builds the offense, most QBs are set up for failure. Everyone is gushing over Tua, but I tend to doubt he would be nearly as successful as he has been since last year if he was playing with the Patriots offense.

The problem is Bill builds the offense to have the QB elevate the players around him and there are few QBs in this league who can do it. In fact, I am not sure there is one beyond Mahomes since Burrow has never been asked to and Allen doesn't really seem to do it and relies on Diggs a lot. If the Pats move on from Mac, I am not sure that they are going to find a QB who can do much better unless Douglas or Boutte become legitimate #1s or Thornton can stay healthy and do the same or Belichick changes his philosophy and invests in a true #1 WR.

I mostly agree. I think you need a physical freak like Allen, Mahomes, or Herbert to have any chance of succeeding (unless you have the GOAT) to win with a bunch of B and C type players around him. Tua and Mac, to me at least, are basically the same QB except one has arguably the best one, two punch at receiver in the league with an innovative offensive coach while the other one has guys who are solid to bad and lack any explosive element. I do feel like Mac would look much better if Bill invested in the receiver position but with that bing said we can only judge him on what we see and he had 3 chances in the 4th quarter to take the lead and failed all 3 times.

 

[rochrist]

in other words, by doing his job.

Al Davis boiled it down for you all: JUST WIN, BABY!

anything else is just means to that end.

but Mac won’t win anybody over, because he doesn’t know how to win.

Tell that to Nick Saban.

 

[Zuma]

I didn’t read the whole thread but I’d like to add Ty Montgomery in the UP category for no injuries. He’s beneficial to the team when he’s not injured.

 

[203Pat]

Tell that to Nick Saban.

Lol give Mac the cast he had under Nick Saban and I bet he could win.

Najee Harris
Brian Robinson Jr
DeVonta Smith
John Metchie
Jaylen Waddle
An offensive line made up first and second round picks.

 

[rochrist]

Lol give Mac the cast he had under Nick Saban and I bet he could win.

Najee Harris
Brian Robinson Jr
DeVonta Smith
John Metchie
Jaylen Waddle
An offensive line made up first and second round picks.

That's kind of the point.

 

[Ring 6]

How are you blaming Jones for Boutte not knowing you have to keep both feet inbounds on a catch? Jones threw him a perfect ball, and if he'd done what any NFL receiver would have done, would have set them up 1st and goal at the 8 with 30 seconds and a TO left.

Same way he is blaming him for converting a 2 pt conversion that was called back by a penalty and then not converting from the 13.

 

[Boomer B]

With Mac I worry when he isn’t in ideal conditions (dome,sunny). A Patriot QB has to be able to take care of the ball in ****ty conditions.

I agree that BB is a “down” with 2 very questionable decisions. Gotta kick the field goal and on 4 and 17 he had to punt with all his TO’s.

The D looked good once it settled into the game. Bourne was good. Not to down on Boutte as those would have been tough catches on the sideline but hopefully he’ll be able to make them as he gets accustomed to NFL speed. He wasn’t getting much separation though. Henry looks poised for a bounce back year.

 

[mgteich]

LET'S BE CLEAR ON BOUTTE

Ok, I agree he played OK for a 6th rounder who we hope will develop in the future.

However, in THIS game, the patriots would have been better off with him being inactive, or at best on the bench in case of two injuries. One 6th rounder learning on the job was quite enough. And, yes, Douglas did OK.

We had lots of receiving targets available and active: Bourne, Shuster, Douglas, Stevenson, Elliott, Montgomery, Henry, Gesicki, and Brown.

 

[203Pat]

That's kind of the point.

Yeah and Bill doesn't build an offense with stars.

 

[203Pat]

LET'S BE CLEAR ON BOUTTE

Ok, I agree he played OK for a 6th rounder who we hope will develop in the future.

However, in THIS game, the patriots would have been better off with him being inactive, or at best on the bench in case of two injuries. One 6th rounder learning on the job was quite enough. And, yes, Douglas did OK.

We had lots of receiving targets available and active: Bourne, Shuster, Douglas, Stevenson, Elliott, Montgomery, Henry, Gesicki, and Brown.

Well I had Bill in my stock down as well so....

 

[Stu Pidassle]

With Mac I worry when he isn’t in ideal conditions (dome,sunny). A Patriot QB has to be able to take care of the ball in ****ty conditions.

I agree that Mac does not seem to handle bad weather very well. It was pouring when he threw the interception and did not settle down until the heavy rain stopped. Maybe he should consider a glove on his throwing hand when in wet conditions.

 

[zydecochris]

The problem is that the way Bill builds the offense, most QBs are set up for failure. Everyone is gushing over Tua, but I tend to doubt he would be nearly as successful as he has been since last year if he was playing with the Patriots offense.

The problem is Bill builds the offense to have the QB elevate the players around him and there are few QBs in this league who can do it. In fact, I am not sure there is one beyond Mahomes since Burrow has never been asked to and Allen doesn't really seem to do it and relies on Diggs a lot. If the Pats move on from Mac, I am not sure that they are going to find a QB who can do much better unless Douglas or Boutte become legitimate #1s or Thornton can stay healthy and do the same or Belichick changes his philosophy and invests in a true #1 WR.

Totally agree with the first point. When Mac had two dynamic receivers in college, he was absolutely awesome.

Your second point is interesting and insightful, well put. BB is the greatest NFL coach of all time IMHO, and he is still among the best. One of his strengths has always been his adaptability, he adapts the game plan to the personnel instead of vice versa. However, as is typical for someone in his seventies who has enjoyed amazing success following a particular plan, I think he has become a little more set in his ways. As you correctly point out, with the transcendence of Brady at QB, BB as GM could mostly focus on the defense and assume the offense would still be a strength even with little draft capital devoted to the OL and WR. It worked for 6 Super Bowl rings.

...But now the Patriots have a young QB who surprise, surprise, is no Tom Brady. Other teams with a recent new first round QB in most cases immediately spend very high draft capital on WR and/or OL. As examples, Joe Burrow got Chase, Tua got Hill and Waddle, Lawrence got his buddy Etenne who has receiving skills, Zach Wilson got Garrett Wilson, etc., etc. With the exception of a bottom of the first round guard, Mac hasn't really had that same type of offensive draft help.

It will be interesting to see if BB adapts and if more attention is paid to the offense in next year's draft, with more attention paid to WR in particular. On the bright side, maybe Douglas and Boutte become so awesome a new WR isn't needed.