Yet another Brady argument thread

[All3Phases]

The fact that they offered him more money than Tampa, and the fact that the guarantees were basically meaningless conflict with your agenda. The fact that he chose to leave, and would not give an answer about what it took to stay conflict with your agenda. The fact that he was negotiating with a division rival while under contract conflicts with your agenda.

You making up the contents of the Patriots offer is your counter, from somebody that hates reporting...This is rich
Again, you saying the offer and money was no different, then why didnt the Patriots just offer him 2/53 fully gtd? Wil. you answer this?

The patriots concern was structuring the deals so they could remain on top. If you are arguing Brady wanted to ensure he’s be paid for years after he could play, I just don’t believe you.

I didnt say that, clearly he wanted guaranteed money over multiple years, to ensure he had a commitment from the team. You saying it was stupid for him to want that is not my problem.

Your circular argument is that since Brady left and you think he didn’t want to despite every logical conclusion adding up to he chose to leave that whatever you invent as the reason was clearly why he left, because he left.

You dont like the contents of the book, so you read the last page.

Facts are he chose to leave.
In order to argue otherwise you have to enact all of the logically ignorant mental gymnastics so you can say “see I assume he left because if x and he left so x is true”.
I’m not sure what is funnier, how out of touch with reality you have stayed or the fact that you just keep digging a deeper hold because you must have the last word.
Entertaining at least. ,

Out of touch, like skipping 2 years of his career and negotiations, or thinking none of the beat reporting is ever accurate, because you dont want it to be.

 

[Ring 6]

You making up the contents of the Patriots offer is your counter, from somebody that hates reporting...This is rich
Again, you saying the offer and money was no different, then why didnt the Patriots just offer him 2/53 fully gtd? Wil. you answer this?

I didnt say that, clearly he wanted guaranteed money over multiple years, to ensure he had a commitment from the team. You saying it was stupid for him to want that is not my problem.

You dont like the contents of the book, so you read the last page.

Out of touch, like skipping 2 years of his career and negotiations, or thinking none of the beat reporting is ever accurate, because you dont want it to be.

I didn’t make anything up.
You said they offered 2/53 mill. You said your source is guaranteed correct.
You seem to think if you play 2 years on a 2/53 contract you make something other than 53.

I didn’t say anything was “no different” whatever that means.
I said if you have a contract that is 2/53 whether it is guaranteed or not you make 53 if you play 2 years. Are you saying that’s not the case?

I’m not sure whether it was guaranteed or not, it’s your boy’s report not mine.
Maybe it was. Since Brady didn’t want to stay and wouldn’t tell Kraft he would stay if they guaranteed it, maybe it was.
I assume it was but for cal purposes, maybe you can ask your boy.


A commitment from the team? So you are back to arguing he was afraid they would cut him after 2020 with no qb? He ain’t too bright if he wanted to stay and left because of that.


I read the whole book, with an open mind, that’s why I don’t need your rivulet logic to make things up to support my agenda.
It matters not to me whether Brady told the patriots to F off or they told him to. Brady is my favorite all time player. Because if what he did on the field. I am not emotionally crippled and need to blame someone. I love Brady being a patriot. When he no longer was, I was an adult and accepted it without crying about why. Ultimately, other than emotionally for some, or was best for both of them.

As far as your last comment yes you are out of touch. No I did not ignore anything I looked at the facts. There is no need to discuss the contracts he agreed to prior to him saying I quit. Which is what he did. Before the 2019 season even started. And I am consistent that I never consider opinion and rumor to be fact because someone who writes for a living thinks it. And quite the opposite of your misunderstanding I’ve never said it’s always wrong, I’ve said it’s opinion and not fact. You simply cannot take a fact and dismiss it because someone writes about a belief or a rumor. Which is exactly what you are doing. You want the team to be at fault. So you search for anything that supports that and if you like it, you believe it.

You have reduced your intellect to argue that Tom Brady who made 300 million dollars and was married to someone who made more really wanted to stay in New England but just couldn’t live with the second year of a 2 year contract not being guaranteed when the team had no one to replace him, he could go to any other team if they cut him and he can make more money as a broadcaster. Your need to prove your agenda led you to it’s all about money with a guy who it never was about money with, who didn’t need the money, and could get it elsewhere if anything went wrong. That is an indefensible position.

 

[All3Phases]

I didn’t make anything up.
You said they offered 2/53 mill. You said your source is guaranteed correct.
You seem to think if you play 2 years on a 2/53 contract you make something other than 53.

You seem to know the details of the contract, again, please share. You also seem to be able to see into alternate universes where you know what happens in different world scenarios

Please explain if the patriots offer was the same, why not guarantee the money. It makes no difference right?

I didn’t say anything was “no different” whatever that means.
I said if you have a contract that is 2/53 whether it is guaranteed or not you make 53 if you play 2 years. Are you saying that’s not the case?

Show me the details of the contract, and I will tell you if that’s the case, you’re also jumping to quite a conclusion thinking that he was going to be here a 2nd year under that deal

I’m not sure whether it was guaranteed or not, it’s your boy’s report not mine.

“My Boy”

Maybe it was. Since Brady didn’t want to stay and wouldn’t tell Kraft he would stay if they guaranteed it, maybe it was.
I assume it was but for cal purposes, maybe you can ask your boy.

“My Boy”

A commitment from the team? So you are back to arguing he was afraid they would cut him after 2020 with no qb? He ain’t too bright if he wanted to stay and left because of that.

I’m arguing that he wanted a commitment from the team and didn’t get one. Based on all of the reports from those close to the team and parties. You thinking it’s stupid is not a me problem

I read the whole book, with an open mind, that’s why I don’t need your rivulet logic to make things up to support my agenda.
It matters not to me whether Brady told the patriots to F off or they told him to. Brady is my favorite all time player. Because if what he did on the field. I am not emotionally crippled and need to blame someone. I love Brady being a patriot. When he no longer was, I was an adult and accepted it without crying about why. Ultimately, other than emotionally for some, or was best for both of them.

imagine having the best player on earth, and offering him a fraction of what he deserves? Sounds like the team wanted him

Sounded like Tom Sr thought the team showed him the door as well. Again, not exactly a credible source

As far as your last comment yes you are out of touch. No I did not ignore anything I looked at the facts. There is no need to discuss the contracts he agreed to prior to him saying I quit. Which is what he did. Before the 2019 season even started. And I am consistent that I never consider opinion and rumor to be fact because someone who writes for a living thinks it. And quite the opposite of your misunderstanding I’ve never said it’s always wrong, I’ve said it’s opinion and not fact. You simply cannot take a fact and dismiss it because someone writes about a belief or a rumor. Which is exactly what you are doing. You want the team to be at fault. So you search for anything that supports that and if you like it, you believe it.

You have reduced your intellect to argue that Tom Brady who made 300 million dollars and was married to someone who made more really wanted to stay in New England but just couldn’t live with the second year of a 2 year contract not being guaranteed when the team had no one to replace him, he could go to any other team if they cut him and he can make more money as a broadcaster. Your need to prove your agenda led you to it’s all about money with a guy who it never was about money with, who didn’t need the money, and could get it elsewhere if anything went wrong. That is an indefensible position.

You know it’s over when you argue that he didn’t want money because his wife is rich, really good point there. You telling Tom Brady how he should feel is definitely something

 

[Ring 6]

You seem to know the details of the contract, again, please share. You also seem to be able to see into alternate universes where you know what happens in different world scenarios

Please explain if the patriots offer was the same, why not guarantee the money. It makes no difference right?

Show me the details of the contract, and I will tell you if that’s the case, you’re also jumping to quite a conclusion thinking that he was going to be here a 2nd year under that deal

“My Boy”

“My Boy”

I’m arguing that he wanted a commitment from the team and didn’t get one. Based on all of the reports from those close to the team and parties. You thinking it’s stupid is not a me problem

imagine having the best player on earth, and offering him a fraction of what he deserves? Sounds like the team wanted him

Sounded like Tom Sr thought the team showed him the door as well. Again, not exactly a credible source

You know it’s over when you argue that he didn’t want money because his wife is rich, really good point there.

I don’t claim to know anything about the contract offer YOU say was made.
But I do know that a 2 year 53 mill contract pays 53 mill if you play 2 years. Just as I know 2+2=4. That’s all in this universe. Shocking that you are so obtuse about that.

As I’ve explained many times guarantees have different cap impacts.

You are the one who says there was an offer of 2/53. Now you are questioning it? But you can’t because your entire objective thought revolves are a writer said it so it’s true.
If you want to think the Patriots extend Brady for 20 and 21 then cut him after 20, go ahead, I’ll just laugh at you. Of course since he could make more broadcasting we know that year salary wasn’t the reason.

You are arguing he wanted a commitment when a non guaranteed 2 year contract for a starting qb with no replacement is basically the same thing because you need to twist that up to support your agenda. He wanted to leave, he wasn’t staying no matter the offer. He told Kraft that. You don’t like facts.

The offered him more money than he got on the open market, according to you.

You are arguing he really wanted to stay and left because of money when nothing else he has ever done indicates that’s his priority. Of course his wealth is a factor in that. And the fact that he could make more broadcasting is another point you keep dodging.

Over here in fact land you ignoring of facts and twisting of opinions to fit your wished for explanation has crumbled to a pile of dust.

 

[All3Phases]

I don’t claim to know anything about the contract offer YOU say was made.
But I do know that a 2 year 53 mill contract pays 53 mill if you play 2 years. Just as I know 2+2=4. That’s all in this universe. Shocking that you are so obtuse about that.

As I’ve explained many times guarantees have different cap impacts.

You are the one who says there was an offer of 2/53. Now you are questioning it? But you can’t because your entire objective thought revolves are a writer said it so it’s true.

I haven’t questioned anything Ring, I said we don’t know any of the details of the 2/53 and that there was no guarantee he plays year 2 or how much money he sees in that situation. You don’t want to accept that

If you want to think the Patriots extend Brady for 20 and 21 then cut him after 20, go ahead, I’ll just laugh at you. Of course since he could make more broadcasting we know that year salary wasn’t the reason.

“Rich guy shouldn’t make market value”

You are arguing he wanted a commitment when a non guaranteed 2 year contract for a starting qb with no replacement is basically the same thing because you need to twist that up to support your agenda. He wanted to leave, he wasn’t staying no matter the offer. He told Kraft that. You don’t like facts.

“Basically the same thing”. How long will it take you to answer as to why they didn’t just guarantee the money if it was basically the same thing? Wanna know why? Cause it wasn’t

The offered him more money than he got on the open market, according to you.

Show me the details

You are arguing he really wanted to stay and left because of money when nothing else he has ever done indicates that’s his priority. Of course his wealth is a factor in that. And the fact that he could make more broadcasting is another point you keep dodging.

I argued he wanted his market value over committed years, which was not offered here. He said he wanted to play until 45 for how long? Going year to year affects that don’t ya think? You can continue to tell me why Brady is stupid for wanting that though

Over here in fact land you ignoring of facts and twisting of opinions to fit your wished for explanation has crumbled to a pile of dust.

was it fact land where you disappeared to all year after realizing how the offense you argued so vehemently for all offseason, was neutered, simplified and dumbed down into oblivion, because the two guys coaching it had no idea what they were doing?

 

[Ring 6]

I haven’t questioned anything Ring, I said we don’t know any of the details of the 2/53 and that there was no guarantee he plays year 2 or how much money he sees in that situation. You don’t want to accept that

“Rich guy shouldn’t make market value”

“Basically the same thing”. How long will it take you to answer as to why they didn’t just guarantee the money if it was basically the same thing? Wanna know why? Cause it wasn’t

Show me the details

I argued he wanted his market value over committed years, which was not offered here. He said he wanted to play until 45 for how long? Going year to year affects that don’t ya think? You can continue to tell me why Brady is stupid for wanting that though

was it fact land where you disappeared to all year after realizing how the offense you argued so vehemently for all offseason, was neutered, simplified and dumbed down into oblivion, because the two guys coaching it had no idea what they were doing?

You are arguing with yourself.
You said he was offered 2 years and 53 million. I accepted that for the sake of the discussion.
Now you ask me to show you the details of the contract you told me they offered.
2 for 53 is market value, it’s more money than he signed for.
Your argument that he wanted to stay but he left because of that offer can only mean that whatever portion of the 53 mill was to be paid in year 2 was so important to him, and he so feared he would be cut and not sign with any other team to make it up, that TOM BRADY wouldn’t gamble on himself and needed assurances he could get paid for an extra year if no one wanted him.
That analysis doesn’t make Brady stupid, it makes you stupid for thinking it’s accurate. That’s the point. Brady isn’t stupid, your mental gymnastics to support your agenda are.
Of course Tom Brady takes 2/53 not guaranteed over 2/50 guaranteed if he is interested in staying. He wasn’t interested in staying. Instead of negotiating a contract extension with the Patriots he was having secret clandestine meetings with a division rival to plan his exit. Brady wasn’t negotiating with the Patriots in good faith because he wanted to leave. That why the answer to what can we do to keep you was NOTHING.

The details of the contract don’t matter because he wasn’t staying.


I didn’t disappear at all, I stopped posting because of the clown show this place become with whining little babies like you.
But the offense was still the same offense, as evidence by your failure to respond by citing a single concept or play package that was foreign to the offense before 2022. You like to use big words to mask it but you simply cannot define how it changed other than different people were selecting the plays and the game plans. As always you are all hyperbole and no substance.

 

[All3Phases]

You are arguing with yourself.
You said he was offered 2 years and 53 million. I accepted that for the sake of the discussion.
Now you ask me to show you the details of the contract you told me they offered.
2 for 53 is market value, it’s more money than he signed for.

Your rebuttal is assuming you know the details of the deal, how much money he sees each year and that he was guaranteed to be on the roster year 2 and beyond. My argument is that is not known, and clearly Brady wanted that commitment based on many reports

Your argument that he wanted to stay but he left because of that offer can only mean that whatever portion of the 53 mill was to be paid in year 2 was so important to him, and he so feared he would be cut and not sign with any other team to make it up, that TOM BRADY wouldn’t gamble on himself and needed assurances he could get paid for an extra year if no one wanted him.

You telling Tom Brady his thought process is stupid

That analysis doesn’t make Brady stupid, it makes you stupid for thinking it’s accurate. That’s the point. Brady isn’t stupid, your mental gymnastics to support your agenda are.

WHY DIDNT THE PATRIOTS GUARANTEE BOTH YEARS IF IT WAS THE SAME MONEY. They had multiple offseasons to do it.

Of course Tom Brady takes 2/53 not guaranteed over 2/50 guaranteed if he is interested in staying. He wasn’t interested in staying. Instead of negotiating a contract extension with the Patriots he was having secret clandestine meetings with a division rival to plan his exit. Brady wasn’t negotiating with the Patriots in good faith because he wanted to leave. That why the answer to what can we do to keep you was NOTHING.

Probably because he didn’t want another 1 year extension in which the 2/53 year deal probably was. Now you’re caught up. Remember Revis? Have I mentioned that? 2/32, team option for 20$ mil in 2015. Could’ve been the same structure as the Brady deal. For all we know year 1 could’ve been 10 million and year two could’ve been 43 million with a team option. Think they’re paying a 44 year old player that much in a year? Hence the guarantees

The details of the contract don’t matter because he wasn’t staying.

Prove it

I didn’t disappear at all, I stopped posting because of the clown show this place become with whining little babies like you.
But the offense was still the same offense, as evidence by your failure to respond by citing a single concept or play package that was foreign to the offense before 2022. You like to use big words to mask it but you simply cannot define how it changed other than different people were selecting the plays and the game plans. As always you are all hyperbole and no substance.

Yes, all the accounts of players, coaches and people who watched practice saying how much it was simplified are dummies, but the lone man In denial is the smart one. At least you admit you disappeared, it’s a start

We both agree, the Patriots barely used motion and play action in the past, so that did align with your point!

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

He said the contract was 2/53, without knowing any of the details...Not sure how that means Brady would be seeing all 53 mil of that based on the reporting. Again, he insinuated the team controlled his fate in the contract. I accept what Howe reported, I also accept it wasnt near the offer from TB.

Incorrect, 2/53 without guarantees is not the same as 2/50 fully guaranteed. You can continue to say Brady shouldnt have been afraid of being cut, thats speculation...He made the declaration that he wanted to play until he was 45 for how long? At 43, if an injury occurs and they replace him like Bledsoe...How is his career ending without the large chunk of money in year 2 of the deal? Again, we have no idea what wouldve happened, we do know the money wasnt guaranteed

Why didnt they offer a multi year guaranteed deal after the 2017 or 2018 season? They were afraid of his age and committing money to him, clearly...Its why they went year to year with the extensions. You think after 2 years of that, they felt like guaranteeing him 50 mil for 2 years?

The point is that haggling over money and all the other annoyances demonstrated that Tom had earned zero cred for his contributions, any fraction of which from twenty years would have been more than earned with an ownership and organization which did not have its head stuck up its ***.

 

[All3Phases]

The point is that haggling over money and all the other annoyances demonstrated that Tom had earned zero cred for his contributions, any fraction of which from twenty years would have been more than earned with an ownership and organization which did not have its head stuck up its ***.

Let’s use GB as an example here, seem like Rodgers and the packers have been at odds for years. He talks about retiring for multiple years, packers offered him a mega deal in his late 30s. They wanted him, so they decided to throw money at him, wonder if he would’ve signed the extension in GB if it was a 1 year deal for 10$ mil

 

[Ring 6]

The point is that haggling over money and all the other annoyances demonstrated that Tom had earned zero cred for his contributions, any fraction of which from twenty years would have been more than earned with an ownership and organization which did not have its head stuck up its ***.

Who says they haggled over money?
Are you suggesting a blank check was the right move?
The organization has an obligation to its long term success not just keeping a player happy. Ultimately Brady hit the bucs cap for 47 million over 3 years and they have 35 million dead money.
Do you think the Patriots with 47 million less to spend the last 3 years, given their state on 2019 into 2020 (they would have had to clear 25 million in 2020 but cutting players) would have had any chance to win a SB? Of course not, and now we’d be sitting on 35 mill of dead money.
Emotionally it would have been great to open the vault and not let Brady play for any other team but the franchise would have suffered.

 

[Ring 6]

Let’s use GB as an example here, seem like Rodgers and the packers have been at odds for years. He talks about retiring for multiple years, packers offered him a mega deal in his late 30s. They wanted him, so they decided to throw money at him, wonder if he would’ve signed the extension in GB if it was a 1 year deal for 10$ mil

Brady signed contracts here for 20 years. The offer you said they made him wasn’t 1 year 10 mill it was more money than he accepted on the open market.
How did paying rodgers all that money work out for the packers, btw?

 

[Ring 6]

Your rebuttal is assuming you know the details of the deal, how much money he sees each year and that he was guaranteed to be on the roster year 2 and beyond. My argument is that is not known, and clearly Brady wanted that commitment based on many reports

You telling Tom Brady his thought process is stupid

WHY DIDNT THE PATRIOTS GUARANTEE BOTH YEARS IF IT WAS THE SAME MONEY. They had multiple offseasons to do it.

Probably because he didn’t want another 1 year extension in which the 2/53 year deal probably was. Now you’re caught up. Remember Revis? Have I mentioned that? 2/32, team option for 20$ mil in 2015. Could’ve been the same structure as the Brady deal. For all we know year 1 could’ve been 10 million and year two could’ve been 43 million with a team option. Think they’re paying a 44 year old player that much in a year? Hence the guarantees

Prove it

Yes, all the accounts of players, coaches and people who watched practice saying how much it was simplified are dummies, but the lone man In denial is the smart one. At least you admit you disappeared, it’s a start

We both agree, the Patriots barely used motion and play action in the past, so that did align with your point!

No, your dodge is saying you think I am saying I know the details. I’ve never said that.
Brady wanted to leave. The details didn’t matter.

I’m telling you that your creation of what you think Tom Brady’s thought process is is stupid. I’m not discussing Tom Brady’s thought process, he hasn’t shared it with me. I’m discussing how the version of thought process that you ascribe to him is stupid.
Here’s an analogy. If you tell me you think that Joe Biden thinks the best thing for America is to add a 10% payroll tax and use it to pay reparations, I say that’s a stupid idea. That doesn’t mean Joe Biden is stupid because you made up the idea and scribed it to him.


I’m beginning to think you cannot read. I’ve answered at least 5 times that the difference in guaranteeing vs not guaranteeing is how it affects the cap.

Still can’t come up with a single concept that was used in 2022 that was new to the offense I see. Can you name one that was removed?

 

[All3Phases]

Brady signed contracts here for 20 years. The offer you said they made him wasn’t 1 year 10 mill it was more money than he accepted on the open market.
How did paying rodgers all that money work out for the packers, btw?

Again, you have no idea the structure of the Brady deal. Reportedly he wanted a Multi year commitment for some time, and was playing for incentives after he won the MVP in 2017. That’s a far cry from offering your old qb over 50$ mil a year right? The team definitely wanted Brady though, sounds about right

 

[All3Phases]

Who says they haggled over money?
Are you suggesting a blank check was the right move?
The organization has an obligation to its long term success not just keeping a player happy. Ultimately Brady hit the bucs cap for 47 million over 3 years and they have 35 million dead money.
Do you think the Patriots with 47 million less to spend the last 3 years, given their state on 2019 into 2020 (they would have had to clear 25 million in 2020 but cutting players) would have had any chance to win a SB? Of course not, and now we’d be sitting on 35 mill of dead money.
Emotionally it would have been great to open the vault and not let Brady play for any other team but the franchise would have suffered.

It definitely worked out for the patriots, they’re under .500 after 3 years, missed the playoffs 2/3 years, can’t win games if their defense doesn’t dominate, and have no idea if they need to draft another qb and restart the process. Ya that dead money sacrifice would’ve sucked!

 

[Ring 6]

Again, you have no idea the structure of the Brady deal. Reportedly he wanted a Multi year commitment for some time, and was playing for incentives after he won the MVP in 2017. That’s a far cry from offering your old qb over 50$ mil a year right? The team definitely wanted Brady though, sounds about right

It doesn’t matter. While they were making the offer he was covertly negotiating with Miami.
If he wanted to stay, when asked what do we need to do, he would not have said nothing.

 

[Ring 6]

It definitely worked out for the patriots, they’re under .500 after 3 years, missed the playoffs 2/3 years, can’t win games if their defense doesn’t dominate, and have no idea if they need to draft another qb and restart the process. Ya that dead money sacrifice would’ve sucked!

Yes it would have. They would not have won a championship and would be in worse shape today. But hey emotionally it would have been great.

 

[All3Phases]

It doesn’t matter. While they were making the offer he was covertly negotiating with Miami.
If he wanted to stay, when asked what do we need to do, he would not have said nothing.

Nothing matters, getting ahead of the situation doesn’t matter rather than insulting him after winning MVPs and super bowls. The only thing that matters were words uttered to the owner, and as a good organization like the patriots, didn’t even attempt to extend an offer matching the Bucs offer. At least they tried! Money talks, ask Green Bay

 

[All3Phases]

Yes it would have. They would not have won a championship and would be in worse shape today. But hey emotionally it would have been great.

You love facts, yet choose which facts you want to use. Let me know which alternate universe you peered into to see how 2020-2023 play out with Brady

 

[Ring 6]

You love facts, yet choose which facts you want to use. Let me know which alternate universe you peered into to see how 2020-2023 play out with Brady

Common sense. The 2019 team wasn’t close to a championship. The cap issues caused a step backward in 2020. Had we needed to count the 25 mill on our cap for Brady that Tampa did, we would have had to release other players. We wouldn’t have had nearly the room for free agency in 2021.
Last year would have been the beginning of a rebuild and this year we would be eating 35 million.

 

[Ring 6]

Nothing matters, getting ahead of the situation doesn’t matter rather than insulting him after winning MVPs and super bowls. The only thing that matters were words uttered to the owner, and as a good organization like the patriots, didn’t even attempt to extend an offer matching the Bucs offer. At least they tried! Money talks, ask Green Bay

He was under contract and negotiating with Miami.
How was he insulted? Your 100% iron clad has to be true because a writer said it, answer is they offered him more money than he signed with Tampa for. How is the most most insulting?
Ask Green Bay what? If in hindsight they wish they didn’t pay Rodgers all that money for nothing? I know that answer already.
But if it’s only about money, why did Rodgers leave? He got paid and said the same FU to the packers that Brady said to the Patriots. So I guess it’s not about money huh?