Great article from Mike Reiss detailing the timeline of the fall

[203Pat]

Lots of detail and a great recap of how we got here as depressing as it may be.

Patriots timeline: How New England fell from Tom Brady and Super Bowls to Mac Jones and 2-10

To me this is the catalyst that kickstarted the fall. If Bill hadn't whiffed so hard on that Harry pick Brady might have stayed and made it work.

April 25, 2019: Arizona State receiver N'Keal Harry is selected with the final pick of the first round (No. 32) of the NFL draft. The next day, the team trades up in the second round for Vanderbilt cornerback Joejuan Williams at No. 45. Neither player comes close to living up to his draft status; Harry plays in 33 games and totals 57 catches; Williams appears in 36 games with one start. These selections highlight a run of shaky drafting.

 

[Ross12]

One thing I find interesting is that Nick Caserio was the Director of Player Personnel during this period, but since he's gone to the Texans starting in 2021 he's drafted several decent WRs - Nico Collins (2021, 3rd round), John Metchie III (2022, 2nd round), Tank Dell (2023, 3rd round). None of these guys are elite but they're all solid role players with some potential. So... why was NE incapable of drafting the position? Was Bill not listening to his scouts?

 

[sb1]

I wonder how things would have moved forward in 2021 if Cam was vaccinated. That 5 day league mandated window where he had to be away from the team swung the door wide open for Jones to take his job and he did.

 

[Steve102]

I wonder how things would have moved forward in 2021 if Cam was vaccinated. That 5 day league mandated window where he had to be away from the team swung the door wide open for Jones to take his job and he did.

Personally, I thought it was because Cam absolutely sucked.

 

[archstanton543]

I wonder how things would have moved forward in 2021 if Cam was vaccinated. That 5 day league mandated window where he had to be away from the team swung the door wide open for Jones to take his job and he did.

I dont.

 

[Rob0729]

One thing I find interesting is that Nick Caserio was the Director of Player Personnel during this period, but since he's gone to the Texans starting in 2021 he's drafted several decent WRs - Nico Collins (2021, 3rd round), John Metchie III (2022, 2nd round), Tank Dell (2023, 3rd round). None of these guys are elite but they're all solid role players with some potential. So... why was NE incapable of drafting the position? Was Bill not listening to his scouts?

It could be a number of things. Most importantly Caserio might have been overruled by Belichick on Harry. Word was a lot of the scouts wanted Deebo Samuel or possibly AJ Brown or someone else, but Belichick wanted Harry. Samuel has said that the Pats basically told him they were going to draft him.

But also, I just wonder if there isn't much effort to develop the receivers they draft correctly since Belichick doesn't value them. People can say none of these guys left here and did anything elsewhere. But I wonder how many players are given poor development early in their career and never reach the heights they could have reached if they were developed correctly. I am not just talking here. I am talking around the league.

 

[Thunderhead]

I know it's been said multiple times, but I'm so glad this type of discourse is now encouraged here, as opposed to thread banning people and labeling them as "fake fans". Will dig into this article on my lunch break.

 

[signbabybrady]

One thing I find interesting is that Nick Caserio was the Director of Player Personnel during this period, but since he's gone to the Texans starting in 2021 he's drafted several decent WRs - Nico Collins (2021, 3rd round), John Metchie III (2022, 2nd round), Tank Dell (2023, 3rd round). None of these guys are elite but they're all solid role players with some potential. So... why was NE incapable of drafting the position? Was Bill not listening to his scouts?

I don't think Bill would ever ignore his scouts but the way I see it and I'm sure it happens on all teams where position coaches and HCs needs or their own scouting might not perfectly align with what the scouts see.

 

[archstanton543]

I know it's been said multiple times, but I'm so glad this type of discourse is now encouraged here, as opposed to thread banning people and labeling them as "fake fans". Will dig into this article on my lunch break.

As the late great Pee Wee Herman said, "I don't need to [read] it. I lived it."

 

[Real fan 02]

Lots of detail and a great recap of how we got here as depressing as it may be.

Patriots timeline: How New England fell from Tom Brady and Super Bowls to Mac Jones and 2-10

To me this is the catalyst that kickstarted the fall. If Bill hadn't whiffed so hard on that Harry pick Brady might have stayed and made it work.

April 25, 2019: Arizona State receiver N'Keal Harry is selected with the final pick of the first round (No. 32) of the NFL draft. The next day, the team trades up in the second round for Vanderbilt cornerback Joejuan Williams at No. 45. Neither player comes close to living up to his draft status; Harry plays in 33 games and totals 57 catches; Williams appears in 36 games with one start. These selections highlight a run of shaky drafting.

Just If.. now I know if, if's were a 5th we'd all be drunk. Lol.. had AB worked out we'd had gotten to another Superbowl. Even with those draft bust. As we all know TB12 was the ultimate equalizer to Bill's draft blunders. Your right the N'Keal Harry bust was just egregious.

 

[Real fan 02]

I don't think Bill would ever ignore his scouts but the way I see it and I'm sure it happens on all teams where position coaches and HCs needs or their own scouting might not perfectly align with what the scouts see.

Curran reported he was ignoring the scouts as they were warning NOT to draft certain guys, and Bill was still drafting them. Ultimately pissed Kraft off enough to have a "collaborative' effort on the drafting.

 

[Real fan 02]

I don't think Bill would ever ignore his scouts but the way I see it and I'm sure it happens on all teams where position coaches and HCs needs or their own scouting might not perfectly align with what the scouts see.

 

[signbabybrady]

Curran reported he was ignoring the scouts as they were warning NOT to draft certain guys, and Bill was still drafting them. Ultimately pissed Kraft off enough to have a "collaborative' effort on the drafting.

I'm sure the scouts feel ignored if he sides with a coach or goes with his own opinion. My point was that I'm sure this occurs across the league. Scouts don't run the draft and make the picks it's their job to provide info to the GMs and Coaches and then they need to consider their roster, skill, and many other factors and draft accordingly for their immediate and long term needs.

 

[signbabybrady]

View attachment 55102

I've heard it was McD who wanted Dobson and Harry.

But ultimately it all falls on Bill he's the one taking the research from all parties and making the final choice.

We know his drafting has been subpar and that's the problem not listening is more of a symptom.

 

[Real fan 02]

I'm sure the scouts feel ignored if he sides with a coach or goes with his own opinion. My point was that I'm sure this occurs across the league. Scouts don't run the draft and make the picks it's their job to provide info to the GMs and Coaches and then they need to consider their roster, skill, and many other factors and draft accordingly for their immediate and long term needs.

Of course you are right. But as Luis Riddick as he was scout, and worked for different organizations front office. Said scouts are very, very important. Thier job is year round. They are the ones doing the all the traveling, going to pro days, work outs. As HCs can't always do so. So what they report is vital information for a team.

 

[Real fan 02]

I've heard it was McD who wanted Dobson and Harry.

Dobson wasn't bad. Had a nice rookie season. Injuries derailed his career.

 

[Real fan 02]

I've heard it was McD who wanted Dobson and Harry.

But ultimately it all falls on Bill he's the one taking the research from all parties and making the final choice.

We know his drafting has been subpar and that's the problem not listening is more of a symptom.

Agreed, he said last season put it all on him if it doesn't work out. Seeing him during his pressers he looks worn, exhausted, dejected at some points. The loosing, and the way it's looked you can tell has taken it's toll at age 71.

 

[n6249c]

Of course you are right. But as Luis Riddick as he was scout, and worked for different organizations front office. Said scouts are very, very important. Thier job is year round. They are the ones doing the all the traveling, going to pro days, work outs. As HCs can't always do so. So what they report is vital information for a team.

Scouts aren’t the only ones who work year round. Head Coaches and coordinators can’t go to all the events that scouts do because they’re working on other parts of their jobs. Designing and tweaking the systems the team will use, for one thing. What scouts report is vital information but it’s not what sets the priorities. Unless you’re seriously suggesting that they should draft whoever scouts recommend most highly and then design the playbook around whoever is on the roster? What happens with that approach when the injury bug changes the skill set inventory? Or how do they reconcile the decision when the SEC scout and the PAC12 scout each is adamant about his guy being the best choice? It’s a lot easier to criticize than to make th8ngs work.

 

[Real fan 02]

Scouts aren’t the only ones who work year round. Head Coaches and coordinators can’t go to all the events that scouts do because they’re working on other parts of their jobs. Designing and tweaking the systems the team will use, for one thing. What scouts report is vital information but it’s not what sets the priorities. Unless you’re seriously suggesting that they should draft whoever scouts recommend most highly and then design the playbook around whoever is on the roster? What happens with that approach when the injury bug changes the skill set inventory? Or how do they reconcile the decision when the SEC scout and the PAC12 scout each is adamant about his guy being the best choice? It’s a lot easier to criticize than to make th8ngs work.

I understand what you're saying. We were just making a point that scouts are very important to an organization. That's not saying HCs and other personnel decision makers aren't. However HCs and GMs aren't flying coach Going as in depth as scouts are. They are integral parts of an organization.

 

[borg]

I don't think Bill would ever ignore his scouts but the way I see it and I'm sure it happens on all teams where position coaches and HCs needs or their own scouting might not perfectly align with what the scouts see.

Regarding N'Keal Harry.....
Scouts: "Unable to create separation"
Bill: "Separation is overrated. We''ll teach him to run block and play decoy"

Regarding inept offense in 2022....
Bill: "No interviews for OC or OL coach, we're bringing in loyalists O'Brien and Klemm. Now someone take Nike for a walk he smells like ass"