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Zero Identity

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PatsFan2

Pro Bowl Player
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Bill was obviously lying

Anyway we've become the dysfunctional teams we make fun of

I know the Brady belichick debate has been pounded into the ground, but again, people underestimated how much stability Brady gave this organization. Because the reality is belichick has done stuff like this in the past, it just never matters when you had the franchise QB who never got hurt, was consistently great, and was a great leader.

At this point I'm not even stunned.
*Ding* *ding* *ding* post of the year can you post that again. :)
 

203Pat

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Bill was obviously lying

Anyway we've become the dysfunctional teams we make fun of

I know the Brady belichick debate has been pounded into the ground, but again, people underestimated how much stability Brady gave this organization. Because the reality is belichick has done stuff like this in the past, it just never matters when you had the franchise QB who never got hurt, was consistently great, and was a great leader.

At this point I'm not even stunned.
This is the worst part of it. For decades we watched teams do stupid things and cycle through quarterbacks and shoot themselves in the foot. Hell we won tons of games just sitting back taking what the defense was giving us and waiting for the other team to make a mistake. Now we are that team shuffling QBs and killing ourselves with dumb penalties and stupid turnovers. Honestly if we lose to the Jets on Sunday I am going to be beside myself.
 

Thelonious

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
I'm afraid their identity is that they are a mediocre team working at being something better. I was a Pats' fan long before the Brady run. I've seen this before. They might rise back to the top, or they might not. EVERY year I have been a fan, there has been reason for hope, and reason for concern. During the Brady run, we could sort of count on our concerns being addressed, or finessed, or compensated for, or something. During the earlier phase of a rebuild, as now, you just can't count on that happening. In order to have an identity, you have to be solidly and reliably GOOD at something. We ain't there yet.
 

Joker

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I'm afraid their identity is that they are a mediocre team working at being something better. I was a Pats' fan long before the Brady run. I've seen this before. They might rise back to the top, or they might not. EVERY year I have been a fan, there has been reason for hope, and reason for concern. During the Brady run, we could sort of count on our concerns being addressed, or finessed, or compensated for, or something. During the earlier phase of a rebuild, as now, you just can't count on that happening. In order to have an identity, you have to be solidly and reliably GOOD at something. We ain't there yet.
The Monk has spoken!

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Triumph

Hall of Fame Poster
One of the biggest issues in the loss to Chicago was Zappes passes betting tipped or batted down.

If that can be mitigated and corrected, this team can get back to being a good team capable of a post season win.

Without competent QB play the whole team is screwed.
 

cmasspatsfan

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
This board can be schizophrenic, after last week posters were forgiving Patricia and had high hopes, one loss, a bad one I'll give you that and we're a lost team. It's a rebuild year, year 2, I don't count the Covid Cam year, this is what rebuild years look like, you guys have to know it was going to come eventually after the 20 years we just had.
 

RIpats88

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
We have better talent than we had last year. A team that went 10-6 and looked like we were on the right path.

Only thing changed was who is steering the ship on offense. I'm not sure why so many people dismiss the coaching change.

This team has lost alot of coaching talent. And instead of replacing them with fresh new minds they have been replaced with bill yes men who never coached offense because he can pay them peanuts as they are being paid by the teams that fired them.

Then on defense you have bills kids calling the shots..

No other team would make hires this way. For YEARS we talked about poor coaches on other teams ruining them and their players. But somehow are ignoring that here
 

PatsFan2

Pro Bowl Player
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
We have better talent than we had last year. A team that went 10-6 and looked like we were on the right path.

Only thing changed was who is steering the ship on offense. I'm not sure why so many people dismiss the coaching change.

This team has lost alot of coaching talent. And instead of replacing them with fresh new minds they have been replaced with bill yes men who never coached offense because he can pay them peanuts as they are being paid by the teams that fired them.

Then on defense you have bills kids calling the shots..

No other team would make hires this way. For YEARS we talked about poor coaches on other teams ruining them and their players. But somehow are ignoring that here
In some places not all ie...need a LB that can flow from side to side we have nothing in some and have regressed in others.
 

PatsFanInVa

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I can't believe the premise isn't being examined a little more thoroughly.

Over the years, and during the entire First Dynasty, especially year 1, the Patriots were the team that was going to beat you whatever way you left open. Brady could be dink-and-dunk man or the mad bomber (once the targets were here.) The D didn't consistently totally destroy all opponents, they just always beat you.

But in that whole time, everybody talked about Brady as pretty much being the franchise. Other than that we "didn't have an identity..." and I am okay with that.

If we have no identity except that the team always wins, that is fine. I think actually that's closer to what you want. Call yourself "Blitzburgh" and people figure out how to beat your blitzes, and so on. Be dependent on one guy, and you lose if they can beat that one guy. The fact is that the Pats were not that thoroughly dependent on Brady (see Cassel, M., 2008), but of course any Brady-led team has him as the identity or a big part of it.

While I do not believe that every HC longs to have a canned narrative about the team, I do believe that every HC want to know it does some things extremely well -- the more of them the better. Because you can't have everything, the poor running team with a great QB accepts the "explosive passing attack" tag -- and the reverse. Or if the O is hitting on all 8, then it's an "explosive offense" without mention of the D. Or if you always gut it out somehow (most years, the actual style of the Pats, although Brady was always toward the top in QB metrics), that became your identity.

So for calling on the team to have a better defined identity, sir, I award you no points.

You're expressing, another way, that we're not, to date, really good at anything. We don't really scare anybody outside of Cleveland and Detroit, which is sort of like not being able to beat the local cub scouts but beating the hell out of the Brownies. Wow, Brownies... not even on purpose! But you get it... I think the problem is we're not good yet, not that nobody can say, "Oh those New England Patriots. They don't always ______, but they sure can _____"

Solution: Not "have an identity," more like "Score points, and get the other guys not to." Be good at football.
 

MrTibbs

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
There is one important question each HC would like an answer to - What/Who we are as a team?
With half of the regular season almost gone the answer in NE might be foggier than it was before week 1.

I cant recall a BB team with less identity than this one. Nothing seems to be clear atm.
It was driving in this direction throughout preseason and it got worse:
No clear QB play or starter.
No clear running game (tried move towards zone halfway returning to gap) despite monster Mondre.
No clear offensive vision/strategy/personnel. ($30M TE combo is hardly existent with lazy 11 personnel the norm)
No clear offensive coaching leadership.
No OL depth with both starting tackles playing flag football.
No clear D personnel or identity despite some success
- corners are moved all over the place w best graded CB in the league & the only true pats man corner Jack getting 50% of the snaps or less - WTF?
Cant remember seeing CB marry-go-round like this under BB. Its hard to find continuity as a player let alone as a group.
Not to mention practice squad Bryant acting like starting NFL corner LOL. At least the Bryant starting punt returner experiment seems to be over..
- the only LB that can cover plays 10% while the two thumping LBs cant stop designed QB runs if their life depended on it. And the biggest future division rival is the best in the league at it.
It doesn't matter if you stop RB with this personnel. Half decent QB will eat you alive with all Bentley, Tavai and Bryant on the field at the same time.

All this (and more) with relatively healthy team.
The only unit that suffered significant injury was ST and it showed.

3-4 and the firm bottom of division is least of a problem.
It doesn't help though esp. since its done on the easiest of schedules - with much stronger schedule looming.

I didn't care much about results this year. What i expected/wanted was to see foundations built for a team that will emerge in 2023 (draft hits + big cap).
Instead of confirmation of Mac leadership Pats are entering QB questions with Mac losing confidence and poise.
Where will the rest of leadership come from after DMC, Slater are gone? Who are the young emerging leaders? I love Dugger but dont see it there..
Who will install clear identity to the offence and lead it?
It all seems quite dysfunctional atm and counterproductive at times as well which is the last thing i would expect from BB.
They Drafted speed (“we want to get faster“) - they play snail personnel.


It will be interesting to see how BB handles the situation, can he still build some foundations for the future till the end of the season so that he can make the most of all the cap he will have in the next seasons.


There's still plenty to be optimistic/excited about for the future - incl QB - but without identity it will be that much harder.

-.-



ps
most of this was writing itself from week1 and is not a reaction to MNF...
Agreed
 

MrTibbs

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
BB wont change his methods but this thing about not naming the official OC, or DC (I think Flores never got the title) sucks. This is something the NFL could stick their fingers in and I wouldn't bother. New rule, name your ****ing coaches before the season d%#*[email protected]
What's worse is that denies those "coaches" from getting proper compensation. Bill sure the hell is making sure he's compensated properly!
 

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