Why Pats Fans Should Be Worried About Rivers....

[Lansdowne]

I wonder how successful Philip Rivers would be if he had Antowain Smith and Jermaine Wiggins instead of LaDainian Tomlinson and Antonio Gates.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

this isn't meant to attack csfoster because so far I like him. this is aimed at the notion, not the guy presenting it.

I'm sick of the idea that Rivers has yet to prove he can't be like Brady. You cannot compare an unproven player to anyone proven. You just can't. just becuase a guy compare's comparably to brady "so far" doesn't mean you can extrapolate that he will continue to.

greatness is proven, respect earned. if you take every qb who has a great first year comparable to brady maybe 1 in 10 will go on to be great like him. I'll side with the percentages until the guy proves otherwise.

 

[DagoTom]

I wonder how successful Philip Rivers would be if he had Antowain Smith and Jermaine Wiggins instead of LaDainian Tomlinson and Antonio Gates.

Give him a receiver capable of 100+ receptions, like Troy Brown was that year, and he probably would have put up numbers very similar to Brady's. PR's first-year numbers are quite a bit better than Brady's. Give him the exact same personnel and he probably ends up in the same general area statistically. Our team probably ends up being 11-5 also, rather than 14-2.

 

[nickelbolt]

Some of the greatest QBs in NFL history over the years have bombed out in their first playoff game:

Marino: 15-25, 193 yrds, 2 INTs - LOSS

Elway: 10-15, 123 yrds, 1 INT - LOSS

Fouts: 25-47, 333 yrds, 5 INTs - LOSS

Manning: 14-43, 227 yrds - LOSS

Steve Young: 12-17, 158 yrds, 1 INT - LOSS

Aikman: 11-16, 114 yrds, 1 INT - LOSS

Expecting a first year starter to even be DECENT in his first ever playoff game is asking a lot -- Never mind against a great defense and coaching staff.

If the Bolts have to rely on Rivers to win the game, I think you guys are in for a very long game.

Well, since you're comparing him to those greats... in their first playoff game, I guess I can do the same with some others.

How about these greats in their first playoff game:
Montana - 1981 - win (also won SB)
Brady - 2001 - win (also won SB)
Favre - 1993 - win
Kelly - 1998 - win
Simms - 1984 - win

Granted, maybe they all weren't in their first year of starting, but it just shows that there is also plenty of evidence to support the idea that he can succeed.

 

[Lansdowne]

Give him a receiver capable of 100+ receptions, like Troy Brown was that year, and he probably would have put up numbers very similar to Brady's. PR's first-year numbers are quite a bit better than Brady's. Give him the exact same personnel and he probably ends up in the same general area statistically. Our team probably ends up being 11-5 also, rather than 14-2.

What about the running backs?

And if you're going to compare personnel, do you really think Antowain Smith compares to LaDainian Tomlinson? Jermaine Wiggins/Rod Rutledge to Antonio Gates? It's not even close.

Anyway, the comparisons are stupid. Brady has done more with less, that much we know.

 

[csfoster]

I look at this way. Almost every young QB that comes in burning up the league in his first few starts eventually cools off - some faster than others. Look at Gradkowski (sp?) from TB he came out guns blazing, 3 games later not so much. Rivers cooled off in his final 3 games or so, I know he had an ankle injury at some point. Big ben had his safety valve taken away and he struggled and I have no reason to think it will be any different on Sunday.

Bottom line: If it comes down to Rivers beating us, I like our chances.

Likely the same thought process of all those who first faced Brady in the play-offs.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

Well, since you're comparing him to those greats... in their first playoff game, I guess I can do the same with some others.

How about these greats in their first playoff game:
Montana - 1981 - win (also won SB)
Brady - 2001 - win (also won SB)
Favre - 1993 - win
Kelly - 1998 - win
Simms - 1984 - win

Granted, maybe they all weren't in their first year of starting, but it just shows that there is also plenty of evidence to support the idea that he can succeed.

without stats those are useless. Brady won his first game because of snow, his ability at the end of games, defense, and the raiders sucking. unless otherwise corrected i'll assume none of those guys had that great of a game.

 

[nickelbolt]

without stats those are useless. Brady won his first game because of snow, his ability at the end of games, defense, and the raiders sucking. unless otherwise corrected i'll assume none of those guys had that great of a game.

But I thought the point of the playoffs was to win. Am I wrong? I mean... I can look up the stats too, but I just want a win. That's all.

EDIT: Here you go, though...
Montana - 1981 - win (also won SB) 20-31 304yds 2td 1int

Brady - 2001 - win (also won SB) 32-52 312yds 0td 1int

Favre - 1993 – win 15-26 204yds 3td 1int

Kelly - 1998 – win 19-33 244yds 0td 1int

Simms - 1984 – win 22-31 179yds 0td 0int

 

[DagoTom]

What about the running backs?

I think the better question is what would Brady have done in his first year with our personnel. He probably would have won, oh, 14 games or so, the offense probably would have led the league in scoring, and he likely would have put up numbers real similar to PR's.

 

[DagoTom]

without stats those are useless. Brady won his first game because of snow, his ability at the end of games, defense, and the raiders sucking. unless otherwise corrected i'll assume none of those guys had that great of a game.

So...you're saying it's possible to win a playoff game even if the QB isn't necessarily A.) experienced or B.) playing all that great.

 

[nickelbolt]

So...you're saying it's possible to win a playoff game even if the QB isn't necessarily A.) experienced or B.) playing all that great.

I think the stats I just re-posted prove that point.

 

[Lansdowne]

Well, alrighty then. We'll start worrying about Rivers right away. Thanks for the heads up.

Philip Rivers is the next Tom Brady, except his numbers were better in his first year of starting. So scratch that, Rivers is better than Brady. No point in playing the game Sunday now! LOL

 

[abyzmul]

Sorry. Cannot compare. Rivers has had the MVP ("greatest running back ever") to hand the ball off to. He has also had the best tight end in tha game to throw to. Brady certainly did not and has never had those type of weapons. To compare the two quarterbacks is ridiculous.

Additionally, the media keeps trying to find the "next" quarterback to follow Brady's path...(ex: Jake Delhomme, Tony Romo)...I am sure if they keep picking someone, eventually they will hit it.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

rivers may become an awesome player but please take antwain smith and gives us tomlinson on and then lets compare nos again...

Not to mention Antonio Gates for Jermaine Wiggins/Rod Rutledge!

 

[bolts_fan]

To get someone who can come in during his first year starting and produce the sort of two minute drive Brady did is never, ever going to be something you should assume because there's only a handful of players who could really do that. Brady isn't good because of the numbers he puts up. Of course there's a possibility that Rivers could go on to become the coolest, most headstrong guy in the NFL and a great leader of his team, someone everyone can depend on and trust from the co-ordinators down to the bunch of nobodies you have lining up at reciever. More often than not, a player doesn't have that in them, so I'll keep Brady, thanks.

1. Did you see the Chargers-Seahawks game? I beg to differ, but he did EXACTLY what you mentioned in terms of first year player leading a 2-minute drive. With less than 2 minutes left and the Chargers trailing, Rivers led the Chargers on a drive that resulted in a last minute TD to Vincent Jackson for the win. This was in Seattle with their much vaunted 12th man, the Chargers fighting for a first-round bye, Rivers sucking most of the day, and the CBS announcers yelling at him for not taking time outs or spiking the ball. Yes, he didn't put up great numbers and he came through when it counted. 2 minute drive to win a game in adverse condition? You bet your *ss.

2. The coaches, the players, and the team trusts him. The coaches have shown that by unleashing him in the Pittsburgh game and we haven't looked back since. All of his team mates trust him and have said so repeatedly throughout the entire season. Proof of this was when we were down 27 points vs. Cincy and Rivers said they'll have to score 28 more points to beat us. And the team bought into him.

Even with all this, he's clearly no Brady but like others have said, there are signs. Brady is a freaking monster... 3 SB in the past 5 years and winning it all as a first year starter? Hell yeah Brady is one sick motherf*cking QB. The guy's a beast and one of the best in the NFL right now... much better than the overhyped Peyton Manning.

But discount Rivers at your own risk.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

So...you're saying it's possible to win a playoff game even if the QB isn't necessarily A.) experienced or B.) playing all that great.

with extenuating circumstances, yes. usually it comes down to the other team being/playing crappy, like oakland against the pats in '01. little chance of that happening sunday.

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

1. Did you see the Chargers-Seahawks game? I beg to differ, but he did EXACTLY what you mentioned in terms of first year player leading a 2-minute drive. With less than 2 minutes left and the Chargers trailing, Rivers led the Chargers on a drive that resulted in a last minute TD to Vincent Jackson for the win. This was in Seattle with their much vaunted 12th man, the Chargers fighting for a first-round bye, Rivers sucking most of the day, and the CBS announcers yelling at him for not taking time outs or spiking the ball. Yes, he didn't put up great numbers and he came through when it counted. 2 minute drive to win a game in adverse condition? You bet your *ss.

2. The coaches, the players, and the team trusts him. The coaches have shown that by unleashing him in the Pittsburgh game and we haven't looked back since. All of his team mates trust him and have said so repeatedly throughout the entire season. Proof of this was when we were down 27 points vs. Cincy and Rivers said they'll have to score 28 more points to beat us. And the team bought into him.

Even with all this, he's clearly no Brady but like others have said, there are signs. Brady is a freaking monster... 3 SB in the past 5 years and winning it all as a first year starter? Hell yeah Brady is one sick motherf*cking QB. The guy's a beast and one of the best in the NFL right now... much better than the overhyped Peyton Manning.

But discount Rivers at your own risk.

I KNOW Belichick & his staff will be discouting NOTHING. Rivers, Gates, LT, the Charger "D" - will all be getting thier due dilligence this week.

My guess is Coach Camera Smasher & his minions are holed up in Foxboro all hours of the past few and coming nights poring over film of every one of San Diego's games this season, especially focusing on the two losses and the games where teams held Tomlinson in check (Raiders, Ravens, Steelers).

(Yes, 109 yards vs. Oakland is considered "in check" for LT! LOL!)

Every Chargers weakness & strength will be dissected and laid on the table.

The one thing no one is talking about - and I think it's a very key point - is that with Belichick at the helm in the postseason, Pats fans can rest assured we will be prepared.

That's not to say we cannot lose, but if we do, it will be due to some breakdown in execution or out-of-their-minds-play by our opponents.

It will not be lack of preparation or unfamiliarity with everything the opponent does.

With Schottenheimer, I'm sorry to say, Bolts fans are not granted that same comfort level.

Just ask 'em in Cleveland & KC...

ADPF

 

[MoLewisrocks]

http://images.google.com/images?q=tb...es/Crybaby.jpg

Hey look guys, Sad decided to share one of his photos with us so we'd know what he looks like on Sunday.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Rivers is the second coming of Brady

 

[PatsMyBoyz!]

Even with all this, he's clearly no Brady but like others have said, there are signs. Brady is a freaking monster... 3 SB in the past 5 years and winning it all as a first year starter? Hell yeah Brady is one sick motherf*cking QB. The guy's a beast and one of the best in the NFL right now... much better than the overhyped Peyton Manning.

But discount Rivers at your own risk.

Admittedly I haven't read through this entire thread but I don't think anyone's discounting Rivers. He's just unproven in the post season and we as Pats fans have come to know it's not just about talent but it's also about how much a team and a coach has to come together and step it up in January. The Pats and Brady will come to play. The Chargers and Rivers will see everything the Pats have got.
Nobody's discounting Rivers,but the postseason is a different animal,a different season and Rivers has everything going on except that on his resume.
Pats fans have a high standard-we're tough to convince
* My opinion is the winner of this game,whoever it may be, probably takes home the Lombardi.