Defense wins championships

[Kontradiction]

I agree. We have a fair amount of talent on the defense, but we need a more aggressive and more physical approach. I think there's a failure of coaching, heresy though that may be.

We need a DE like Chandler Jones on the other side of Chandler.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

After watching that game tonight the Pats seem miles away on that side of the ball.

Hopefully some good things to come in the next few years...

Was thinking the same thing. What's scary is the Seahawks are young and will be good for years to come but if they stumble the second best team in the NFL just may be the San Fran 49'ers.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm a huge BB fan and nobody can deny his incredible record here with New England. But he definitely has a certain style of defense that he likes to play, no question about it. I do not doubt that if Carroll had this Patriots' defense, assuming everyone was healthy, that he'd have tremendous success with it. There definitely is talent there.

When everyone was healthy, we had a top five D that could rush the passer up the A and B gaps. The problem was injuries, and that tends to happen when you sign injury prone players.

 

[upstater1]

You need an aggressive take the game to the offense kind of a defense, not a passive reactionary one.

It all starts with the scheme and trickles down from there.

We've had this thread repeatedly over the years. Sometimes that top defense gets shredded by an offense and a gameplan. Top defenses have won the SB in the past, but so have top offenses. It's not one or the other (though it may be defenses more often). Just try to get both.

As for Belichick's style of defense, the Patriots won 3 and were two miracle catches away from 2 more. Hard to argue with that.

Too much emphasis on the last 2 weeks right now.

 

[reflexblue]

We've had this thread repeatedly over the years. Sometimes that top defense gets shredded by an offense and a gameplan. Top defenses have won the SB in the past, but so have top offenses. It's not one or the other (though it may be defenses more often). Just try to get both.

As for Belichick's style of defense, the Patriots won 3 and were two miracle catches away from 2 more. Hard to argue with that.

Too much emphasis on the last 2 weeks right now.

If you go back in history its only recently that top offenses win, and its only been a few. You only need an average offense to win a SB when you have a great defense. Just go back to the Patriots early SBs

 

[manxman2601]

We've had this thread repeatedly over the years. Sometimes that top defense gets shredded by an offense and a gameplan. Top defenses have won the SB in the past, but so have top offenses. It's not one or the other (though it may be defenses more often). Just try to get both.

As for Belichick's style of defense, the Patriots won 3 and were two miracle catches away from 2 more. Hard to argue with that.

Too much emphasis on the last 2 weeks right now.

This x 1,000.

 

[upstater1]

If you go back in history its only recently that top offenses win, and its only been a few. You only need an average offense to win a SB when you have a great defense. Just go back to the Patriots early SBs

I was referring to the Patriots SBs. Carolina had a top defense. Patriots had a top defense. Both defenses were shredded by the offenses. Patriots D gave up 29 points in 30 minutes. Carolina's D gave up almost 500 yards, Brady threw for about 350 and that makes for one of the top 5 performances for a QB all-time.

 

[ATippett56]

If you go back in history its only recently that top offenses win, and its only been a few. You only need an average offense to win a SB when you have a great defense. Just go back to the Patriots early SBs

Yup!

Also, I'm not willing to pin my hopes on a 33 year old defensive tackle recovering from ACL surgery and a 32 year old defensive tackle recovering from Achilles Tendon surgery.

 

[obgod3]

Yep so this says it all we won't see the Pats win another SB without a great defense. Not going happen. Fix the defense or Brady is done.

Let get down to it in SB history what was it? The 11 times the #1 defense met the #1 offense and the defense if now 10-1.....done


Unless I'm wrong which I could be, I'm drunk and living in Denver and trying to be a good guy..ha ha ha ha ha

 

[Hael]

We had a pretty good defense this year, it would have been a top 5 or 6 D if we had not had the injuries.

As far as I can see, its not defenses that win championships, its avoiding the injury bug.

Seattle was mediocre for most of the early season having been hit pretty bad by injuries, but lucked out and got most of their guys healthy right when it counted most. We were healthy in the preseason, and then it was more a less a comedy of which bigname player would drop next.

 

[obgod3]

We had a pretty good defense this year, it would have been a top 5 or 6 D if we had not had the injuries.

As far as I can see, its not defenses that win championships, its avoiding the injury bug.

Seattle was mediocre for most of the early season having been hit pretty bad by injuries, but lucked out and got most of their guys healthy right when it counted most. We were healthy in the preseason, and then it was more a less a comedy of which bigname player would drop next.

Sorry calling you out, that Seattle defense was sick good all seasons, to even slight them is an insult, too bad our guy BB doesn't get it anymore. We only wish the pats had something like that, they are not even close.

 

[SalemPats]

Seattle had probably the best safety in the game in Earl Thomas and another great one in Cam Chancellor, to go along with a solid pass rush and very good run defense.

BB is building an elite defense and with Brady we can win it all

 

[Hael]

Yes it was, but their offense was decimated by injuries in the Oline and receiver area. Almost every game was close b/c they couldn't put up points, and Wilson was having to create plays on his feet for huge swaths of the early season.

Of course once they got everyone healthy you could really see that SF and Seattle were simply the best teams in the NFL by a country mile (SF had a similar trajectory with injuries as well).

Meanwhile we were decimated in both offense and defense, and unlike Seattle and SF, our guys were more or less instantly IR'd.

 

[primetime]

Seattle's defense was built by drafting extraordinarily well in the secondary and for linebackers and spending in free agency for defensive linemen using money that's available when your team is only spending $800k on a quarterback.

The Patriots had two stud defensive ends who were completely shot at the end of the year because they played 95% of the defensive snaps and no backups. Their interior linemen - post injuries - were merely fine.

The Seahawks, meanwhile, featured four edge rushers in Avril, Irvin, Bennett, and Clemons - three of whom were signed to post-rookie deals, and one of whom was a 1st round pick - who could have started on any team in the league, and three interior players in Mebane, Bryant, and McDaniel - all of whom were post-rookie contract - who could have done likewise. This rotation where none of the guys play more than half the snaps kept everyone fresh for the entire year.

Not sure the secondary success can be replicated except by blind luck, though.

 

[upstater1]

Sorry calling you out, that Seattle defense was sick good all seasons, to even slight them is an insult, too bad our guy BB doesn't get it anymore. We only wish the pats had something like that, they are not even close.

Seattle had a tougher time than normal back in October when players were injured. Remember them giving up 30 odd points to Indianapolis? Tampa and Arizona were mid 20s as well. Before that, and after that, Seattle's D was great, but the players were healthy.

 

[upstater1]

Seattle's defense was built by drafting extraordinarily well in the secondary and for linebackers and spending in free agency for defensive linemen using money that's available when your team is only spending $800k on a quarterback.

The Patriots had two stud defensive ends who were completely shot at the end of the year because they played 95% of the defensive snaps and no backups. Their interior linemen - post injuries - were merely fine.

The Seahawks, meanwhile, featured four edge rushers in Avril, Irvin, Bennett, and Clemons - three of whom were signed to post-rookie deals, and one of whom was a 1st round pick - who could have started on any team in the league, and three interior players in Mebane, Bryant, and McDaniel - all of whom were post-rookie contract - who could have done likewise. This rotation where none of the guys play more than half the snaps kept everyone fresh for the entire year.

Not sure the secondary success can be replicated except by blind luck, though.

It definitely seems to be blind luck. I mean, Richard Sherman's own college coach didn't think to draft him before the 5th round, which is weird.

 

[patsinthesnow]

The Saints in 2009 won the SB with the #1 scoring offense in the league.

The Seahawks defense is uncomparable. They drafted the best CB in the league with a 5th round pick. Since their QB makes less than 1 million, they can sign Avril/Bennett to bolster the pass rush.

Constructing a Seahawks defense is nearly impossible with a QB making 12+ million a year.

 

[50-yard-line]

Seattle's defense was built by drafting extraordinarily well in the secondary and for linebackers and spending in free agency for defensive linemen using money that's available when your team is only spending $800k on a quarterback.

The Patriots had two stud defensive ends who were completely shot at the end of the year because they played 95% of the defensive snaps and no backups. Their interior linemen - post injuries - were merely fine.

The Seahawks, meanwhile, featured four edge rushers in Avril, Irvin, Bennett, and Clemons - three of whom were signed to post-rookie deals, and one of whom was a 1st round pick - who could have started on any team in the league, and three interior players in Mebane, Bryant, and McDaniel - all of whom were post-rookie contract - who could have done likewise. This rotation where none of the guys play more than half the snaps kept everyone fresh for the entire year.

Not sure the secondary success can be replicated except by blind luck, though.

Having a 2nd year QB making under a million allowed them to bring in Bennett and Avril (Harvin, too). They were already stacked and they added Avril and Bennett - 2/15 for Avril, Bennett for under 5 for this year alone (although they just said he's a priority for next year). So they got Avril, Bennett AND Russ Wilson for under 13 million.

I still remember BB a few years ago saying that sacks were overrated. Against many teams, bend don't break might work, but against a team like Denver, if you don't keep Manning off his mark, you're dead. Same when you play against Brady. Get in his face.

I also think it's scheme more than personnel. You need ferocious pass rushers, and lots of them, to beat the top QBs. Turn 'em loose.

 

[primetime]

It definitely seems to be blind luck. I mean, Richard Sherman's own college coach didn't think to draft him before the 5th round, which is weird.

The draft is really an educated crapshoot.

 

[primetime]

I still remember BB a few years ago saying that sacks were overrated

I thought Mebane was the game's MVP but I'm not certain he recorded a single counting statistic. Despite this, it seemed the entire game he disrupted screen passes, was in Manning's face, forced bad throws on crossing patterns, and destroyed run plays.