Report: Pats sign DT Tommy Kelly

[DaBruinz]

right he's going to be very good like Haynesworth was supposed to be when he "gets his head on right" and "gets rejuvenated because he's playing for a contender". Please he might be ok at best probably better than Deadrick and Love but that's saying next to nothing.

Why are you here? Seriously? You never have anything positive to say. You're always complaining? Are your panties still in a wad over Moss being traded? Get over it already..

 

[Rob0729]

I never talked about mailing it in others did and I said that's a lame reason to bank on some huge comeback. He's a bum in terms of ability at this point in his career. I'm not all over the place you are ascribing things to me that I did not say. I'm not banking on a great season he's going to be filler.

He could very easily be Haynesworth and Ellis 2.0

He could very well be another Haynesworth or Ellis or he could be another Phifer or Rodney. We don't know that. Never said we did.

I just think it is stupid to write off a guy who was in a new system last year and struggled after putting off arguably the two best years of his career. It could be how Dennis Allen used him than his motivation or age. But then again, it could be his motivation or age that caused the decline.

 

[Kontradiction]

Dillon and Moss say hi. Err, so does that former $100 million dollar washed up dt guy too from the Titans.

Only difference is that those two guys didn't show any clear cut signs that they were past their primes. Kelly was being eaten up by one blocker at time last season. Go back in his career and that has rarely if ever happened, even though he was playing on some absolute garbage teams at the time. Like I said, this is a Gerard Warren level signing. It's a meh. It works, but it's not the be all, end all when it comes to concerns at the position.

 

[DaBruinz]

Right. Only the people who agree with the mob mentality on this board are knowledgable and / or know what they are talking about

There is no mob mentality on this board. That is the talk of an incompetent fool.

Is Kelly a long term solution? No. And absolutely no one has said as much. You acting like he's a waste of a roster space without having seen him play shows your own pessimistic bias.

 

[dales804]

Dillon and Moss were not good pickups????

They each didn't each have a couple of good years with the Patriots?????

Regarding Haynesworth, nice cherry picking. For every Haynesworth (who cost the team virtually ZIPPO) or Shaun Ellis' there have been plenty of Roman Pfifers, Andre Carters, Mark Andersons, Bryan Cox's, etc.

It's worth a shot.

I thinks that's what Claremonster is saying. Some have worked (Dillon, Moss) and some not (Haynesworth).

 

[Rob0729]

Only difference is that those two guys didn't show any clear cut signs that they were past their primes. Kelly was being eaten up by one blocker at time last season. Go back in his career and that has rarely if ever happened, even though he was playing on some absolute garbage teams at the time. Like I said, this is a Gerard Warren level signing. It's a meh. It works, but it's not the be all, end all when it comes to concerns at the position.

I don't know. Dillon showed signs of decline his last year.

And again, we don't know if he was misused in a new system last uear.

I think you may be underselling it to say it is a Warren type of signing. Warren showed several years of decline and was decent in a limited role with the Pats. I think Kelly could be far better in a limited and more important role (as a pass rusher). Could be wrong, but you are making your evaluation on one year of production and we don't know for sure it was an age or motivation issue that caused his decline.

 

[DaBruinz]

I haven't talked about Welker or the Patriots cheapness for a while just because that thread is always on your mind doesn't mean Im any more right or wrong then you Lord Shmessy. Hilarious how your response to me is to bring up stuff that I never said in this thread.

Ooh nice snark there I'm the most clueless person on the board because I don't agree with you. Maybe you should realize everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Maybe you should learn to read instead of spewing the way you do. Shmessy said nothing about you not being entitled to your opinion. But what people like yourself always EPICALLY FAIL to understand is that, by voicing your opinion, you are then entitled to hear the opinions of others. Whether you like it or not.

Do everyone a favor and follow your own advice instead of whining all the time. It would do yourself a world of good.

 

[patriot lifer]

Some Raiders fans seemed to be generally bummed when he was released:

Oakland Raiders Forum • View topic - The Raiders will release veteran DL Tommy Kelly Wednesday.

Hopefully a cheap pick-up. But wouldn't be surprised if he gets half-decent money but less than what other teams would have offered him. Paying a bit less than fmv has worked well for the Pats historically. You get a good value, plus it proves that the player is not 100% about the money. He may have been really discouraged with the disarray that is Oakland. It's not a great motivator. Let's not forget that Haynesworth didn't exactly choose to be here. It was a trade. Albeit, I think Ellis chose to come here, but he came here also because we didn't give a discount (I think we paid him a healthy amount (too much)).

The Raiders did save a ton of cap space by letting him go ($6.5 million) in a cap-tight league.

Some good stuff on the Bleacher Report.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ly-fits-into-the-new-england-patriots-defense

I'm not about making excuses for why a player WILL be good. But I like to think it provides some chance that we could get a good value at a position that we were short at. I am pleased at how the team is responding with the DT position. Wilfork should never play as much as he did again. We basically had 3 DT's last year between Wilfork, Deaderick, and Love. Love played well but got hurt which seemed to nag him. Too bad Fananee couldn't work out. I've given up on Pryor not getting injured.

 

[shmessy]

I thinks that's what Claremonster is saying. Some have worked (Dillon, Moss) and some not (Haynesworth).

Yeah, I realized the same thing and edited my post about 15 minutes ago.

 

[resdubwhite]

this guy is not going to be in there every down.

Good veteran signing. Unless its for silly money which I doubt it is.

 

[mgteich]

We've been looking for competition at inside pass-rusher. We now have some. Is he still a $6M man? Of course not. But, he certainly can compete for reps with Love, Deaderick, Cunningham, Forston, Pryor and Armstead.

As with Wilson, this is a Balichick-type veteran pick.

With so many DL's in their contract year, it was good to see an addition.

 

[Kontradiction]

I never undersold his 2012 performance. I am saying he is one year removed from a Pro Bowl caliber performance and that isn't overhyping a 7.5 sack performance from a DT. Kelly had his two best seasons in 2010 and 2011.

His last season's perfomance could be what we are getting or it could have been a bad year with a new regime that didn't use him right. My point is to write him off as a bum or done based on one bad season is silly.

We have seen a lot of older players come in here after people have written them off and performed at a very high level and others who were clearly done. I will never write off a player after one bad year, but it something to keep an eye on.

The following are your posts throughout this thread...

Up until last year, he was one of the more underrated defensive linemen in the league. I certainly wouldn't call him a bum. Hopefully, last year was an aberration, but if they get the Tommy Kelly of 2010 and 2011 (had 14.5 sacks over those two years), the Pats will have a fearsome interior of the line.

I see little comparisons to Haynesworth. Haynesworth got his big deal and went to crap. Kelly had his two best years (2010 and 2011) after he got big money from the Raiders. He had a mediocre year last year, but he was a stud in 2010 and 2011.

We are talking about the 2011 season which was his best season as a Pro, not 2009. He has had one mediocre season and 7-8 solid seasons (he was injured for half of the 2007 season).

Now he might have hit the age wall, but let's not act like he has been mediocre the last few years. He is one year removed from a Pro Bowl/All Pro caliber season.

In 2011, he had 7.5 sacks (a career high), 2 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recovery, 1 INT, 5 pass defenses, and 41 tackles. That is an Pro Bowl/All Pro caliber performance. You don't actually have to be voted as a Pro Bowl or All Pro to have a Pro Bowl or All Pro caliber performance.

He was a stud in 2011 (I just listed his stats). He had a down year in 2012. No one knows if he has hit the age wall, had a down year, didn't fit into the Raiders' scheme, or something else.

Kelly arguably had two of his best seasons in the last three years and people act like he has sucked for years.

Notice how the first part of your posts, for the most part, center around what he was doing in 2010 and 2011? A couple of them contain no mention of his 2012 season. That's why I said that you, among others, were overselling his 2011 efforts while underselling them. To your credit, though, you did come out with this reasoned post...

So which is it? Is he a bum who is mailing it in or a guy who hit the age wall. You seem to be all over the place.

Players can have an one year decline for any number of reasons. There was a regime changed before this season. He might not have fit Dennis Allen's system.

The Kelly signing has a potential of a Rodney Harrison (another guy in his early 30s who was written off because of one bad season), Ted Washington, Roman Phifer (another older guy written off as done) type of signing. He might turn into nothing.

I think if the Pats can use him right, he might turn into a stud pass rushing specialist.

I don't get after one bad season people are automatically writing him off as either a bum or done.

I'll answer the last question. That's because he appears to be past his prime.

 

[RayClay]

Sounds good to me. What have we got to lose? If it frees up Vince at all, it could be a monster move.

 

[Pewsterbaby]

Whenever I want tha skinny on a new acquisition, I always scroll all fast ta see wat Kontradicion haz ta say on tha matter. I found the Kontra Scouting Report on page 3 and I was dejected to see what he said.
My hopes would rise with every positive prior post and I liked seeing people bustin' on BradyToMoss' opinion.
Yeah, but then ma main man, Kontra, sided with him (albeit with reservation) and I went,"Aww piss. Lookie wat Diction is doing over here. Oh balls."

How come Pats didn't even get anywhere near the Osi Umeniura (sp, in a big way) dealio when people were jostling for position?

 

[Rob0729]

The following are your posts throughout this thread...











Notice how the first part of your posts, for the most part, center around what he was doing in 2010 and 2011? A couple of them contain no mention of his 2012 season. That's why I said that you, among others, were overselling his 2011 efforts while underselling them. To your credit, though, you did come out with this reasoned post...



I'll answer the last question. That's because he appears to be past his prime.

Did you notice the posts I was responding to? Early in the thread, I was responding to posts comparing him to Haynesworth and calling him a bum not what he could be here in 2013. I talked about 2010 and 2011 without 2012 to show how he wasn't a bum and nothing like Haynesworth who mailed it in after he got paid.

Congratulations for making a "strong" argument by taking my posts out of context and giving them meanings that I never gave to them. BTW, I acknowledged multiple times even early on that last year was not a good year for Kelly.

Please come back to me with a valid counter argument without using cheap tactics like using my quotes out of context. I thought you were better than this. I guess not.

 

[patriot lifer]

Oakland Raiders: Tommy Kelly Officially Released, McClain and Palmer Next? | Bleacher Report

Not the best things to say about the guy in this article. But hey, he might be the Fananee (however you spell it) that we never had. He might not be the best for first and second downs early in a game. But once teams start passing more on third down and later in the game, he could be very valuable and earn a lot of snaps.

Pepper Johnson, work your magic.

 

[RobertWeathers]

If he can get his head out of his ass, straighten up and be ready to ball for a winner, look out. Wilfork-Kelly tandem would devour the inside.

Only downside is that both he and Wilfork are now in their 30s. I still want a young DT to develop.

He'll only need to play 30 snaps a game but I agree, the team does need to bring in some youth at DT.

I like the pickup

 

[Claremonster]

Only difference is that those two guys didn't show any clear cut signs that they were past their primes. Kelly was being eaten up by one blocker at time last season. Go back in his career and that has rarely if ever happened, even though he was playing on some absolute garbage teams at the time. Like I said, this is a Gerard Warren level signing. It's a meh. It works, but it's not the be all, end all when it comes to concerns at the position.

I remember people saying that both Dillon and Moss were done (at the time). Especially Moss.

I'm not trying to argue, but, I think Kelly probably has some of that same story line. Last year he might have mailed it in. Maybe he needs a fresh start on a winning team though?

At the least, he gets cut for a small loss.

I do want John Abraham here too, fwiw. I think he wants more than what teams are willing to pay. That and he probably doesn't want to to the summer camp stuff.

 

[BB4PRez]

I like the pick-up. If he is done, he won't make it through camp. Sometimes a change in scenery can put a little hop back in a players step. I would like to see them start to pace big Vince a little.

Would like to see Llyod, Edleman and Abraham signed prior to the draft. Dennard gets a short sentance with lots of community service, anger management and alchol counseling.

Then the Pats can really draft best available in good faith. (Don't expect to see it).

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I love the know-it-alls in here who proclaim the team was crazy to sign a washed up veteran before he even plays a down.

Same were saying similar things about Andre Carter..... Tommy may end up like Haynesworth,or he may be more like Andre Carter.

Give him a chance to see what he has left before saying its a wasted roster move.