Defense wins championships

[AzPatsFan]

I think Belichick is too stuck on the 'Bend don't break' type of defense because he likes playing the percentages. But if you don't have a team that can consistently get off the field on 3rd down and stop the run when they know the run is coming it won't work.

I think Belichick is unparalleled at team building but I really wish he would bring in a DC who would put in a different system. This season was the first decent defense we've had in a long, long time, but I'm not 100% confident we'll be improved next season especially if Talib walks.

The game has changed and aggressive, attacking defenses win championships. Letting the other team rack up yards like you're Ali going for the Rope-a-Dope defense doesn't work anymore.

Nonsense, This is one of the youngest Defenses in he league considering who played, It started to turn the corner and gained a little experience, Next season with ZERO changes it will be better still.

It isn't a question of passiveness but playing sound football. The measure of the "atackingness" or passivity is the turnovers. This Defense as it has been being built has had very high turnover production for three seasons. Can't you anticiapte anyhting?

You sound like the generals who are always fighting the LAST war, not the next.

As for the WRs, they will be much better with ZERO additions just because of the experience factor.

I can see BB investing in the lines and I'm not sure where it is more important to do so. Scarnecchcia has several good sized players gaining experience like Cannon, Zucevics, Wendell (as a swing/sub), Kline and tackles Lattes and Cave. I don't know when or if they will ever be ready.

Just remember that BB says, I draft LTs, and move them to G or if smart to C as well, if they can't cut it as LTs or RTs. He has a pair or three of Probowl quality tackles already. That means he no longer needs to draft them high. He would be happy with the 5th or 6th best tackle, not a #1 G/C.

On the DL even if Siliga and Chris Jones are only going to be scrubs, but I think they outplayed that level as first time starters. Armstead is still there, and Velano is a second string but depth. Pork chop is an unknown, but the Texas guy who built the Cowboys thinks highly of him. At DE Chandler, Ninko and Carter are three. But Carter has only a year or two left, So in the next few years BB will need DL linemen.

So does BB draft DLs to groom for tomorrow ,or OLs for now? Depends on whats there, but two linemen and a TE, (or a big WR/move TE, with the first three picks seems reasonable.

I agree that he will probably bring in a vet TE and draft one too. That is his M.O. Will it be a real TE or a H-back like APerp?

 

[Dutchmaster617]

They say SEA had the worst passing game in SB winners history.

Interesting.

 

[Joker]

proves "they" are football mongoloids...

 

[mgteich]

I think that the 2000-2001 BALT team has a worse passing team, and also was dominated by their defense. I would take Seattle's passing game over theirs any day.

They say SEA had the worst passing game in SB winners history.

Interesting.

 

[fnordcircle]

Too much emphasis on the last 2 weeks right now.

Yeah you're right. People have only been saying 'defense wins championships' for the last two weeks.

And the Patriots defense being awful is only a phenomenon that occurred in January 2014.

This is definitely some knee jerk bull**** on our part.

 

[primetime]

Not sure there's any one path to winning in the NFL, despite the 'defense wins championships' narrative. Offense, defense - in the end, it's both... and then it's luck to a large extent in each individual playoff game.

 

[mgteich]

just a nitpick

How many sacks did Seattle have?

They needed to cover and get tot he play immediately. They needed to stop the run.

They didn't need blitzes and sacks. They proved that they could be disruptive.

Having a 2nd year QB making under a million allowed them to bring in Bennett and Avril (Harvin, too). They were already stacked and they added Avril and Bennett - 2/15 for Avril, Bennett for under 5 for this year alone (although they just said he's a priority for next year). So they got Avril, Bennett AND Russ Wilson for under 13 million.

I still remember BB a few years ago saying that sacks were overrated. Against many teams, bend don't break might work, but against a team like Denver, if you don't keep Manning off his mark, you're dead. Same when you play against Brady. Get in his face.

I also think it's scheme more than personnel. You need ferocious pass rushers, and lots of them, to beat the top QBs. Turn 'em loose.

 

[Deus Irae]

4 of the last 5 SB winners scored more than 30 points.
6 of the last 8 SB winners scored more than 25 points.
17 of the last 23 SB winners scored more than 25 points.
14 of the last 23 SB winners scored 30 or more points.
12 of the last 23 SB winners were top 6 or better in offensive scoring.
Only 5 of the last 23 SB winners were not in the top 10 in offensive scoring.


It's not defense winning championships.

 

[manxman2601]

Yeah you're right. People have only been saying 'defense wins championships' for the last two weeks.

And the Patriots defense being awful is only a phenomenon that occurred in January 2014.

This is definitely some knee jerk bull**** on our part.

Do you think this defense was awful at the start of the year? I thought it was borderline outstanding. Talib and McCourty were shutting down all and sundry and Jones and Kelly were constant threats.

 

[Marqui]

4 of the last 5 SB winners scored more than 30 points.
6 of the last 8 SB winners scored more than 25 points.
17 of the last 23 SB winners scored more than 25 points.
14 of the last 23 SB winners scored 30 or more points.
12 of the last 23 SB winners were top 6 or better in offensive scoring.
Only 5 of the last 23 SB winners were not in the top 10 in offensive scoring.


It's not defense winning championships.

Are you saying defense doesn't contribute to putting points on the board?

 

[condon84]

Defensive line pressure was the difference. Peyton was never comfortable.

We lost to the Giants because of DL pressure. We need DL pressure to be a legit SB defense.

 

[supafly]

just a nitpick

How many sacks did Seattle have?

They needed to cover and get tot he play immediately. They needed to stop the run.

They didn't need blitzes and sacks. They proved that they could be disruptive.

One could even make a reasonable enough case that excellent coverage gets you further, especially against QBs who tend to have a quick release like Manning. After all, it was SEA's excellent coverage, (along with our good coverage in the past) which has allowed for that extra .5--1 second to have a realistic shot of getting to him.

It's no coincidence that Patricia and Belichick went to 3 man rushes once Talib went down. Our chances of actually getting to Manning were slim and none without excellent coverage.

Not meaning to say that strong passrushers aren't important, b/c they are, but one could make an argument that proper coverage is the way to go just as well; and maybe even harder to achieve in terms of personnel. The truth is that it's a combination of both, but there are arguments for either side.

FWIW--I saw a stat today that in Manning's last 30 games when he's been sacked 2 or more times he is 6-24, with a .200 winning percentage.

 

[Wilfork#75]

The difference between the Pats defense and Seattle's is that the Seahawks have a very clear defensive identity and philosophy that they have been able to draft and develop players specifically for. They know what they do and they don't try to change or adapt it, they just try to outplay you. The Pats defense on the other hand is constantly changing and evolving depending on the opposition and the situation. They keep some basic concepts but it is generally different week to week to best combat the opposition. That works great if you have the talent and versatility to be able to match up with a number of different schemes, but it also limits the ceiling of the defense because you don't have guys specializing in certain areas. I think this defensive philosophy will always keep the Pats in the game and give them a chance, but it will never be dominant and win big games for them, putting a lot of pressure on Brady.

I have no problem with the Pats defensive philosophy because it has been successful over the last decade, but what I do think we need is a few playmakers that when necessary can just go out there and beat their man. I think Chandler Jones has that potential, I would love another DE opposite him that can do the same (Michael Johnson would be an ideal fit) as well as an interior pass rusher that can create pressure up the middle (Aaron Donald?). The scheme and philosophy can largely stay the same, but in the big moments we would have those guys that can step up and make plays.

 

[Marqui]

Defensive line pressure was the difference. Peyton was never comfortable.

We lost to the Giants because of DL pressure. We need DL pressure to be a legit SB defense.

Well we have the great Rob Ninkovich for that.

 

[Deus Irae]

Are you saying defense doesn't contribute to putting points on the board?

No, I'm saying that top teams win Super Bowls. Top offenses win SBs. Top defenses win SBs. The data's out there, for anyone who cares to look. Sometimes a top offensive team with a lesser defense wins the SB. Sometimes a top defensive team with a lesser offense wins the SB. More often, though, it's a team that's good at both that ends up winning the SB.

 

[Wilfork#75]

One last thing on the Seattle defense, the thing they did tonight and the thing they do better than any other team in the NFL is tackle. It seems like such a basic thing but they didn't give Denver any easy yards. I don't know how many times the extra effort and intensity in their tackling stopped 1st downs. That is something I think the Pats really need to improve upon because far too many times this season our defenders put themselves in positions to make plays but couldn't do it. Tackling is one of the most basic elements of football, but tonight Seattle showed just how important it is.

 

[Joker]

I knew before I logged on tonight that this would all turn into a Patriots bashfest. It's
just script now.

The Patriots didn't play anybody tonight. They had nothing to do with how this game played out. Denver beat the Patriots two weeks therefore the Patriots are REAL REAL BAD. Idiocy. Dinkbrained logic at its worst.

 

[supafly]

Well we have the great Rob Ninkovich for that.

Ninkovich is certainly "good enough" to be a force at times, but obviously will likely never amount to much of a force opposite Chandler Jones on a consistent enough basis.

That doesn't mean he's worthless of course, as he adds versatility and the ability to do different things. I'm actually glad that we extended him. I just agree with you that we need a better DE, at least for rotational reps in passing/obvious passrushing situations.

 

[supafly]

One last thing on the Seattle defense, the thing they did tonight and the thing they do better than any other team in the NFL is tackle. It seems like such a basic thing but they didn't give Denver any easy yards. I don't know how many times the extra effort and intensity in their tackling stopped 1st downs. That is something I think the Pats really need to improve upon because far too many times this season our defenders put themselves in positions to make plays but couldn't do it. Tackling is one of the most basic elements of football, but tonight Seattle showed just how important it is.

I definitely agree with you there.

That said, it's probably easier to say than achieve, as they have excellent talent on that side of the ball. While we have some good players, there's obviously no comparison on many levels.

I don't think we're that far off from doing it in a different fashion though, as attempting to replicate SEA's defense would be a futile effort. It would be nice to see some of those fundamental areas addressed, however. Tacking has indeed been an issue at times.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

No, I'm saying that top teams win Super Bowls. Top offenses win SBs. Top defenses win SBs. The data's out there, for anyone who cares to look. Sometimes a top offensive team with a lesser defense wins the SB. Sometimes a top defensive team with a lesser offense wins the SB. More often, though, it's a team that's good at both that ends up winning the SB.

And that's why we need a complimentary d for Tom. Tom can do his magic and score points, but the defense also has to create turnovers, and make key stops.

Tom is a major piece to the puzzle, but the D is the most critical in winning a championship.