Trade Moss

[Off The Grid]

Moving The Chains...wins CHAMPIONSHIPS.

Long Bombs...get you in the playoffs.

YIPPEE.

NO Patriot fan who has witnessed the STARK contrast in results...has ANY excuse for not being able to discern the difference.

 

[Off The Grid]

Perhaps tossing balls Moss's way is the price we need to pay to keep him running hard. Even when ill advised.

To paraphrase Good Brother Animal Mother:

ALL Prima Donnas must be HANGED.

Championships are won 5 and 10 Yards at a TIME, sir, as General Tom Brady has made AMPLY clear.

SELL Brother Moss...and REAP that 1st Round Draft Pick from the ill-advised Washington Generals.

And let there be REJOICING.

 

[Christopher Patriot]

I'm in the club that says receiver isn't a problem, play calling, game adjustments and lack of a running threat are on offense.
That being said Vincent Jackson without a sliver of doubt makes this team better and more explosive.
It would be a great move even though that's not a weakness of ours,
I'd like to see us activate Woodhead and Javarris James to see if they our a part of the solution or are they just filling a hole with no purpose or fit.
Trade Moss? Only if we could land V Jax and only if the compensation is right and the team chemistry is unaffected.
Moss is very popular on and off the field it may not be in our best immediate interests to part ways and kill chemistry.
I'd be more stoked for a Woodley, Lawson, Spencer, addition, Choice, Micheal Bush, or Nmandi in a perfect world.
At this point i'll settle to see Crable activated next week he did win the black jersey for gods sake let's give the kid a chance before some a hole swipes him and it bites us.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Maybe we can trade him to the Jets for Braylon Edwards.

 

[upstater1]

Perhaps it was the fact that when he threw them, the timing was more opportune...like the WR actually had separation or wasn't double covered. He seems to have an unhealthy faith in Moss coming down with anything he throws his way...maybe in Moss's prime, it would be justified. But not now.

Perhaps tossing balls Moss's way is the price we need to pay to keep him running hard. Even when ill advised.

Moss was single covered. On replays, the other players were double covered. A common occurrence on 3rd and long when the zone if flooded with DBs.

 

[CheeseMonkeys]

I have been saying for 3 YEARS ~ not here, obviously ~ that the likes of Moss do NOT win Championships.

They PREVENT Championships.

Test: If you have EVER found yourself saying ~ or even THINKING ~ the words "If we lose Moss, we have to replace his production." you ARE a VORTEX.

* Troy Brown?
* Deion Branch?
* Dave Givens?

3 World Championships??

Ring a BELL?? :rolleyes2: :rolleyes2:

If we had the same group of receivers in their same state of talent in those years I guarantee that we would've had even more wins. Are you forgetting how great our defense was in those years? I hate that people are saying that we need to get worse receivers to win games:bricks::bricks::bricks:

 

[Off The Grid]

I hate that people are saying that we need to get worse receivers to win games:bricks::bricks::bricks:

You DO realize that paying Moss means we DON'T pay at least a COUPLE of Ascending Defensive Stars??

Yes, your post does a VERY nice job of encapsulating the ignorance of the masses.

TrenchMen...win Championships.

Prima Donnas...Entertain.

There IS a Salary Cap, I'm sorry to say.

We must make a choice.

Entertainment...or Championships.

Are you having a problem with the math, perhaps?

 

[CheeseMonkeys]

You DO realize that paying Moss means we DON'T pay at least a COUPLE of Ascending Defensive Stars??

Yes, your post does a VERY nice job of encapsulating the ignorance of the masses.

TrenchMen...win Championships.

Prima Donnas...Entertain.

There IS a Salary Cap, I'm sorry to say.

We must make a choice.

Entertainment...or Championships.

Are you having a problem with the math, perhaps?

Who aren't we paying?? Mankins, that's it. Moss isn't keeping us from winning a championship. You are sounding so stupid to say that we have Moss for entertainment purposes.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Remember when Moss said,

"There are some people in New England who don't want to see me do good."

If anybody was confused about who Randy was talking about...there in this thread.

 

[Off The Grid]

You are sounding so stupid to say that we have Moss for entertainment purposes.

It's a PRETTY simple formula: Invest heavily in Defense and LIGHT on Wide Receiver/Running Back types: WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS.

THREE Championships, so far...and COUNTING.

Let me know when you, um, figure that math out...Genius.

 

[CheeseMonkeys]

It's a PRETTY simple formula: Invest heavily in Defense and LIGHT on Wide Receiver/Running Back types: WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS.

THREE Championships, so far...and COUNTING.

Let me know when you, um, figure that math out...Genius.

Maybe they should fire BB and put you as head coach.igsfly:

 

[Off The Grid]

Moss is fantastic.

I was the FRONT of the line, 3.5 years ago, saying we SHOULD scoop him up ~ AT that PRICE ~ because it was clear, to those paying attention, that he has a passion for this Game.

And those who choose to perceive my cold-blooded Salary Cap Decision to vote him OFF the island as being "Anti-Randy" are too ignorant to matter.

I LOVE Randy.

***

But in a SALARY CAP World, CHOICES must be made: And I went on record, elsewhere, as saying I was against resigning him to that big fat contract THREE YEARS AGO.

We would've been better of Franchising him, trading him for consecutive 1st Rounder Defensive BEASTS, in the wake of his record setting year...and spending the Cap Money on THEM.

***

As such, I'm hoping ~ not EXPECTING ~ that Coach B franchises him, moves him for ONE 1st Rounder, and spends the (expected) Cap money on THAT guy, and another couple of ascending Stars.

***

Not trying to be HARSH, gents.

Just pointing out that Fantasy FootBall Championships...are not REAL.

When's the last time that Moss or Owens won a Ring??

 

[CheeseMonkeys]

It isn't like we've been far from a championship since Moss has been here. 2007 should have been a Superbowl win. 2008, Brady was injured, yet we still went 11-5. 2009, Made the playoffs and lost to the Ravens. I agree that we need better defensive players but do not agree with anything else your saying.

When's the last time Jerry Rice or Micheal Irvin won a ring?????

 

[Off The Grid]

It isn't like we've been far from a championship since Moss has been here. 2007 should have been a Superbowl win. 2008, Brady was injured, yet we still went 11-5. 2009, Made the playoffs and lost to the Ravens. I agree that we need better defensive players but do not agree with anything else your saying.

Fair enough, Bro. We've both said our pieces.

 

[emoney_33]

I respectfully disagree. QBs are taught to throw to the open receiver. What I find bizarre is that Brady has been inconsistent at best at throwing a long ball [Randy Moss -- 9 targets/2 catches against NY] but he/coaches continue to force the issue. Best to build a team around a QBs strengths, which from my observations over the past 9 years, is short to mid range passes requiring quick decision-making. It is what worked.

Well then just throw it to a RB for 2 yards every play, I mean at least he'll always be throwing to the OPEN receiver

Your observations are invalid because over the past 9 years, Brady's 2 best statistical seasons are 07 and 09. The passing game has never produced as much without Moss/Welker. We do not have a 2004 Corey Dillon and trading Moss and going with short/midrange passes will probably put us towards the bottom of the NFL in offense, and we would most likely not make the playoffs.

"It is what worked" is wrong as well. We did not win anything simply because Brady threw short passes.

Honestly, you might want to check some facts before relying solely on your eyes/memory. Brady's completion % while making "quick reads" in 2003-2004 were 60.2 and 60.8. Bested by 2007 easily, 2009 at 65.7 and even this year so far at 63.4. So please tell us again how exactly it is -hurting- anyone to be a BETTER passing team? Put the 03-04 defense on this team and they are fighting for 19-0. Add the 04 Dillon and they probably are a lock for perfection

 

[emoney_33]

It's a PRETTY simple formula: Invest heavily in Defense and LIGHT on Wide Receiver/Running Back types: WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS.

THREE Championships, so far...and COUNTING.

Let me know when you, um, figure that math out...Genius.

Who played in the superbowl last year?

 

[Iron Helmet]

Well then just throw it to a RB for 2 yards every play, I mean at least he'll always be throwing to the OPEN receiver

Your observations are invalid because over the past 9 years, Brady's 2 best statistical seasons are 07 and 09. The passing game has never produced as much without Moss/Welker. We do not have a 2004 Corey Dillon and trading Moss and going with short/midrange passes will probably put us towards the bottom of the NFL in offense, and we would most likely not make the playoffs.

"It is what worked" is wrong as well. We did not win anything simply because Brady threw short passes.

Honestly, you might want to check some facts before relying solely on your eyes/memory. Brady's completion % while making "quick reads" in 2003-2004 were 60.2 and 60.8. Bested by 2007 easily, 2009 at 65.7 and even this year so far at 63.4. So please tell us again how exactly it is -hurting- anyone to be a BETTER passing team? Put the 03-04 defense on this team and they are fighting for 19-0. Add the 04 Dillon and they probably are a lock for perfection

Your comment about the RB shows you miss the point. Throwing to the RB is usually a check down pass, for a reason. Figure out why and understand the point.

The ability to morph our offense attack to keep the D off balance was the key in our successful years. Once an offensive formula is solved, you need to adjust to another IN GAME. We cannot make such changes. The Welker, Welker, Welker, bomb to Moss game plan is old and SOLVED. If you cite 2007, remember Stallworth was an exceptional bookend that could throw a defense out of balance. He is gone, without a replacement. Your statistical arguement only tells 1/2 the story. Here is the other 1/2:

The Patriots have been outscored 116-41 in the second half of their last eight road games, a statistic that does not include the team's win over the Buccaneers in London last season.

The breakdown:

2009
Jets -- 13-0
Broncos -- 10-0
Colts -- 21-10
Saints -- 14-7
Dolphins -- 12-7
Bills -- 7-3
Texans -- 21-14

2010
Jets -- 18-0

So, you take the higher percentage of passes. I'll take a SB instead.

 

[WelshPat]

Its either that, or find a bookend for Moss, a la Stallworth, that can put so much vertical pressure on the defense, that Brady will have much easier throws down the field due to a higher incidence of down field separation.

But Stallworth wasn't a great vertical threat here. Not that he never went deep, but his game here was short passes where he got great YAC. He even lost his starting job to Gaffney by the post season.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Who played in the superbowl last year?

I really don't think you want to go there. Both of those teams are relying on later round and UDFA home grown and developed talent. And the one who relied on their well compensated #1 who is jonesing for a better deal got disappointed over an apparent miscommunication...

Did you watch MNF? The one with the UDFA #1 prevailed because he stepped up huge and made a tough catch with a defender draped all over him because in a hard fought defensive game, because that was what it was going to take to prevail in the final analysis when a gun fight broke out down the stretch...kinda like what happened to us back in 2001 and 2003 and even 2004 when our awesome defense staggered down the stretch and kept equally explosive teams in it to the end... The only hero from any of those finishes who is going to the HOF without a ticket is the QB (and maybe the kicker). None of the receivers will because none of them were statistical, highlight reel superstars, just talented guys who busted their butts and stepped up big when opportunity knocked and the situation demanded it.

 

[emoney_33]

Your comment about the RB shows you miss the point. Throwing to the RB is usually a check down pass, for a reason. Figure out why and understand the point.

The ability to morph our offense attack to keep the D off balance was the key in our successful years. Once an offensive formula is solved, you need to adjust to another IN GAME. We cannot make such changes. The Welker, Welker, Welker, bomb to Moss game plan is old and SOLVED. If you cite 2007, remember Stallworth was an exceptional bookend that could throw a defense out of balance. He is gone, without a replacement. Your statistical arguement only tells 1/2 the story. Here is the other 1/2:

The Patriots have been outscored 116-41 in the second half of their last eight road games, a statistic that does not include the team's win over the Buccaneers in London last season.

The breakdown:

2009
Jets -- 13-0
Broncos -- 10-0
Colts -- 21-10
Saints -- 14-7
Dolphins -- 12-7
Bills -- 7-3
Texans -- 21-14

2010
Jets -- 18-0

So, you take the higher percentage of passes. I'll take a SB instead.

So now the 2nd half woes are Moss' fault? Our de facto coordinators have not even earned the right to the job titles yet.

None of the superbowls were won -because- of the passing game and especially not -because- of the lack of a great receiver.