Merged again and again: I do/don't like the Moss trade because...

zeke mowatt said:

Fave/Moss vs arrington, chung, merriwether, mcourty, butler...........That should be fun to watch.

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I am not sure that Viking fans won't be regretting Favre coming back and trading for Moss by the end of the season. Favre's problems looked far more than him not having a deep threat so far.

I do/don't like the Moss trade because...

Umm, because I would rather win more games?

Rob0729 said:

The fact of the matter is that outside pass rushers are worth more than WRs. That is why a dominant outside pass rusher makes 50-75% more than a dominant WR.

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Really? (Not that burgess is a dominant anything)


Franchise tag amounts last year:

WR: 9.89M
DE: 8.91M
LB: 8.3M


The only tags higher than WR are QB, and CB, and CB is only 100K higher than WR.

captadamnj said:

Number of times teams WITH Randy Moss have won the Super Bowl in last 12 years - ZERO

Number of times the Patriots have won the Super Bowl WITHOUT Randy Moss in the last 12 years - THREE

'Nuff said. Go Pats 2010!

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Number of Patriots teams that have won the superbowl without J'Rod Cherry: Zero.


We're screwed.

Re: Trade makes no sense from any angle.......

OK...said this from the start. Moss was a unique talent and both BB and Brady were seduced by it. Unfortunately for all concerned, he was NEVER a good fit for this team from a system standpoint. High maintenance players and players who measure respect in $$$ simply don't fit. Hopefully that's a lesson learned by this FO going forward, despite continued incessent cries from the fanboy base for every talented malcontent who hits the market for just that reason...

Brady has one less target today, but he also has one less headache to deal with every freakin' week. No more dinners with Randy. No more post game pleading for mental toughness. No more having to find a way and take increasingly less rewarding risks to keep one player engaged and involved. There was a good reason they didn't tag him in 2008. They knew you don't force this guy to do anything, he had to make the decision to remain here of his own volition. He did, and now he wants out because he wants a new contract at 33 more than he wants to win. You don't tell that player tough noogies, you're stuck here and you better make the best of it because you've seen the mood swings and you've seen him disengage before and you can't allow that to drag down an entire team you just retooled to exclude the selfish, me-centric attitude that scoffs at team first.

Quit blaming BB for Randy's emotional shortcomings. There was no way you extend the 2009 version of Randy Moss at top of the market dollars. That is not the same player you took a shot on in 2007, and frankly he hasn't been that player since week 12 of 2007. Much like Richard Seymour hadn't been the impact player of 2004 since signing his extension in 2006 no matter how many times his defenders repeated the double team mantra, or just like Lawyer Milloy hadn't been an impact player since February 2002. You can't pay them for what they were, you pay them for what they are and what they project to yet be. Randy Moss had become an expensive decoy and maintaining production from him was increasingly becoming a cost ineffective proposition. The risk he posed to the entire organization in 2010 going forward once he requested a trade outweighed any potential reward they hoped he might yet based yeild based on the first four games of the 2010 season.

I get accused a lot of being a BB ballwasher. But I have been critical of this FO and organization on one account for a long time. I apprecaite why they can't coddle the divas, but they need to do a better job identifying the players they cannot retain and moving on from them for value before it becomes a last resort. No one player or talent is more important than the team, and the only guys worth investing in long term not only have talent but have the will to win here to embrace that philosophy.

Re: Trade makes no sense from any angle.......

MoLewisrocks said:

OK...said this from the start. Moss was a unique talent and both BB and Brady were seduced by it. Unfortunately for all concerned, he was NEVER a good fit for this team from a system standpoint. High maintenance players and players who measure respect in $$$ simply don't fit. Hopefully that's a lesson learned by this FO going forward, despite continued incessent cries from the fanboy base for every talented malcontent who hits the market for just that reason.

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Since when was Moss high maintenance? He's been pretty much a perfect citizen for 3 years, while putting up ridiculous numbers at below market.

Re: Trade makes no sense from any angle.......

I liked because saves 6 M to Kraft to expend in another prority like... Joey Galloway, or Torry Holt, or something like that . lol .

Re: Trade makes no sense from any angle.......

Synovia said:

Since when was Moss high maintenance? He's been pretty much a perfect citizen for 3 years, while putting up ridiculous numbers at below market.

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Yeah. Moss has been a good soldier. recently was mildly disgruntled. But by and large, he was solid.

Lets not try to paint him as a malcontent now.

maybe BB thinks moss and favre combination may win this week against the jets. u never know how BB thinks......
btw i loved it when moss was with the pats

Synovia said:

Really? (Not that burgess is a dominant anything)


Franchise tag amounts last year:

WR: 9.89M
DE: 8.91M
LB: 8.3M


The only tags higher than WR are QB, and CB, and CB is only 100K higher than WR.

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Look at what Julius Peppers, Demarcus Ware, and Elvis Dumervil got vs. Brandon Marshall vs. any other WR. The last few years, the money given to outside pass rushers have far eclipsed the money the WRs have been getting. The salary structure of the contracts and when players get paid could impact the franchise tag money for positions though. Look at Randy Moss. He was in the top 5 in his position and his salary vs. the cap is virtually the same every year. Ware, Peppers, and Dumervill had multiple season bonus payouts.

If this is not followed by a trade for Vjax this is the worst move BB has made by a country mile. At least they got a first for Branch.

Oh well. I guess BB thinks he can turn back the clock and win with dink and dunk. I mean honestly without Moss you can't effectively run the same offense can you? But I guess it makes sense. Why keep running the highest scoring offense in the NFL. That's definitely something you want to tinker with a quarter way through the season.

I swear this makes zero sense. Moss must have been banging Gisselle or something.

I'm OK with this trade: here is why

I'll start out by saying I'm very sad to see Randy go. But let's put emotion aside for a moment and consider the following:

(1). It's been reported that Moss asked for a trade after week one. He's already agitated publicly (press conference after Cincy game) and we don't know what's been happening in the locker room or elsewhere behind closed doors.

(2). The Patriots apparently were not prepared to give him a lucrative extension of one to three years and I can understand why. Moss is 33 and not what he used to be even three years ago. He is NOT the dominating force on the field that a $9 million per year superstar rate would seem to suggest -- i.e., beating double coverage, fighting for balls, giving up his body, and moving the chains in addition to stretching the field. More and more he has devolved into a high-priced decoy.

(3). It's plausible to suggest that minus an extension here, Moss was prepared to shoot his way out of town. And when he got wind of the Vikings possibly wanting him back, the writing was on the wall.

(4). So, BB was faced with three options: (A.) cave in and give him an extension, which the team doesn't believe he's worth over the next one to three years, (B.) maintain status quo and risk him turning into a malcontent/locker room cancer, or (C.) cut the losses and ship him out for something in return.

(5). The passing game will continue to thrive without Moss through an altered scheme. Brady will spread the ball around more to Tate, Price, the young tight ends, Welker as usual, and Woodhead out of the backfield. The running game has been surprisingly productive and will provide needed balance to help keep our young, developing defense off the field.

(6). REMEMBER Lawyer Milloy.

You've got to ask the question: why would the Patriots make a "bad" move? And I agree that Moss for a third-rounder looks bad. But Moss was not happy and we all know that an unhappy Randy Moss is bad, bad news for any team. He asked his agent to request a trade, for heaven sakes! I don't fault BB/Kraft for this, at all. And I look forward to the 2011 draft with two picks in each of the first four rounds.

Re: Trade makes no sense from any angle.......

Synovia said:

Since when was Moss high maintenance? He's been pretty much a perfect citizen for 3 years, while putting up ridiculous numbers at below market.

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Corey Dillon was a good soldier his first year or two he was here and was a pain in the arse his last year. That could be the case with Moss. He could have been a good citizen before this year and become a lockerroom problem this year. His press conference was not a good sign. Reports he asked for a trade and he had Belichick had words yesterday is another. Moss has a history of melting down his last year with a team and he cannot be happy in a contract year that he has 130 yards in four games.

Who knows? It could be Patriots spin, but it also could be Moss did exactly what he did in Minnesota and Oakland and become a problem even if it wasn't major.

How can one be happy about this trade?

If Moss left as a FA, NE would have probably received a 3rd round in 2012. So, without jeopardizing this year's prospects, you would net a 3rd rounder compensatory pick a year later. Is it worth taking the risk of being beaten at home with the Vikings, and more importantly, losing Moss's services for 12 games and the play offs for a 3rd rounder in 2011.

This is the mastermind SELLING LOW!

IllegalContact said:

I'd be willing to bet that this doesn't happen without brady being in the loop.

in fact, I think the opposite will happen in that brady will become rejuvenated working with the young guys.
.

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I think so too, because Brady often emphasizes that he excited about the team this year to see what we can do. He said that since training camp and after the Monday night game, and Moss got zero catches. Brady was pumped and seem really happy about it too.

Like in the Jets game, Brady seem to forced the ball to Moss a lot while other guys are wide open. Deep down I think Brady want this to happen too so he can throw to whoever is open.

Moss isn't really a Pats type of player. He is a me-first whiner and prima donna from the get-go (just like some of the other #1 WRs). But if he scores 22 TDs , BB can put up with it. As his play declined and his contract-related whining increased, the trade-off became less and less attractive. Yesterday BB woke up and said "that's it!". That has to be what happened here IMO.

Re: I'm OK with this trade: here is why

The one hole in the Lawyer Milloy point is that Rodney Harrison was waiting in the wings. There is a much bigger question mark as to who takes Moss' spot. Besides that, very good points.

I hope and pray we get blown out by Baltimore and Tom Jackson spouts off "They hate their coach" again.

Re: I'm OK with this trade: here is why

thats the only consolation I have:

if Moss wanted to leave, then fine, get whatever you can

if he did NOT want to leave....this is stupid

Re: Trade makes no sense from any angle.......

Rob0729 said:

Corey Dillon was a good soldier his first year or two he was here and was a pain in the arse his last year. That could be the case with Moss. He could have been a good citizen before this year and become a lockerroom problem this year. His press conference was not a good sign. Reports he asked for a trade and he had Belichick had words yesterday is another. Moss has a history of melting down his last year with a team and he cannot be happy in a contract year that he has 130 yards in four games.

Who knows? It could be Patriots spin, but it also could be Moss did exactly what he did in Minnesota and Oakland and become a problem even if it wasn't major.

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The very fact that you say Who knows, tells you we don't. I know what my eyes tell me -- Moss is an elite receiver. Trading him for a mere trade rounder 3rd rounder is mystifying.Why jeopardize this year?

Hopefully now that Moss is gone we will see more screen passes, something this team was universally known for not too long ago.