Maroney - best stat I've seen

[muzz]

They say Rashard Mendenhall is a slug, waste of a draft pick...
Anyone watch that pitt/SD game last week?

Anyone see the CREASES that he went through?
Anyone see the creases that really weren't there to our eye, yet he slammed through that CRACK?

I sure did, and I was impressed with how DECISIVE he was, and considering he is basically a rook(last year he was hurt basically all year), with very little touches, he was outstanding.

I would LOVE to have a back that said to himself " There is the smallest crease, it's NOT there YET, but it WILL be by the time I get there".

I was impressed, he smacked them hard, and sometimes I was wondering what he was seeing, cuz they were NOT big holes, sometimes I saw NOTHING, yet he slithered and made a decent gain.....

Mendenhall may end up being a bum, but he sure impressed me last week.

 

[maverick4]

Can one of you geniuses that is dishing LoMo give me stats for a successful running back in the NFL who does not have a lead blocker?
.

You make it sounds like a lead blocker is the only thing stopping Maroney from being good.

Yet, in this very thread it shows how every other RB on the exact same team, with the exact same blockers, have significantly fewer % runs for losses than Maroney.

 

[RayClay]

That's a really interesting graph, and suggests that what separates the Adrian Peterson's from the average NFL running back is not that much. Those little peaks that you suggest differentiate him occurred on less than 2% of carries.

There's a lot more for other runners

The Bettis Tomlinson comparison is interesting too in how similar most runs are, though they are different type runners.

Seems like successful runners have far more positive, but not outstanding runs than short or breakout ones. Might explain how consistent, mediocre runners can help a good team if used right (Antowain?).

I still think Sanders plied the middle of the field sometimes, even if he managed to avoid much contact. IMO, you simply can't run to the outside predictably in the NFL. They will chase you.

I'm going beyond the study saying 3 yd carries are up the middle, obviously.

 

[mayoclinic]

They say Rashard Mendenhall is a slug, waste of a draft pick...
Anyone watch that pitt/SD game last week?

Anyone see the CREASES that he went through?
Anyone see the creases that really weren't there to our eye, yet he slammed through that CRACK?

I sure did, and I was impressed with how DECISIVE he was, and considering he is basically a rook(last year he was hurt basically all year), with very little touches, he was outstanding.

I would LOVE to have a back that said to himself " There is the smallest crease, it's NOT there YET, but it WILL be by the time I get there".

I was impressed, he smacked them hard, and sometimes I was wondering what he was seeing, cuz they were NOT big holes, sometimes I saw NOTHING, yet he slithered and made a decent gain.....

Mendenhall may end up being a bum, but he sure impressed me last week.

I loved Mendenhall coming out of Illinois and thought the Steelers got a steal to snag him at #23 in the 2008 draft. Then he did nothing (and went on IR) his rookie year, Chris Johnson became an immediate sensation, and he got benched for not knowing the playbook.

Yes, he looked great on Monday night. SD doesn't have much of a rushing defense (or any kind of defense) at the moment, but he certainly looked like a bona fide NFL running back. As you say, decisive, hitting the holes hard. I'll be interested to see if he keeps it up.

 

[RayClay]

They say Rashard Mendenhall is a slug, waste of a draft pick...
Anyone watch that pitt/SD game last week?

Anyone see the CREASES that he went through?
Anyone see the creases that really weren't there to our eye, yet he slammed through that CRACK?

I sure did, and I was impressed with how DECISIVE he was, and considering he is basically a rook(last year he was hurt basically all year), with very little touches, he was outstanding.

I would LOVE to have a back that said to himself " There is the smallest crease, it's NOT there YET, but it WILL be by the time I get there".

I was impressed, he smacked them hard, and sometimes I was wondering what he was seeing, cuz they were NOT big holes, sometimes I saw NOTHING, yet he slithered and made a decent gain.....

Mendenhall may end up being a bum, but he sure impressed me last week.

I do believe plays are designed to open a crease, but if you wait to see it, it's on the way to being closed. How this relates to zone blocking, I have no idea.

 

[maverick4]

Really? Barry Sanders was considered one of the greatest RBs of all time, and he had a huge number of rushes for negative and low yardage, and a huge variance.

Barry Sanders had many negative runs, but always a huge play which gave him a great overall ypc average. Now, a separate debate could be two RB's with the same ypc, but different variances, and debate who is better.

However, Maroney doesn't break big plays. He gets the negative runs that a Sanders got, without the huge runs.

 

[mayoclinic]

You make it sounds like a lead blocker is the only thing stopping Maroney from being good.

Yet, in this very thread it shows how every other RB on the exact same team, with the exact same blockers, have significantly fewer % runs for losses than Maroney.

Some of that may be a question of running style (Morris and Taylor are more power runners used to ploughing throw a crowd to gain some yardage) and rustiness coming off of IR, but I have no difficulty agreeing that Maroney is not running very well right now. The question is how much is rustiness and lack of carries, how much is mental, how much is physical, and most of all, how much is permanent. Hard to tell without him getting some sustained work, preferably with a little better blocking.

 

[eagle eye]

You make it sounds like a lead blocker is the only thing stopping Maroney from being good.

Yet, in this very thread it shows how every other RB on the exact same team, with the exact same blockers, have significantly fewer % runs for losses than Maroney.

Well he has proven in the past how explosive he is when he gets to the second level. He had a lead blocker in his first two years here and averaged 4.5 yards per carry over those two seasons iirc.

Last season he was injured so lets forget it, after all most RBs have a bad injury years these days. That leaves us with this year and after four games we have a load of posters saying he is rubbish.
Really I don't get how you can make up your mind so quickly. And you have to also remember that he is still learning to run without a lead blocker.

And I still don't get why the Patriots don't have a FB on the roster when it was clearly successful having a lead blocker in 06 and 07.

 

[maverick4]

Hard to tell without him getting some sustained work, preferably with a little better blocking.

It's getting harder and harder, to try to pin this on the blocking. Maroney is getting significantly different results from other RB's going in before or after him, especially in losing yards.

If we can agree in general for multiple reasons, that a RB who consistently gets 3.5 ypc is more valuable than another RB with a higher variance in runs... then Maroney shouldn't be our starting RB.

 

[HarkDawg]

It's getting harder and harder, to try to pin this on the blocking. Maroney is getting significantly different results from other RB's going in before or after him, especially in losing yards.

If we can agree in general for multiple reasons, that a RB who consistently gets 3.5 ypc is more valuable than another RB with a higher variance in runs... then Maroney shouldn't be our starting RB.

well said

 

[maverick4]

we have a load of posters saying he is rubbish.
Really I don't get how you can make up your mind so quickly. And you have to also remember that he is still learning to run without a lead blocker.

And I still don't get why the Patriots don't have a FB on the roster when it was clearly successful having a lead blocker in 06 and 07.

I personally don't think he's "rubbish". I think he could get better, and is still young. However, he shouldn't be starting right now.

I also don't think we need a FB just because Maroney can't run without one. If he can't be effective in our 2WR-2TE set, which is our predominant formation, he shouldn't be starting.

 

[RayClay]

Well he has proven in the past how explosive he is when he gets to the second level. He had a lead blocker in his first two years here and averaged 4.5 yards per carry over those two seasons iirc.

Last season he was injured so lets forget it, after all most RBs have a bad injury years these days. That leaves us with this year and after four games we have a load of posters saying he is rubbish.
Really I don't get how you can make up your mind so quickly. And you have to also remember that he is still learning to run without a lead blocker.

And I still don't get why the Patriots don't have a FB on the roster when it was clearly successful having a lead blocker in 06 and 07.

The patriots have not consistently used fullbacks, that's why they don't have one. They use the tight end occasionally. They also have supposedly altered their whole blocking scheme, though i don't know if they use zone blocking for Taylor Morris and Faulk, who seem to be able to get past the line of scrimmage somehow.

The bottom line is, they are not going to change all their schemes and complementary personnel for one RB. Maroney will have to fight to prove he can run in traffic and break tackles. When he does, it will open up other opportunities to break outside for big gains.

It's all on him.

 

[muzz]

I loved Mendenhall coming out of Illinois and thought the Steelers got a steal to snag him at #23 in the 2008 draft. Then he did nothing (and went on IR) his rookie year, Chris Johnson became an immediate sensation, and he got benched for not knowing the playbook.

Yes, he looked great on Monday night. SD doesn't have much of a rushing defense (or any kind of defense) at the moment, but he certainly looked like a bona fide NFL running back. As you say, decisive, hitting the holes hard. I'll be interested to see if he keeps it up.

Thing is the Pitt OL has NOT been great at opening holes for the RBS this year, and when I saw the stuff he was running through I was amazed, cuz half the time the hole wasn't there..at least YET!!
yet he dashed through a sliver and was gone....

Good stuff, and who knows that may be his career highlight.....I doubt it, he looked decisive and ready to pound.

Maroney has talent, he just needs to look, and hit the hole...even look at a sliver and ram through it.

 

[BradyFTW!]

They say Rashard Mendenhall is a slug, waste of a draft pick...
Anyone watch that pitt/SD game last week?

Anyone see the CREASES that he went through?
Anyone see the creases that really weren't there to our eye, yet he slammed through that CRACK?

I sure did, and I was impressed with how DECISIVE he was, and considering he is basically a rook(last year he was hurt basically all year), with very little touches, he was outstanding.

I would LOVE to have a back that said to himself " There is the smallest crease, it's NOT there YET, but it WILL be by the time I get there".

I was impressed, he smacked them hard, and sometimes I was wondering what he was seeing, cuz they were NOT big holes, sometimes I saw NOTHING, yet he slithered and made a decent gain.....

Mendenhall may end up being a bum, but he sure impressed me last week.

I'd just like to point out that 2 weeks ago, Mendenhall was a healthy scratch, and Pittsburgh fans were labeling him a bust en masse. They said he was made of glass, overrated, not properly motivated, and not living up to his athletic potential or draft spot. He was all of the things that the Maroney-bashers call him, until he wasn't

 

[HarkDawg]

Steelers imo draft Extremely Well. (Better Than Us) and we hit alot with our draft picks.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Steelers imo draft Extremely Well. (Better Than Us) and we hit alot with our draft picks.

How do the Steelers draft better than us? I agree that the Steelers, Colts, and Pats draft better than the rest of the league, but for all the talk that the Steelers outdraft us, no major disparity is evident if you stack up our picks against theirs. The Steelers miss on draft picks just like we do. Just look at the first three rounds of 2008: Mendenhall (who was widely and prematurely considered a bust in Steelers country before last week), Limas Sweed (still prematurely considered a bust), Bruce Davis (already cut). See, everyone misses quite a few.

 

[mayoclinic]

How do the Steelers draft better than us? I agree that the Steelers, Colts, and Pats draft better than the rest of the league, but for all the talk that the Steelers outdraft us, no major disparity is evident if you stack up our picks against theirs. The Steelers miss on draft picks just like we do. Just look at the first three rounds of 2008: Mendenhall (who was widely and prematurely considered a bust in Steelers country before last week), Limas Sweed (still prematurely considered a bust), Bruce Davis (already cut). See, everyone misses quite a few.

How do the Steelers draft better than us? Because their made of glass, overrated, not living up to their potential, not running hard first round RB draft choice runs for 165 yards in their last game and ours runs for 6, that's how.

 

[ScrewDrvr]

It does beg the question, what do they think Fred Taylor is in the game for?

run the ball, or block.

Hes the best at both of those.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

That little peak around 16 yds seems to be what separates Adrian Peterson from
other backs. Lots of other curves here.

Actually, what separates him is the cummulative 2% to the right of that graph. I think what we see with the peak at 16 yards (and corresponding trough at 15 yards) is simply random noise resulting from his career being so short at this point in time. Come back in 3 years and that smooths out. If at that point in time he continues to carry close to 2% to the right of the graph (runs of 30+ yards), he'll be in everybody'ss greatest back ever discussion.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Actually, what separates him is the cummulative 2% to the right of that graph. I think what we see with the peak at 16 yards (and corresponding trough at 15 yards) is simply random noise resulting from his career being so short at this point in time. Come back in 3 years and that smooths out. If at that point in time he continues to carry close to 2% to the right of the graph (runs of 30+ yards), he'll be in everybody'ss greatest back ever discussion.

Interesting in the context of this conversation that one of the more noticeable anomalies is Peterson's penchant for -1 yard to about -4 yard runs.

PFnV