Maroney - best stat I've seen

[RayClay]

Actually, what separates him is the cummulative 2% to the right of that graph. I think what we see with the peak at 16 yards (and corresponding trough at 15 yards) is simply random noise resulting from his career being so short at this point in time. Come back in 3 years and that smooths out. If at that point in time he continues to carry close to 2% to the right of the graph (runs of 30+ yards), he'll be in everybody'ss greatest back ever discussion.

You're right, of course. I was just being a little flip about the blip. There's too much analysis on those pages for an excerpt to be worthwhile, but i think they are instructive in a general sense.

 

[RayClay]

Interesting in the context of this conversation that one of the more noticeable anomalies is Peterson's penchant for -1 yard to about -4 yard runs.

PFnV

I noticed that too. Could be a trade off in looking for the home run.

Maroney has the advantage of clarity in knowing if he takes the handoff in rhythm, hits quick, gets compact and keeps his legs pumping, 99% of his problems in life will be solved.

If, having done that, he sees some daylight, it's Hallelujah time.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

The deal is that like many a young man he's looking for that "dream hole": Beautiful, close at hand, easy to hit, leading to an easy score. The fact is that sometimes you have to treat every hole as an opportunity, though not necessarily a scoring opportunity.

He's pretty much in a career-long dry spell in terms of reliability. "Home run threat" is a fine thing to be, but the threat's got to be real enough that it demands respect. As is often noticed, he's dangerous if he sees a fair amount of daylight. He's not dangerous if it's 3rd and 2 and everybody knows what's coming.

3 yards and a cloud of dust may be a waning concept, but trust me, if you're a team that has a 3rd and 2, it's a great thing to have in your pocket. No hole of any size, just a sliver, and enough push that you pick up the first down or get into the end zone.

He's not the guy that can do that. If he were that guy we would not have 4 other RBs on the roster (granted we'd have 2 or 3. That's just NE.)

The every-down back is becoming an endangered species so this does not worry me much... Maroney in the game means a stop for a loss or a 1 or 2 yard gain, or a 20 or 30 yard gain very rarely but often enough to make his YPC much higher than you'd think just from watching him get stuffed at the line. You don't want to lose what he brings, but you have no idea whether he'll bring it on any given play. And when he doesn't there's just not that toughness and decisiveness that gets you the 4 or 5 yards.

That's the irritation w/Maroney... we want him to be something he's not, and he's so feeling the pressure. He keeps predicting a breakout season, or a breakout game, or whatever, but I just don't see it all falling into place.

Maybe one day it will... until then I'll cringe any time I see him in at the stripe or on third and short or whatever. Judging from what I've seen it's just not his forte, no pun intended.

PFnV

 

[maverick4]

The every-down back is becoming an endangered species so this does not worry me much... Maroney in the game means a stop for a loss or a 1 or 2 yard gain, or a 20 or 30 yard gain very rarely but often enough to make his YPC much higher than you'd think just from watching him get stuffed at the line. You don't want to lose what he brings, but you have no idea whether he'll bring it on any given play. And when he doesn't there's just not that toughness and decisiveness that gets you the 4 or 5 yards.

That's the irritation w/Maroney... we want him to be something he's not, and he's so feeling the pressure. He keeps predicting a breakout season, or a breakout game, or whatever, but I just don't see it all falling into place.

The problem with Maroney as a home run back:

1. He doesn't even break that many huge runs, to compensate for his many negative runs.

2. Given how many yards a team can routinely gain from a medium pass play, the value of a long running gain isn't as big as people think. It's more important if a back can consistently get you 3.5 yards per play... who can get you that 2nd and 6 situation, get you that 1st down off 3rd and short.

 

[shmessy]

The deal is that like many a young man he's looking for that "dream hole": Beautiful, close at hand, easy to hit, leading to an easy score. The fact is that sometimes you have to treat every hole as an opportunity, though not necessarily a scoring opportunity..........No hole of any size, just a sliver, and enough push that you pick up the first down or get into the end zone.



PFnV

You make a moderator cringe.

 

[RayClay]

The deal is that like many a young man he's looking for that "dream hole": Beautiful, close at hand, easy to hit, leading to an easy score. The fact is that sometimes you have to treat every hole as an opportunity, though not necessarily a scoring opportunity.

I like this explanation, for some strange reason....

 

[muzz]

I'd just like to point out that 2 weeks ago, Mendenhall was a healthy scratch, and Pittsburgh fans were labeling him a bust en masse. They said he was made of glass, overrated, not properly motivated, and not living up to his athletic potential or draft spot. He was all of the things that the Maroney-bashers call him, until he wasn't

I didn't say Mendenhall was the greatest, and I am well aware of him being a healthy scratch.
He may have some issues, but he was still slamming it through the hole...err crease.

 

[MetalBleachers]

Can we all come to some kind of truce on Maroney? Let's set some parameters for the Denver game, give him a chance to get the haters (a group that has included me) off his back.
What say, 12+ carries, 50+ yards? Will that be enough? Because, seriously, this going-nowhere discussion has gotten exhausting - and exhausted. :nosmile:

 

[maverick4]

Can we all come to some kind of truce on Maroney? Let's set some parameters for the Denver game, give him a chance to get the haters (a group that has included me) off his back.
What say, 12+ carries, 50+ yards? Will that be enough? Because, seriously, this going-nowhere discussion has gotten exhausting - and exhausted. :nosmile:

The parameters can't be some sort of general metric like total yards / total carries.

The main point of this thread is % of negative runs.

I would be satisfied if Maroney got his % of negative runs in line with every other Pats RB, which is about 6% (Maroney is above 20% right now).

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Hey, I'm a long time Maroney backer/wait-and-see'er. And no, I'm not calling a truce, because I'm not firing at him. Just musing.

Here's another musing...

You guys know how often people say, when you have a great run-blocking line, how a guy has such patience and vision.

We don't have a run-blocking line of that caliber. We have an okay run-blocking line.

So Lawrence Maroney might be a household name were he four years older and drafted by KC in 2002, then played for them earlier in that decade... something would develop so often that a guy with vision and patience (in this case Priest Holmes) would skewer any defense.

I'm not saying Maroney's Priest Holmes. I'm saying (what others here have said,) that our run blocking can't make the most of Maroney as an every-down guy, with occasional spelling by a Sammy Morris in short yardage, sometimes.

But along with that, I'm seeing there's something about just plowing ahead that is simply not in his nature. He sees the hole as half-full not half-empty.

PFnV

 

[shmessy]

Hey, I'm a long time Maroney backer/wait-and-see'er. And no, I'm not calling a truce, because I'm not firing at him. Just musing.

Here's another musing...

You guys know how often people say, when you have a great run-blocking line, how a guy has such patience and vision.

We don't have a run-blocking line of that caliber. We have an okay run-blocking line.

So Lawrence Maroney might be a household name were he four years older and drafted by KC in 2002, then played for them earlier in that decade... something would develop so often that a guy with vision and patience (in this case Priest Holmes) would skewer any defense.

I'm not saying Maroney's Priest Holmes. I'm saying (what others here have said,) that our run blocking can't make the most of Maroney as an every-down guy, with occasional spelling by a Sammy Morris in short yardage, sometimes.

But along with that, I'm seeing there's something about just plowing ahead that is simply not in his nature. He sees the hole as half-full not half-empty.

PFnV

Or maybe the OL secretly hates Maroney and only blocks well for Morris, Faulk, BJGE and Taylor.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I guanantee you that his yards per carry metric will be fine, over the course of more than one game. In Denver, I dunno? I would guess 3.5-4 even though it IS Denver.

Now with Denver's secondary being what it is, I wouldn't be surprised to see both him and Relatively Unfragile Fred get a good dose of action... but it's the opposite of a smart way to solve it, to miniaturize the window of stats you look at.

My issue is consistency. Tell me a guy has a 4.4 YPC average (or whatever his is,) and I say "Whoa! just feed him the ball three times and it's a first down!" With some guys that's actually true or close to it. Not Lo Mo.

What it keeps looking like is this: If he could just stomach running into the traffic and making the most of it, you'd add another yard to that YPC, and it would be the yard that counts pretty damn often. You get a fresh set of downs with 20 yards and you get a fresh set of downs, sometimes, with 2 yards.

Or maybe the way of saying it is that he doesn't have great field vision -- he can't see when a sliver is all you'll get. Maybe the "patient" guy is exactly as gifted as a Maroney in terms of vision, he is just waiting when it is appropriate to wait because more often than not he'll have a good place to start. But even KC's line in the middle of the decade didn't make a huge hole every play. Too close for comfort, but not EVERY play. Maybe a split second is the difference between dancing and patience, or maybe one foot being ahead of the other instead of to the side of it.

Okay I think I'm Maroneyed out now.

PFnV

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Or maybe the OL secretly hates Maroney and only blocks well for Morris, Faulk, BJGE and Taylor.

LOL well played sir. But you make my point - each of those backs looks at a clogged line except a sliver and says aww fudge, THIS again. I HATE the fact that football's such a violent game but it is what I do for a living... and they just hit the sliver and get the 3 yards... and sometimes it turns into 5 or 6. I just never see that reaction from LoMo.

 

[maverick4]

I
Now with Denver's secondary being what it is, I wouldn't be surprised to see both him and Relatively Unfragile Fred get a good dose of action... but it's the opposite of a smart way to solve it, to miniaturize the window of stats you look at.

My issue is consistency. Tell me a guy has a 4.4 YPC average (or whatever his is,) and I say "Whoa! just feed him the ball three times and it's a first down!" With some guys that's actually true or close to it. Not Lo Mo.

1. Not sure if you're aware, but Fred Taylor is out for most of the season with an ankle injury.

2. Maroney's problem is he's not willing to just slam his body and try to move a pile. He's like a major league hitter who always swings for the fences and doesn't have the willingness to just make contact and move a guy over on the bases. If he doesn't see a wide open hole, he stops.

 

[letekro]

LOL well played sir. But you make my point - each of those backs looks at a clogged line except a sliver and says aww fudge, THIS again. I HATE the fact that football's such a violent game but it is what I do for a living... and they just hit the sliver and get the 3 yards... and sometimes it turns into 5 or 6. I just never see that reaction from LoMo.

Will not participate in pointless Maroney debate....will not participate...will not participate...nom meo rengue kwo....

 

[shmessy]

2. Maroney's problem is he's not willing to just slam his body and try to move a pile. He's like a major league hitter who always swings for the fences and doesn't have the willingness to just make contact and move a guy over on the bases. If he doesn't see a wide open hole, he stops.

I'm wondering whether the coaching staff is telling him to avoid slamming the line because of his shoulder.

Those here who claim that Maroney hits the line just as hard as the others seem to be making the charge that those of us who clearly see otherwise are saying so because we somehow "hate" the guy.

I happen to like Maroney, think he's a good kid who is trying and has a wealth of talent.

For whatever reason, he doesn't hit the LOS with any authority for the past few years. I am more than willing to assume that perhaps one reason could be that he is being coached not to by a Patriots staff that is trying to protect his shoulder?

Honestly, alot of us like Maroney and are rooting for him. Our eyes, however, don't deceive us. It has been more than just the past one or two weeks, it's been over the past couple of years.

 

[RayClay]

I guanantee you that his yards per carry metric will be fine, over the course of more than one game. In Denver, I dunno? I would guess 3.5-4 even though it IS Denver.

Now with Denver's secondary being what it is, I wouldn't be surprised to see both him and Relatively Unfragile Fred get a good dose of action... but it's the opposite of a smart way to solve it, to miniaturize the window of stats you look at.

Fred's out Va, maybe for the season. High ankle sprain.

 

[shmessy]

Fred's out Va, maybe for the season. High ankle sprain.

Actually, I thought it was an inner foot ligament.

 

[maverick4]

I happen to like Maroney, think he's a good kid who is trying and has a wealth of talent.
.

I like Maroney as a person too and hope he eventually succeeds as a back.

Right now, however, he simply shouldn't be starting for this team.

We don't need a back who can occasionally spring a big run, when a routine medium pass play generates just as many yards with higher chance of success and frequency.

All we need is a battering ram HB who can as consistently get 3.5 ypc as possible. 01-03 Antowain Smith is a better back than 07-09 Maroney.

 

[oldskool138]

The best Maroney stat I've seen is that he's only got one more year left on his contract.