Would Haynesworth make a good 3-4 DE?

[pats1]

Did you just call Haynesworth "cost effective"?

At three years and $16 million, Haynesworth contract is now very tradeable | ProFootballTalk.com

As to the point, Haynesworth projects more to a NT in the 3-4 at 350 lbs. But ideally he's a 4-3 DT.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You ever actually watched the guy play? You can't get hung up on someone's size when discussing what position they are going to play. There is more to football than height and weight. Guys like Welker, Brees, and Ngata are living proof of that (Ngata is a "prototypical" 345 lb 3-4 NT who is also an excellent 3-4 DE).

Yes, Haynesworth is 350 lbs, but he's quite mobile for that size, which explains why he is often viewed as a penetrating defensive tackle. Which also explains why he doesn't want to play nose.

As for the contract numbers, read my previous post. He is no where near as expensive as you believe.

Yes, he is. Read my posts on that topic. Over and above his salary for the next three seasons, $9M of which is guaranteed, he was due a $21M option bonus on April 1 (and was only offered in the McNabb trade early in the discussions, back around 3/30 per Schefter, because that was before the option due date). That option bonus was "guaranteed" which means either the Skins have now already paid it on April 1 and will therefore want a boatload of comepensation in return in the form of draft picks and/or players or they opted not to exercise the option which, because it's guaranteed, means they still owe it to him in salary this season. Or whomever they traded him to would.

 

[patsfan-1982]

he is a 4-3 DT that is overrated and over paid. and has a big mouth.



28 sacks in 8 years is not a impact player and he sure as hell ant worth 100 million. warren sapp had over 70 sacks at DT in he's first 8 years. that is a impact player. Richard Seymour, in that same time has 40 sacks playing in a 2 gap system.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

At three years and $16 million, Haynesworth contract is now very tradeable | ProFootballTalk.com

As to the point, Haynesworth projects more to a NT in the 3-4 at 350 lbs. But ideally he's a 4-3 DT.

The question is whether and to what extent the Redskins would want reimbursement of the money paid last week. And that question depends on whether the Redskins prefer cash or draft picks -- and whether the teams that want him are willing to give up cash or draft picks.

This isn't MLB. You cannot reimburse money paid on trades in the NFL. So unless someone wants to "reimburse" the Skins for paying Haynesworth $21M in 2010 via multiple draft picks, he remains untradeable due to cost in draft compensation... He was only available for essentially a 2nd rounder (McNabb) BEFORE the option bonus was due. And Philly passed on that deal. Now they would have to get at least a first and second and maybe more before Snyder can unload a player he essentially has paid $32M for one season...

So while Haynesworth's contract is now very tradeable, the player still isn't...

 

[Rob0729]

You ever actually watched the guy play? You can't get hung up on someone's size when discussing what position they are going to play. There is more to football than height and weight. Guys like Welker, Brees, and Ngata are living proof of that (Ngata is a "prototypical" 345 lb 3-4 NT who is also an excellent 3-4 DE).

Yes, Haynesworth is 350 lbs, but he's quite mobile for that size, which explains why he is often viewed as a penetrating defensive tackle. Which also explains why he doesn't want to play nose.

As for the contract numbers, read my previous post. He is no where near as expensive as you believe.

The guy is quick for a 350lb lineman, but he is slow compared to most top 300lb linemen. Good thing you brought up Ngata because he proves my point. Ngata is a NT who plays DE on a situational basis. Neither Ngata or Haynesworth could hold up playing 16 games at DE. They are too heavy to handle that workload and are slow for a guy who would play at that weight at the 290-310 range.

As for the contract numbers, I never said anything other than stating the that if the Redskins trade him without getting all or part of his roster bonus back that they would have paid him around $27 million for one year of service. In fact, I hear that the salary for the guy if traded for the next three years is only $16 million in total or roughtly $5.33 million year. That is if the Redskins do not look to recoupe the $21 million roster bonus they paid him last month.

Haynesworth is not a DE. He is a quick 4-3 DT or 3-4 NT, but that doesn't make him a quick 3-4 DE and certainly his weight would definitely be a risk to his staminia for the position. Just because he is quick at one position doesn't mean he would be quick for another position. I'm sure if he was a CB, he would be the slowest CB in history. Yes, I know that is an extreme example.

 

[Rob0729]

Yes, he is. Read my posts on that topic. Over and above his salary for the next three seasons, $9M of which is guaranteed, he was due a $21M option bonus on April 1 (and was only offered in the McNabb trade early in the discussions, back around 3/30 per Schefter, because that was before the option due date). That option bonus was "guaranteed" which means either the Skins have now already paid it on April 1 and will therefore want a boatload of comepensation in return in the form of draft picks and/or players or they opted not to exercise the option which, because it's guaranteed, means they still owe it to him in salary this season. Or whomever they traded him to would.

The Redskins have already paid that bonus. They could get a new team to pick up that bonus, but not if they want any trade value with him. I wouldn't put it past Snyder trading him and ending up paying Haynesworth nearly $30 million for one disapointing year of service.

 

[PatriotReign75]

That's why he wants out of Washington as many of you have stated.....Wash deserves what they get w/ that guy, they just paid him a 21million roster bonus.Dan Snyder you boob!!!!!

 

[TripleOption]

Haynesworth could be very good as a 3-4 DE, yes. But he's expensive as hell, a malcontent, and he's already made it very clear that he's not interested in playing the position, so... wtf is the point of this thread?

Absolutely. Physically, he is like Seymour in his prime. He is nearly unblockable if he is motivated. He's just not motivated all that often.

 

[supafly]

Rumors out that with Sheldon Brown gone and only Hobbs as a viable CB opposite Samuel,The Eagles are seriously looking to make a deal with the Raiders for Asomugha..Maybe they use some of those extra draft picks in the deal if they choose to follow up on this rumor or use extra picks to drive up and nab Berry.

These were their CB's after trading Sheldon Brown:

Asante Samuel

Marlin Jackson--signed in FA

Joselio Hanson--extremely high on--jumped Lito Sheppard while he was there on depth chart, played mostly nickel last year

Ellis Hobbs

Macho Harris--has played CB, move has been considered to nickel back-another guy they're pretty high on

They are also rumored to be persuing Javier Arenas in the draft.

I really doubt they'd trade for Asomugha, but you never know. I don't think Hobbs' job is as much as a given as you may think, as viable as I think he is, there seems to be a lot of good competition there.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The Redskins have already paid that bonus. They could get a new team to pick up that bonus, but not if they want any trade value with him. I wouldn't put it past Snyder trading him and ending up paying Haynesworth nearly $30 million for one disapointing year of service.

No, they can't. Again, this isn't MLB. Teams are not allowed to trade/include cash in player deals. Once you pay bonus money of any kind it is in the players hands and on your books to stay. The only way that would not be the case is if they haven't paid it yet meaning they failed to exercise a "guaranteed" option which means it is now built into his 2010 salary. The Patriots gave Seymour a "guaranteed" option back in 2006. $18M. Had they not picked it up (and then prorated it over the life of the deal) his 2007 salary was going to baloon to $19M+.

 

[eom]

These were their CB's after trading Sheldon Brown:

Asante Samuel

Marlin Jackson--signed in FA

Joselio Hanson--extremely high on--jumped Lito Sheppard while he was there on depth chart, played mostly nickel last year

Ellis Hobbs

Macho Harris--has played CB, move has been considered to nickel back-another guy they're pretty high on

They are also rumored to be persuing Javier Arenas in the draft.

I really doubt they'd trade for Asomugha, but you never know. I don't think Hobbs' job is as much as a given as you may think, as viable as I think he is, there seems to be a lot of good competition there.

as far as I know, the raiders have just paid asomugha a bonus of something like 16m for this year.
I don't really see him getting traded to some team while oakland is paying his freight.

 

[ALP]

if u have vince and haynseworth on the same team....

ur a 4-3 team period

 

[patsinthesnow]

if u have vince and haynseworth on the same team....

ur a 4-3 team period

LOL, you could play a 2-5 Defense with those two giants.

 

[ALP]

LOL, you could play a 2-5 Defense with those two giants.

actually.....is that that bad of an idea? well have 3 starting safeties... and 4 lb's....

1 or 2 of them pass rush specialists....i actually kind of like it, if the two beasts can hold their own against the line more or less, and fill the gaps in the middle....

 

[BradyFTW!]

actually.....is that that bad of an idea? well have 3 starting safeties... and 4 lb's....

1 or 2 of them pass rush specialists....i actually kind of like it, if the two beasts can hold their own against the line more or less, and fill the gaps in the middle....

Haynesworth and Wilfork are really good, no doubt, but neither one of them is going to command a consistent triple team. Nobody in the league would. Besides, what would you do with Ty Warren?

 

[patsinthesnow]

Haynesworth and Wilfork are really good, no doubt, but neither one of them is going to command a consistent triple team. Nobody in the league would. Besides, what would you do with Ty Warren?

Haha, yeah it wouldn't make sense. Is there even a 2-5 defense package being used in the NFL. I know the 1-5-5 defense from madden, but does any team actually use it? Maybe with large leads.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Haha, yeah it wouldn't make sense. Is there even a 2-5 defense package being used in the NFL. I know the 1-5-5 defense from madden, but does any team actually use it? Maybe with large leads.

The Pats do occasionally run whacky formations where they'll have 1-2 down linemen and a bunch of guys standing up, but it's pretty much strictly for confusion. It's definitely nothing even close to a regular formation.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Vince has played DE very effectively (against Long of the Dolphins) and remember that Vince can rush the passer given some space. That would be a brutal of line; just plain brutal. Warren, Haynesworth, Wilfork; the three horsemen of the apocalypse. Ooops that would be Four..oh nevermind...

 

[BradyFTW!]

Vince has played DE very effectively (against Long of the Dolphins) and remember that Vince can rush the passer given some space. That would be a brutal of line; just plain brutal. Warren, Haynesworth, Wilfork; the three horsemen of the apocalypse. Ooops that would be Four..oh nevermind...

Vince does not rush the passer. 40 pounds ago, maybe, but not anymore. About once per season he manages to plow through someone and eat a QB for lunch, but the only reason he was playing DE against the Dolphins is because they were running behind Long and he can stop the run from anywhere. Had nothing to do with pass rush, no matter how much space he has. In a hypothetical Warren > Wilfork > Haynesworth line, Haynesworth would take Seymour's old spot.

 

[ALP]

Haynesworth and Wilfork are really good, no doubt, but neither one of them is going to command a consistent triple team. Nobody in the league would. Besides, what would you do with Ty Warren?

thats why youll have 1 or 2 big lb's....

if both haynsworth and vince took up 2 O lineman, let one lb take up anothre, and another lb take up a TE if there is one....and the other 3-4 lb's and box safety fill the gaps and take on the runner