Yes, even Mike Reiss can't defend or explain BB's draft reaches

[patsfan-1982]

McCourty was drafted in the hopes of him being a #1 corner. Him being demoted to safety but remaining a starter is not a credit to that particular draft selection.

coming out of the Draft McCourty was seen as a great ST/KR who could turn into a good #2 CB if he was seen as a sure fire #1 CB he would have went in the top 10 and not at the bottom of round one, he had a great rookie season then had a lil set back in year two but last year he was one of the better FS in the NFL,


am not going to sit here and say I love every move the pats make and BB and the front office can do no wrong but I also understand that every pick the pats make is not going to go into the patriots HOF

 

[BelichickFan]

One of the reporters with excellent access in the Pats organization

and with the limited information I have

So, there you go. Your premise is invalid. Reiss has limited (read : little or none, same as you and me). So this thread is . . . worthless.

 

[Coach42]

Where you say talent, I say experience and smarts. Our defensive issues have more to do with correctly reading and reacting and knowing what to do than lack of talent. You can't throw complex coverages at guys when they can't master the simple stuff. This is why BB has always preferred veterans. In our glory years, we had guys who understood and bought into the style of defense we play. As such we were able to get very complex with our alignments and coverage packages. With young players, it takes time. There is a learning curve.

It absolutely had to do with talent. That's why they traded for Talib. If the talent was there then they never would have given up a 4th rounder for less than a full season of a player.

 

[patsinthesnow]

1) Although commonly done so, yards allowed is not a good way to judge a defense. With the Patriots, that has more to do with scheme and philosophy than talent. We play a lot of vanilla coverages and give up a lot of garbage time yards.
BB's philosophy has always been more predicated on forcing turnovers and keeping them off the scoreboard. Our defenses have actually performed quite well in these areas. I don't have the rankings in front of me but in the past three years I'd guesstimate that we rank somewhere in the vicinity of 8-10 in points allowed and 1-3 in takeaways. I actually think we may be #1 in that category. Doing it one year could be fluky. Consistently ranking high in the top five is a pattern. Our defense deserves more credit than they've been given. In our postseason losses, its been Brady and the offense that have underwhelmed.....not the defense.

2) As for the Harmon pick, I don't see the mystery. BB has a relationship with Schiano who used to be his coach. While 30 other teams "may" have had him off their radar, BB figured that Schiano didn't and that he would have to grab him where he did or risk losing him to TB. Whether those assumptions were accurate or not, nobody knows, but it was certainly a reasonable thought process. Why is this point so hidden to most?

3) We've got a ton of young talent on this team, including the defense. We've transitioned from a veteran team to this youth movement while consistently competing the whole time. No other team does this. The proof is in the results. Listening to some of these posters, you'd think we were like the Eagles or one of these teams suffering through 6-10 seasons. HELLO PEOPLE!!! WE'VE GOT THE BEST RECORD IN THE NFL OVER THE PAST THREE SEASONS!!! GET A GRIP!!!

Not to pick on you, but I think this is a good opportunity to dispell this notion or atleast discuss it. Explain this?

2009 defense:
11th yardage (320.2ypg)

2008 defense:
10th yardage (309ypg)

2007 defense:
4th yardage (288.3ypg)

2006 defense:
6th yardage (294.4ypg)

2005 defense*
26th yardage (330.2ypg)

2004 defense
9th yardage (310.8ypg)

2003 defense:
7th yardage (290.6ypg)

*Massive injuries across the defense

BB's defenses never got shredded through the air/in general like they do 2010-present yardage wise. What happened? The Pats offense argument is weak since the 2007 defense was the best for yardage in the BB era.

 

[edboc]

I think part of the reasoning behind why the team picks players from programs where they have familiarity with the coaches is somewhat related to how the coaches from these programs teach fundamentals, techniques, game strategy, philosophies, strength & conditioning program, etc. There must be some thinking that similar football teaching from college coaches may translate into an easier/faster transition for a player to your own pro program.

 

[ausbacker]

Given the nature of the questions put to Reiss, you have to wonder if the readers follow the Patriots. Ridiculous is the best word I can come up with given the propositions and inferences in regards to the Patriots drafting.

Hi Mike, the Patriots are crap at drafting. They always reach and we have no good players. Why?

They might as well come out and say that.

 

[jsull87]

McCourty was drafted in the hopes of him being a #1 corner. Him being demoted to safety but remaining a starter is not a credit to that particular draft selection.

Thats BS. He was a PB pick as a rookie and had a poor year when safety play was shonkey behind him (not all their fault tho).

He was playing well again last year at CB but it was better for the team to have him at FS than at CB.

The pick was a very good one and i don't think that is debatable. 14 int's 43 pd's 251 tackles and a sack agree with me. He is the unquestioned leader of our secondary and has spent the last two years especially cleaning up other peoples mistakes especially the safety play when he is at CB.

 

[ausbacker]

Thats BS. He was a PB pick as a rookie and had a poor year when safety play was shonkey behind him (not all their fault tho).

He was playing well again last year at CB but it was better for the team to have him at FS than at CB.

The pick was a very good one and i don't think that is debatable. 14 int's 43 pd's 251 tackles and a sack agree with me. He is the unquestioned leader of our secondary and has spent the last two years especially cleaning up other peoples mistakes especially the safety play when he is at CB.

McCourty, whilst having his share of issues has been perennially undervalued by the wider Patriots community. He's been very good for the Patriots and I cringe to think how bad the Secondary would have been without him.

 

[Fencer]

Reiss implies that he has limited sourcing for the theory that the Harmon pick wasn't favored by BB's staff, and even less for the theory that other teams wouldn't have picked Harmon for soon after where the Patriots did.

Nothing to see here until the reporting is more solid.

However, Reiss' own skills or lack thereof at player evaluation aren't very relevant.

 

[Urgent]

Last year the week of the draft, many folks here were disappointed in the Tavon Wilson pick and delighted with the Dennard pick. They felt Wilson was a big reach and Dennard a great value.

I think at the end of the year, the majority view proved more accurate. Wilson played himself onto the bench, and Dennard played himself onto the field.

This site is not peopled with idiots. A number of folks pay attention.

For every "most wins in the NFL" argument the "worst passing defense in the NFL" can be trotted out. The repeated frustration is that Belichick the coach and Brady the QB make up for some GM/personnel mistakes. But for those, the "most wins" might be "most trophies."

I don't recall any of the draft-compulsives calling out Harmon before this week. And these guys go three and four hundred players deep.

I echo the comments, such as mgteich's, that if you can't offer criticism, what's a place like this for anyway?

 

[chasa]

its going to be really hard to keep rooting for the pats if they keep drafting like they have and only win between 11 and 16 games each year with at least a home playoff game.

 

[Nunchucks]

Maybe this is a sign that mccourty is not destined to play saftey afterall.

 

[eom]

its going to be really hard to keep rooting for the pats if they keep drafting like they have and only win between 11 and 16 games each year with at least a home playoff game.

all brady -- entire rest are garbage.
except that one year when it was all cassel.

 

[scout]

BB has had plenty of ammo to create a competent defense in the last five years. He hasn't. He's had a full decade-plus to create the transition. He has full or at least major control over all of the personnel moves that have contributed to the terrible performance of the defense.


Just take a step back homers, and stop trying to justify every move through the eyes of Belichick.

Belichick is the GM who single-handedly drafted and helped coach all of the players who have contributed to league-worst defenses in the last several years. Please try and spin this as BB having a great eye for defensive talent and coaching it up over these years.

The buck starts and stops with BB. He has to coach up his own choices. His performance review on the defense is the end result over the past several years. It's been less than "genius."

He only had the ammunition, because he traded up and down (low draft picks/record)
What teams were better in that five year span?
I guess we'll scrutinize those teams draft picks.....go for it.

 

[patsfan13]

its going to be really hard to keep rooting for the pats if they keep drafting like they have and only win between 11 and 16 games each year with at least a home playoff game.

Exactly right, I mean Pete Prisco and Mel Kiper mock us and we never get an A for OUR draft.

How humiliating, now I hear that the Jets have their own pedicurist, how do we compete with THAT?

I mean Giselle won't even let Tom take his Uggs off in the house while the Sanchize is running around the beach barefoot, and Rex is killing it in the draft and winning another off season championship.

To top it off we were 9th in point allowed with the youngest D in the league, and only made it to the AFCCG, how much more can we take?


Maybe I should become a Jags fan....

 

[chasa]

brady might as well retire, bro couldnt even break 5k yards last year, what a chump.

 

[Rob0729]

McCourty was drafted in the hopes of him being a #1 corner. Him being demoted to safety but remaining a starter is not a credit to that particular draft selection.

First, it wasn't a demotion. Whether if fans like McCourty or not, Belichick loves the guy. He values his leadership and smarts and he feels that those traits could be better used at safety. Belichick doesn't view safety as a demotion at all. I guarantee you he would take one Rodney Harrison over ten Ty Laws. I think he feels the safety is the captain of the defensive backfield and the glue that holds the secondary together.

Second, if McCourty becomes a Pro Bowl safety, is he a bad pick late in the first round. I think he was drafted lower than Meriweather in the first round.

 

[Sfpat]

I don't recall any of the draft-compulsives calling out Harmon before this week. And these guys go three and four hundred players deep.

QUOTE]

A quick search of Patsfan shows that the first time Harmon's name appeared on this site was..........just after he was picked

 

[Rob0729]

The idea that Belichick has a bunch of yes men who don't stand up to him is a myth. We know McDaniels has no problem standing up to him when he knows he is right. I am pretty sure Caserio has enough clout in the War Room to speak his mind if he disagrees with Belichick. He seemed to be driving the trade out of the first round based on the video.

There are certainly guys who will speak their minds if they disagree with Belichick's moves. Doesn't mean Belichick listens to them. Supposedly, Pioli had more clout than anyone, but Belichick overruled his objections to Chad Jackson. I assume that there are times Belichick will listen to the advise of others and other times he won't.

For all we know, the entire War Room could have loved Harmon and truly backed the pick.

 

[borg]

All spring, both Reiss and Kraft happened to be delivering similar messages. Reiss would front run the Patriots position regarding the Welker saga and Kraft would deliver a delayed State of the Welker monologue. Ham and egging it.
So if Reiss is now offering a less than enthusiastic draft critique........hmmm... connect the dots.
As far as the Rutgers over weighting.......I just want to know which scout owns that territory because I want to hire this guy.....SUPER salesmen extraordinaire. I bet he can sell dental floss to Toothless Joe