Patriots Safety Position, Team May Stand Pat With Duron Harmon

Harmon didn't fall behind Wilson at safety. He was behind Wilson at the safety/linebacker in-the-box hybrid in the big nickel and goal line defense.

Mack Herron said:

I liked Ryan as well. But not as much as I liked McCourty his rookie year. And, if memory serves, McCourty played a lot more than Ryan. McCourty was not a better CB in his second season, however; he was worse. However much we might have liked Ryan his rookie season, his projected trajectory has enormous uncertainty. Next year he could be better, the same, or worse.

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Certainly a valid point for sure.

Hercules Rockefeller said:

I wonder how much of his second year struggles had to do with the brutal safety play behind him.

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I've always believed that the safety play is directly related to the corner play (which isn't exactly news, but I think it's more related than some seem to think).

I certainly hope that the safety play is better next year, but it's all a bunch of unknowns at this point. Not meaning to sound pessimistic, but the only thing we can do is trust Belichick and hope for the best. I would like to see a free agent signing at safety, but I'm thinking that the odds of selecting a safety in the draft may be higher. There's a possibility that they'll do both.

Does McCourty and four kids really make sense to you? We already have Wilson, Harmon and Ebner. Do we really need yet another draftee at safety on the 53?

supafly said:

Certainly a valid point for sure.



I've always believed that the safety play is directly related to the corner play (which isn't exactly news, but I think it's more related than some seem to think).

I certainly hope that the safety play is better next year, but it's all a bunch of unknowns at this point. Not meaning to sound pessimistic, but the only thing we can do is trust Belichick and hope for the best. I would like to see a free agent signing at safety, but I'm thinking that the odds of selecting a safety in the draft may be higher. There's a possibility that they'll do both.

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mgteich said:

Does McCourty and four kids really make sense to you?

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Have any of the past 5-6 yrs made sense to you in terms of the secondary choices?

McCourty and 4 kids vs choosing to pay a safety 8--8.5 million per season, as the prices increase across the board for many positions per every passing second due to the SEA Super Bowl victory + the increase in cap space?

They are going to need to likely select a higher round safety no matter what, unless you're good with letting the Wilson brothers battle it out along with Nate Ebner....There's nothing at all at the position, period. That's whether we get a "reasonably priced" safety in free agency or not.

The option may be the kids or pay two safeties $7M or more a year. McCourty will get that or be franchised for a year or two at about $7M or so.

supafly said:

Have any of the past 5-6 yrs made sense to you in terms of the secondary choices?

McCourty and 4 kids vs choosing to pay a safety 8--875 million per season, as the prices increase across the board for many positions per every passing second due to the SEA Super Bowl victory + the increase in cap space?

They are going to need to likely select a higher round safety no matter what, unless you're good with letting the Wilson brothers battle it out along with Nate Ebner....There's nothing at all at the position, period. That's whether we get a "reasonably priced" safety in free agency or not.

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mgteich said:

The option may be the kids or pay two safeties $7M or more a year. McCourty will get that or be franchised for a year or two at about $7M or so.

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Possibly, but after Ward and Byrd are both rumored to be wanting 10 million dollars per year, who exactly, would you propose paying 7 million a year to?

We all know the extremely low odds of them going after either one of the top 2 safeties, so I would highly doubt that they'd choose to pass up on that and pay someone else 7 million per year.

One more aspect to consider is that Devin McCourty could be laughing at our 7 million dollar projections as well, especially after his brother received 9 million per year on his latest deal.

It's looking like the draft + a mid/lower tiered FA to me, which seems to be the formula for many positions. It may be a challenge just to retain McCourty, let alone add another player who'd be costing a lot.

Can't we franchise McCourty for two years? The franchise number for this year is under $7M.

supafly said:

Possibly, but after Ward and Byrd are both rumored to be wanting 10 million dollars per year, who exactly, would you propose paying 7 million a year to?

We all know the extremely low odds of them going after either one of the top 2 safeties, so I would highly doubt that they'd choose to pass up on that and pay someone else 7 million per year.

One more aspect to consider is that Devin McCourty could be laughing at our 7 million dollar projections as well, especially after his brother received 9 million per year on his latest deal.

It's looking like the draft + a mid/lower tiered FA to me, which seems to be the formula for many positions. It may be a challenge just to retain McCourty, let alone add another player who'd be costing a lot.

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mgteich said:

Can't we franchise McCourty for two years? The franchise number for this year is under $7M.

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The safety number for this year is not under 7 million, as a matter of fact it's climbing towards 9 million at about 8.5.

So, by the time McCourty needs to be tagged, it will be upwards of 9 million, possibly closer to 9.5. Tagging him 2 years in a row would cost upwards of 21-22 million in guaranteed money.

NFL releases 2014 franchise, transition tag numbers - NFL.com

My bad; I must have been looking at old numbers. In any case, franchising McCourty will certainly be a strong option next year.

supafly said:

The safety number for this year is not under 7 million, as a matter of fact it's climbing towards 9 million at about 8.5.

So, by the time McCourty needs to be tagged, it will be upwards of 9 million, possibly closer to 9.5. Tagging him 2 years in a row would cost upwards of 21-22 million in guaranteed money.

NFL releases 2014 franchise, transition tag numbers - NFL.com

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PP2 said:

I haven't read Keyed's analysis. All I'm going by is my own judgment. I didn't deny that Harmon has had his ups and downs. What rookie doesn't?

The size sample he's given us this past season is too small to pass reliable judgment on. I haven't judged him too far either way, beyond recognizing that he flashed talent at times.

You claim that Harmon sank down the depth chart at season's end, but you seem to have forgot that he subbed in for McCourty who had the concussion, and put in two solid performances vs. the Ravens/Bills.

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The Ravens had a QB that isn't very good in the first place playing stripped of his two main options in the passing game from a season before on top of playing on one leg and the Bills had Thad Lewis at QB. The secondary as a whole allowed Lewis to have a 95.0 rating in driving rain. Not sure how you can point to Harmon alone as having a "solid" performance in a game like that. In the playoffs, when it mattered the most, he lost snaps to Tavon Wilson. Not sure how highly that speaks to Harmon's rookie season.

Thinking outside the box for the safety opposite McCourty – Tillman and Browner

Charles Tillman just turned 33 years old back at the end of February so he is obviously not a long-term solution. I do think he is an intriguing possibility however, he is extremely physical, great tackler, and one of the most dominates playmakers of his era. He forced 10 fumbles in 2012; he has more run stuffs than any CB in the last decade.

Charles Tillman - Chicago Bears - 2014 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

Brandon Browner is 29 years old so he is younger and would be more of a long-term answer than Tillman. At 6’4”, 221 Lbs. he would be a Kam Chancellor safety back there, and he can lay the lumber (as Welker). The downside is obviously he is suspended the first four weeks of the season and has a history of substance abuse related suspensions.

Brandon Browner - Seattle Seahawks - 2014 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

Re: Thinking outside the box for the safety opposite McCourty – Tillman and Browner

Already suggested both of those guys.

Re: Thinking outside the box for the safety opposite McCourty – Tillman and Browner

Why did you make a separate thread for this instead of posting in the free agency thread?

The main page is already cluttered, and there is 0 speculation of this happening at the moment.

Re: Thinking outside the box for the safety opposite McCourty – Tillman and Browner

Would love to see Browner back there.

Or Pollard as much as I hate to say it.

Re: Thinking outside the box for the safety opposite McCourty – Tillman and Browner

Both would be good options. I think Browner & Talib would be a great tandem of FAs and make it so we don't need to worry about our DBs for the rest of Brady's career (assuming we extend McCourty obviously).

I am all for that kind of move and the first 4 games do not worry me in the least.

However we still need to make sure we have enough money to improve our pass rush when the dust clears cause it doesn't matter how good our back end is if we can't get pressure.

Re: Thinking outside the box for the safety opposite McCourty – Tillman and Browner

JPsPats said:

Why did you make a separate thread for this instead of posting in the free agency thread?

The main page is already cluttered, and there is 0 speculation of this happening at the moment.

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You can use the ignore thread function if it is that overwhelming for you chief. I did not put it in the UFA thread because it has nothing to do with UFA rumors.

Re: Thinking outside the box for the safety opposite McCourty – Tillman and Browner

TBR said:

Would love to see Browner back there.

Or Pollard as much as I hate to say it.

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Pollard resigned with the Titans earlier in the offseason.

The strong safety problem

Gregory was cut, Adrian Wilson is washed up, the young Tavon Wilson hasn't played very much.

Who do you think will be the starter next to McCourty? Harmon? Or Browner in a role like the one Belichick envisioned for Tank Williams/McGowan etc...

What do you think?

Re: The strong safety problem

My guess....

If its someone in house, I'm thinking either Harmon or Adrian Wilson. I can see this being a need come draft day.

Re: The strong safety problem

My guess is that the Patriots are going to spend most of the game in sub-packages with McCourty, Revis, Browner, Dennard always on the field, with a mix of Ryan, Harmon and Arrington playing.

McCourty is locked in at FS, Revis at CB, but you can see Dennard in the slot and at CB, Browner at CB and inside.

Forget about old defensive backfield designations. Belichick is simply going to throw out defenders with only McCourty making sure the cap is on.