Zach Moore or Michael Sam?

[Zeus]

II am pretty sure Belichik would draft a hermaphrodite with a giant ding dong growing from his forehead if it would help the team.

Not sure but I think this is what Brandon Spikes liked to do in the offseason.

 

[English Patriot]

What do you mean "the only thing"?? If someone believes a gay man should not be in a NFL locker room that person can't have that opinion? If someone expresses such an opinion is it right for the whole media and NFL establishment to jump down that person's throat?

I'm straight and i can't understand how a man/woman could be attracted to another of the same gender but at the same time if that person is a team mate and is helping us achieve then no way will i let something like that be held against them. THAT'S MY OPINION.

 

[SB39]

Now before people get sand up their holes just READ this whole post. In the 6th round of the draft the Pats selected Concordia DE Zach Moore. I'm pretty sure nobody had ever heard nor seen him on this board and if you did you were probably watching some random game late night trying to go to sleep.

And I'm pretty sure nobody had ever heard nor seen Michael Sam on this board prior to his announcement.

Michael Sam is not Jadeveon Clowney, despite how much some are trying to make him out to be. There's a legit reason he barely got drafted.

 

[Ivan]

My best friend is gay, I am an airline pilot most of my male work friends are gay. I go to gay clubs and bars regularly and have a great time as do many other straight men and women.

Gay or straight does not have anything to do with it. I do not think Michael Sam has the talent to play at the NFL level.

 

[Ivan]

And I'm pretty sure nobody had ever heard nor seem Michael Sam on this board prior to his announcement.

Michael Sam is not Jadeveon Clowney, despite how much some are trying to make him out to be. There's a legit reason he barely got drafted.

Other than the 2-3 people here who watch college football I am sure you are right.

 

[SB39]

So his achievements mean nothing in other words?

That's correct. When it comes to football, achievements at the college level are beyond worthless when looking at someone's potential as a professional. Every year they give the Heisman Trophy to the best college player in the country and many times that player fails in the pros.

Let me say that again to drive the point home: More often than not, the best player in all of college football is nothing more than a mediocre - or worse - player at the professional level.

 

[Ivan]

Oh no doubt most teams did but then it gets to a stage where it's like "come on, that guy over a someone who produced in the toughest conference by far in the nation."

As did Tim Tebow, as do many college players. It is a different game when they get to the pro's and while that in no way means Sam cannot succeed it does mean he needs the right defensive scheme to play in.

 

[Dingleberry]

I'm straight and i can't understand how a man/woman could be attracted to another of the same gender but at the same time if that person is a team mate and is helping us achieve then no way will i let something like that be held against them. THAT'S MY OPINION.

All of us who are even remotely evolved feel the exact same way. It seems like you are looking for a pat on the back, or a gold star for being tolerant.

Michael Sam is NOT a victim. Trying to portray him as one is doing him a disservice.

 

[shmessy]

Those combine numbers don't look good and i guess it's just a time will tell thing, but what if he goes and becomes a good player at this level and his numbers were as a result of lack of focus like many others have produced at the combine what's the excuse? Like i said we'll see but the early reasons as to why he's 249 when mock drafts had him rounds 3-6 is suspect to say the least.

To paraphrase a famous saying here in the States: 'Those who can't do, make mock drafts'.

 

[English Patriot]

All of us who are even remotely evolved feel the exact same way. It seems like you are looking for a pat on the back, or a gold star for being tolerant.

Michael Sam is NOT a victim. Trying to portray him as one is doing him a disservice.

Not looking for anything, the norm should be accept anyone. I don't want anything for it just trying to understand why some players would be taken over him when it seems they are not as good because that wouldn't make sense to me if that is the case.

If he truly isn't going to translate to the next level then so be it.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

It might not be that teams are prejudice against him.... they just don't want that media circus and/or trouble in the locker room.


Look at the Jonathan Martin thing last year. Coaches don't want to babysit players in the locker room and during their personal lives.

It's the same reason Johnny Manziel fell in the draft. Teams don't want to deal with the media circus surrounding him.

 

[Tunescribe]

Based on ability alone, Sam's chances of making the Rams' regular-season roster are less than 50 percent.

 

[SEA_Pat]

I don't get why Tim Tebow is the poster boy for "college stars who fail in the NFL". Didn't he play four years in the league and win a playoff game? That's WAY beyond the vast majority of QBs who are drafted. Why not use "Ryan Leaf" instead?

 

[JR4]

I'm straight and i can't understand how a man/woman could be attracted to another of the same gender but at the same time if that person is a team mate and is helping us achieve then no way will i let something like that be held against them. THAT'S MY OPINION.

Well that's my opinion also. But it seems our current culture has become one of intimidation towards
anyone who has expresses an opinion construed as anti-gay. "If you don't believe a gay man should be
part of a NFL locker room keep it to your self and don't utter a word about it" is how the media and NFL
are coming across these days. I believe many who come across this way are really closet anti-gays.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

So his achievements mean nothing in other words? You don't get those accolades without being at least good. Is Tom Brady HOF going off combine film?

His achievements are one of the many factors that go into their projection of how he will do as a pro. Some good college players are just not cut out for the NFL.

 

[English Patriot]

His achievements are one of the many factors that go into their projection of how he will do as a pro. Some good college players are just not cut out for the NFL.

Agree 100% but some on here actually think getting those makes you a bad player.

 

[patchick]

So his achievements mean nothing in other words? You don't get those accolades without being at least good. Is Tom Brady HOF going off combine film?

I think you just answered your own question by referencing Tom Brady. You know, the guy with a 20-5 record as a college starter, a perfect record in bowl games, the all-time Michigan record for completions in a season, and world-class leadership skills...but dreadful measurables? I'm pretty sure I don't have to remind you how low he was drafted.

Every year you see great college players get drafted far behind guys who did less on the field but who project better to the NFL. That's precisely what all those Combine measurables are for: projection. And teams pay attention to them for a reason.

A couple of years ago I did an analysis of Sam's position, DE/OLB. I compared an "All-Shorts Team" of prospects with the best measurables vs. an "All-Pads Team" of prospects with the best college production. The measurables guys had vastly better success in the NFL. No matter how many awards he won in college, a 6'2" player who puts up the worst VJ and 3-cone and reps and shuttle score of any DE at the Combine is a very poor NFL prospect.

Could Sam potentially outplay his draft position, as Brady did? Sure. But from where we sit today, I'll take Zach Moore. No prejudice required.

 

[English Patriot]

I think you just answered your own question by referencing Tom Brady. You know, the guy with a 20-5 record as a college starter, a perfect record in bowl games, the all-time Michigan record for completions in a season, and world-class leadership skills...but dreadful measurables? I'm pretty sure I don't have to remind you how low he was drafted.

Every year you see great college players get drafted far behind guys who did less on the field but who project better to the NFL. That's precisely what all those Combine measurables are for: projection. And teams pay attention to them for a reason.

A couple of years ago I did an analysis of Sam's position, DE/OLB. I compared an "All-Shorts Team" of prospects with the best measurables vs. an "All-Pads Team" of prospects with the best college production. The measurables guys had vastly better success in the NFL. No matter how many awards he won in college, a 6'2" player who puts up the worst VJ and 3-cone and reps and shuttle score of any DE at the Combine is a very poor NFL prospect.

Could Sam potentially outplay his draft position, as Brady did? Sure. But from where we sit today, I'll take Zach Moore. No prejudice required.

Good post. I prefer this answer to the personal attacks on me some neanderthals on this board like to post and hit the dislike button at every opportunity.

 

[borg]

Zach Moore:
6'5"
269lbs
4.84 40
23 bench press
33 1/2 vert
10'03" broad
4.46 20 yard shuttle
7.41 3 cone
33 3/4" arms

Michael Sam:
6'2"
261lbs
4.91 40
17 bench press
25 1/2 vert
9'06" broad
4.7 short shuttle
7.8 3 cone
33 3/8" arms

Moore is bigger, stronger, faster, more explosive (better vert & broad) & more agile and has longer arms. With all that in mind, the team likely saw him as a player with more upside and potential to coach up.

Moore is no slouch either, the competition may not have been great but he has the school record for sacks with 33.

This post times 10
It's not even close
Untapped potential vs a low ceiling.
Put Moore through a year of NFL weight training and fitness and this D2 project may stick around

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Good post. I prefer this answer to the personal attacks on me some neanderthals on this board like to post and hit the dislike button at every opportunity.

Sounds like you're an anti - Neanderthal.