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The Jets were just unlucky?


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So I just watched the second half and that was much better. The defense still seemed weak, but honestly, was more than good enough. And yes Brady did play much better in the second half. That drive that answered the Jets drive (that made it 30-16) was fantastic.

I still think the Jets, if they make the playoffs, will cause problems.
 
Here's my problem:
The game could have turned out REALLY BADLY had the Jets actually made the 2-3 INTs on those terrible Brady throws in the first half. Brady and the offense looked AWFUL in the first half. The 2nd half didn't look all that better honestly, Brady made some big plays, yes, he gets that credit, but it still wasn't exactly clean albeit for maybe 1 drive.

14 of the points we scored were thanks to the defense: A fumble that set us up in the redzone and a pick-6 near the end of the game.

Then you look at the defense. Yes, they made some great plays. The really impressive part is they actually got some pressure on Sanchez. The reason I'm not trusting in the result, though, is because it's SANCHEZ. He's looked AWFUL the last couple weeks and it was the same story in this game. He missed a lot of open recievers, couldn't get the blocking schemes right, held on to the ball way to long at times, etc. I still think this defense has virtually no shot at keeping a team like Greenbay under 30 or 35 points.

And their defense has virtually no shot of keeping Brady and Co under 30-35 pts,will be a good game if it happens
 
1.) Gronk going out was not a mistake. He lost a leverage battle and got pushed.

2.) Using 2 plays to justify the safety is ridiculous.

3.) Patriots Dbacks suck. Bad play there is expected, not "luck".


etc...

Nothing the Patriots did compares to Holmes falling down or Folk missing the chip shot. That stuff was on the first drive, when the Jets could have really established themselves early. What's more, people should know better about the chippie, since we saw how it impacted the Patriots when Gost did the same thing against the Giants.

The Jets couldn't get set on the field for plays, and were giving up wide open passes. Sanchez threw a pass that tipped off 2 players. etc.....


The Patriots won. They won convincingly. But, to pretend that a large part of the difference wasn't due to boneheaded plays and bad luck on the Jets side is silly, particularly after what we saw happen last year in the playoffs. With all the Jets screw ups, that was a game that the Jets were clearly in before Sanchez vapor locked with the timeout that gave Brady the extra time and timeout at the end of the half.

Nothing compares to Connolly snapping the ball for no reason! Not one thing the Jets did comes close. They couldn't get set because the
pats were confusing them with formations run out of the hurry up; tipped passes are often intercepted. Fact is the team that makes fewer mistakes wins, how stupid is it to claim "we should have won, just made too many mistakes" the better team doesn't make those mistakes. I just don't get why some believe if their team can't execute and seems ill prepared that it somehow is more acceptable. Mcknight fumbled because of a good punt and good coverage that he saw bearing down. Sanchez's timeout was irrelevant, we would have scored anyway. the game clearly changed when we went no huddle and Gronk and Brady took over.
 
The Jets were just unlucky.....No team is That unlucky for that long, (the whole game) at that point the other team (the pats) were making Thier Own Luck. By playing better.
 
I lost it at:



Apparently dropped interceptions only count when someone not named Mark Sanchez throws them.

Sanchaz Claus led the NFL in dropped INTs last season.
 
Bad luck always follows bad play, wonder why?:rolleyes:
 
Same thing I have been saying about that playoff win. Alge does not drop that TD, we punt the ball, we.... arghh.
Yup, I agree.

Its a combination of the ball bouncing your way and having a sound game plan that the other team just cant seem counter. The Pats had that Sunday night.
 
Bad luck always follows bad play, wonder why?:rolleyes:

One play that seemed like it was unlucky for the Jesters was Ninkovich's 1st interception that "tipped" off two guys before he caught it. They showed that play on the Turning Point show on Versus - I am becoming a big fan of their work.

That particular pass was thrown slightly behind Shonn Green by Sanchez and hit both of his hands in front of his face. Green should have caught that ball. That Ninkovich was the recipient of a tipped ball was indeed luck, but prior to that interception it was a turnover by Green.

The last big play that struck me as pure dumb luck was the 2010 Hail Mary by David Garrard on the last play from the 50 against the Texans that was batted down into the hands of Mike Thomas. That was just a "heave it and pray" shot at the end zone that worked out.
 
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One of the big reasons the jets lost is that they were ill prepared to handle the no huddle/hurry up offense. Think about that -it's amazingly inept coaching, preparation and execution.

So even if Holmes doesn't fall down or Folk doesn't miss the FG or Marky Mark doesn't call the TO, at some point Brady goes no huddle, jets aren't ready for it and off we go.
 
One play that seemed like it was unlucky for the Jesters was Ninkovich's 1st interception that "tipped" off two guys before he caught it. They showed that play on the Turning Point show on Versus - I am becoming a big fan of their work.

That particular pass was thrown slightly behind Shonn Green by Sanchez and hit both of his hands in front of his face. Green should have caught that ball. That Ninkovich was the recipient of a tipped ball was indeed luck, but prior to that interception it was a turnover by Green.

The last big play that struck me as pure dumb luck was the 2010 Hail Mary by David Garrard on the last play from the 50 against the Texans that was batted down into the hands of Mike Thomas. That was just a "heave it and pray" shot at the end zone that worked out.

That sounds like the very definition of a hail mary.

I wonder how much of what we see as random tips are controlled to keep the ball in play in favor of the defense.

how do they coach defenders to tip the ball? I know there are tip drills, just not sure how they work.

also 37-16 is a sound beating, a score like 21-20 might have some luck involved.
 
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The Jets were unlucky.

They drafted Sanchez 5th.:rofl:
 
One play that seemed like it was unlucky for the Jesters was Ninkovich's 1st interception that "tipped" off two guys before he caught it. They showed that play on the Turning Point show on Versus - I am becoming a big fan of their work.

That particular pass was thrown slightly behind Shonn Green by Sanchez and hit both of his hands in front of his face. Green should have caught that ball. That Ninkovich was the recipient of a tipped ball was indeed luck, but prior to that interception it was a turnover by Green.

The last big play that struck me as pure dumb luck was the 2010 Hail Mary by David Garrard on the last play from the 50 against the Texans that was batted down into the hands of Mike Thomas. That was just a "heave it and pray" shot at the end zone that worked out.

So doing a tip drill in practice, over and over, had nothing to do with it. It was just luck?

Coaches don't waste practice time on luck. Tipped balls are part of the game, there are several in every game, that is why they do the drills.

About 1/2 of TFB's int's this year were tipped balls. Some were TFB's fault and some were the receivers fault. But the defensive players are prepared for those tipped balls because they practice for them.
 
Getting lucky or being unlucky is loser talk. You either got the job done or you didn't. If the Jets drop 3 picks it is not unlucky, it is not making the plays.

Absolutely. No luck in both games this year, and no luck last January. Let's just hope for one game this January
 
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Absolutely. No luck in both games this year, and no luck last January. Let's just hope for one game this January

Appreciate most of your post. But I can't hope for another Jets game this January. That would totally contradict my hopes for a Jets loss tonight and my hope that the Jest lose all the rest of their games this year.:D
 
It's funny, there are still threads being started over Jets Insider that basically say that the Pats did absolutely nothing special to win the game and the Jets just handed it on a silver platter to them. Are Jets fans that petty that they cannot give the Pats credit for being them by three TDs? It's not like the Jets did any better in Foxboro against the Pats' offense (the Pats' offense scored 30 points just like this past Sunday and had nearly 500 yards of offense which is more than they had this past Sunday).

At least most of us gave the Jets credit for outplaying and outcoaching the Pats in the playoffs last year even if we cried about mistakes and luck.

The irony of it all is by claiming the Jets just gave away the game, they are admitting to everyone other than themselves that the Jets are not a great team and lack the mental toughness to compete in big games this year. Granted most of these Jets fans think that they will go 12-4 and go to the playoffs eventhough the Jets have yet to prove they can beat anyone good. The Jets are currently 2-4 against teams with winning records and the two teams the beat were Dallas (who are inconsistent and gave the game away to them) and Buffalo (who after going 4-0 to start the season have lost four of their last five games and getting worse every week).
 
It's funny, there are still threads being started over Jets Insider that basically say that the Pats did absolutely nothing special to win the game and the Jets just handed it on a silver platter to them. Are Jets fans that petty that they cannot give the Pats credit for being them by three TDs?

The irony of it all is by claiming the Jets just gave away the game, they are admitting to everyone other than themselves that the Jets are not a great team and lack the mental toughness to compete in big games this year. Granted most of these Jets fans think that they will go 12-4 and go to the playoffs eventhough the Jets have yet to prove they can beat anyone good. The Jets are currently 2-4 against teams with winning records and the two teams the beat were Dallas (who are inconsistent and gave the game away to them) and Buffalo (who after going 4-0 to start the season have lost four of their last five games and getting worse every week).

See above for credit. And some would say ( not I) the Pats have no quality wins either. Who cares? That garbage happens every year.
 
Jets fans are lost. Rexy & Tanny are running that org into the ground. Their system is solid; attack on D, run & spoon feed an erratic QB.

But, poor signings & drafting will make them irrelevant within 2 yrs.
 
I think you are trying to hard to make a distinction that really isn't all that meaningful. Missing a field goal is luck but stepping out of bounds isn't? Nonsense. The reality is that sometimes field goals get missed, even easy ones. Things like that happen in each and every game by both teams. Bad calls, strange bounces, uncharacteristic mistakes. They seem out of place in the context of that one individual player or game but overall the "lucky" plays are probably fairly consistent from game to game.

The loser's lament of "well that isn't going to happen again!" is probably true in the sense that that particular circumstance won't happen again, but chances are some other "luck" based adversity will. The question is how you react and recover from it. Good teams tend to deal with them better.

In truth, not only are "lucky" plays not consistent from game to game, they can actually remain skewed for large chunks of the season -- it can sometimes take 2 or 3 whole seasons for aberrant luck to revert to the mean. That said, assuming reversion to the mean is still always a more effective model for prediction.

The Jets, actually, have long been the poster-boy beneficiaries of this kind of luck. At some point last season, there was talk about Sanchez having shown improvement, as demonstrated by a dramatic drop in interception percentage. Someone at FootballOutsiders noticed that there had been a corresponding increase in passes defensed, went back and looked at the tape from the games, and determined that opposing defenders were getting their hands on Sanchez' passes just as often, they just happened not to be catching as many of them -- something that the Jets had no control of, and thereby, as far as they are concerned, luck.

Another example of quantifiable luck is opponent's adjusted FG%. Not counting blocked or tipped FG's, a team can expect opposing kickers to hit their field goals at a certain rate, depending on their avg. distance. A team whose opponents have made their field goals at a much lower-than-average rate over the first 8 games have been lucky, and have usually seen their points allowed per game go up a bit over the second half of the season. When evaluating a defense, the fact the distance of the field goal they force is important; whether that field goal gets made is not.

Another example of measurable luck is fumble recovery. As it happens, forcing fumbles is a repeatable skill -- recovering them is effectively random. I know commentators like to praise coaches for teaching awareness and drilling players to jump on loose balls, but there's no evidence that this has any actual affect. No team has ever been consistently better at recovering opposing team's fumbles. Every fumble has a certain likelihood of being recovered by the defense based on who fumbled and where. Strip-sacks are recoverad at a certain rate, bad snaps at a different rate, running backs' fumbles at the line at another rate, receivers' fumbles when being tackled at another. A team that fumbled the ball five times in a game and recovered all their own fumbles isn't better at recovering fumbles, they just got lucky. Conversely, after half the season, a good way to spot defenses that are bound to improve are ones that have forced a lot of fumbles, but been very unlucky in recovering them.

What's more, while interceptions are produced by skill, NFL history has demonstrated that what happens after them is effectively random. Now, an INT on a quick out is returned for a TD more more often than an interception on a hail mary, but for every 'type' of reception, there is an expected number of return yards depending on where on the field it occurs, and no NFL team has been consistently better at maximizing INT return yards than any other -- except one team, or more accurately, one player: Ed Reed. Ed Reed is the only player who has consistently gained more yards or scored more TDs off of interceptions than the predicted average in the last 15 years.

So, looking at the Jets/Pats game in terms of things that have been demonstrated to be luck, we see that the Pats recovered all the fumbles by either team, benefited from a surprising missed FG, and had an INT returned for a TD that (albeit one with a high expectation of being returned for a score.) In terms of the types of luck that can be quantified in the NFL, the Patriots were undeniably the luckier team in Sunday's game.

Equally undeniable, however, is that they seriously out-played the Jets. It wasn't bad luck that the Jets couldn't protect Sanchez or that he folded under the pressure. It was a combination of the Pats' actually rushing the passer well, and the Jets not blocking well. The Pats may have been fortunate to have 25 extra seconds on the clock before the half, but it sure wasn't 'luck' that they were able to drive down the field for a TD in a minute and half, and it wasn't luck that made the Jets unable to stop the Pats in the second half.
 
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