2020 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: at Bills
Pick Results: NE: 35.3% at BUF: 64.7%
Sun
Nov 1st

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:

BaconGrundleCandy

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I prefer some of his other trade ideas than the one he made for us...Dede Westbrook for a 7th-rounder e.g.
If I were to do anything it would most likely be for 6th-7th. I want all our picks. We'll have five 3rd's/4th's. I already want to trade up for two 2nds.
I enjoyed his trade suppositions, I wonder if he missed 2 opportunities to improve the TE position. With Dugger's fast start, he makes Terrance Brooks available and I think he'd be a better fit for Cleveland than what he gave the Browns and we'd get N'jokuo. A win-win for both teams. And if the going price for Jacob Hollister is a bag of donuts, why not here? And at WR, I think I'd rather Kenny Stills than Ross.
I think the QB trades make sense? Indy might be able to salvage Darnold and he could sit, learn behind Rivers for half a year. Idk I feel bad for those guys. Rosen too. Get drafted by terrible franchises going through change and get caught up in it.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter

3rd play is pretty nice. 230lbs on a whip route then a easy spin.

Shenault & Claypool were on my PTP Big board
And Duvernay ... If I'm Baltimore I'm calling Dallas about Gallup. They need another reliable WR. Preferably one that can adjust, catch through contact. Go get him or call Atlanta about Jones?
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Definitely get were you're coming from. I believe these #'s would probably be reflected league wide tbh. I think the only way it works is if one had top tier rec skills. I wonder how much we see Bell/CEH together but I can absolutely see that working bc both great at rec and can run legit routes. They're unfair, so much talent. But yeah I think you need an elite rec back to make 2RB work. Ideally it would be Rex & White for us?

It would be something I'd use early on.
Yep Burkhead is the lynchpin of the 2-Back look because he can be used with both White & Harris/Michel to make the defense account for either run or pass...Kinda how having versatile TEs are supposed to work too, except not here of course...
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Shenault & Claypool were on my PTP Big board

And Duvernay ... If I'm Baltimore I'm calling Dallas about Gallup. They need another reliable WR. Preferably one that can adjust, catch through contact. Go get him or call Atlanta about Jones?
I'm ok with by-passing Shenault at 37; his injury history precluded me from ever considering him there...I do wish however that he, or preferably Chase Claypool, or even Van Jefferson had been available at 60/71...Disappointed how fast the WRs were scooped during days 1 & 2...
 
Last edited:

BaconGrundleCandy

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Bits of Bacon ...

The OL moved around, a lot. Early on, seemingly so Herron wasn't put inside, then we had injuries and were already injured coming in to the game. That's a lot to ask and overcome. In Wynn's case I'm not sure when he got practice reps at G. No matter this unit looked a little slower, out of sorts and as a result, so did our offense. They almost looked jetlagged. We were late pulling, slow off the ball, slow all-around. Flat. Couldn't get any push up front but more than anything were out of sync. Wynn & Thuney are borderline elite on the left side. More than anything its their communication & unspoken communication on pressure. They would seamlessly pass off players, know who's looping/penetrating, recognize delayed stuff. Our OL was guessing and uncomfortable. Fangio knew it and dialed up some decent pressure looks and we didn't respond well at all.

Cam - Communication/Understanding - was off between QB & OL. You'll hear different teams shout out different stuff. All that "54 is the Mike" , "Rita, Rita" , "Turbo" is just protection calls to one side or we, ID a blitz, speed up a play, kill a play and specifically for pressure, so who knows what. QB are responsible for guys as well. To move them off a spot with their eyes, maybe a fake or just know who's unblocked on a blitz so they can plan accordingly when it happens. That's exactly what we saw with an unblocked DE crashing in. That's on Cam, he's left unblocked by design. I think we saw another one as well. He also took a few sacks where he either held on too long or just showed no awareness at all. OL got beat today but Cam made look worse than they were in some instances.

Eyes/Discipline - I've mentioned this a few times but Cam's passes are being telegraphed. Most of our stuff is short so that's where they're going but teams know we have nothing deep. Depending on personnel you can make a good guess which area of the field is being targeted. Those short ones have to be timed better. This is like 10 batted passes so far. Our OL have to make the "jumpers" , guys that jump, pay. Make sure they end up on the ground after leaving their feet. But mostly it's on Cam. That's where peripheral vision, trust and situational awareness.

Mechanics/Speed - He's slow getting set and it seems like that's been an issue off/on, more or less all year. Feet/base, lower half to trigger takes a bit to long. Release point/launch point is an issue on different passes. Short, deep middle, out are off at times. Wouldn't be a bad thing if accuracy & timing weren't issues. You see this from different QB's but again it's about being comfortable and actually completing passes. Some times you need to slow things down a bit and just roll with the tempo depending on the game but those quick hits are dependent on time/space. You want the ball out as quick as possible to give your man a chance. You can't be loafing balls and not expect 4-5 guys to be at the ball by the time our guys has it secure enough to make a move. Again though after he has to reset its a problem.

He has to be quicker getting set and when he has to move/adjust. Too often I'm watching his base struggle when moved off his spot or looking to move, get set etc. Release point has been an issue at times throughout his career. Saw small examples today. Pocket awareness/presence. Accuracy. He's been through a ton the last few weeks and obviously wants to be here, on the field. So it's tough to criticize but he was bad today.

WR/TE - I'm not sure I want to get into this here but it couldn't be more evident this team is desperate for help. 1st, 2nd round picks spent very recently. AB, Gordon, Kobi Myers, Gunna ... This team has been searching for help for years and it's getting frustrating. I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong and I was on Harry. That said there have been plenty of other available or within a trade up, reasonable trade ups. I know we can't draft everyone but we're passing over many guys that were Patriot-Types. Dugger & Williams really have to pan out. We passed on AJ Brown, DK, Hardman, Laviska Shenault, Claypool, McLaurin ... I'll be posting a lot more in the draft forum on upcoming classes/needs but it's more than clear it's a problem. We have no one to target, no one to make a play or make it happen.
I remember looking at our depth chart and contracts before Harry and we were in trouble. Also and I'm not trying to pretend I know more or am preaching to Bill but the draft is about finding out where value and need meet. This isn't that ... If you take a K before 6/7th round you have to hit. Johnson was great value and had a 3rd round skill set/profile imo. IMG_20201018_194005.jpg


Coaching - The play calling is tough to get excited about bc we only have so much to work with. Look at our parts. They're just not there so I understand that but some of the stuff was just random and not what the situation called for imo. The 2 point conversion. Condensed with limited options to target in the field. Tough look and this is another conversation but we need some playmakers. Enough is enough. I get the frustration with the play calling though. Just think our personnel is tough to work with.

All year Bill was daring teams to beat us by running the ball. He'd line up 1/2 IDL, two edge-types, a bunch of DB's and dare teams to beat us. All year they either couldn't or abandoned the run like Oak, Sea. He was comfortable in his DB's tackling and today Denver didn't flinch with 30+ rushes to 25 passes/attempts I believe. For 130+ yards on the ground.
In hindsight very smart with Lock so unstable. His first game back after a few weeks. He could have easily tossed 2-3 other picks if he held on to them or if he was asked to pass more.

The 3rd down/FG I understand both sides. I think Bill was thinking we needed to score TDs anyway and needed the ball back asap. If they pick up the 1st down we're losing out on a lot of time but again get both sides. Denver was having trouble and again Lock looked shakey all game.

Non-challenge.

We didn't adjust as well as we should/could have imo but again this goes back to personnel. Denver didn't respect our ability to beat them deep or even pass tbh. Their DL was teeing off on passes all day. This result was their S playing up a lot of the day. Where was the PA (play action), double moves or quick hitters to the MOF? Slants/crossers, I saw a few mesh concepts. Maybe it was just the way the game went but that was annoying.

Mike Ojemudia (rookie), Shelby Harris, Chubb, Simmons all played well for Denver. I thought Jon Jones, Bentley & Gilmore played well for us.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I feel like these guys have always been here for a minute but teams are just more comfortable taking them on. Integrating them into the offense.

This is where the league has been heading and will be for the next year. I remember talking about the RB influx 3-4 years ago and we're in this the middle of something like that with WR's. 2018- 2021 were/are full of great WR's. Hopefully we grab a few this year.
 

Patsgofor4

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Bits of Bacon ...

The OL moved around, a lot. Early on, seemingly so Herron wasn't put inside, then we had injuries and were already injured coming in to the game. That's a lot to ask and overcome. In Wynn's case I'm not sure when he got practice reps at G. No matter this unit looked a little slower, out of sorts and as a result, so did our offense. They almost looked jetlagged. We were late pulling, slow off the ball, slow all-around. Flat. Couldn't get any push up front but more than anything were out of sync. Wynn & Thuney are borderline elite on the left side. More than anything its their communication & unspoken communication on pressure. They would seamlessly pass off players, know who's looping/penetrating, recognize delayed stuff. Our OL was guessing and uncomfortable. Fangio knew it and dialed up some decent pressure looks and we didn't respond well at all.

Cam - Communication/Understanding - was off between QB & OL. You'll hear different teams shout out different stuff. All that "54 is the Mike" , "Rita, Rita" , "Turbo" is just protection calls to one side or we, ID a blitz, speed up a play, kill a play and specifically for pressure, so who knows what. QB are responsible for guys as well. To move them off a spot with their eyes, maybe a fake or just know who's unblocked on a blitz so they can plan accordingly when it happens. That's exactly what we saw with an unblocked DE crashing in. That's on Cam, he's left unblocked by design. I think we saw another one as well. He also took a few sacks where he either held on too long or just showed no awareness at all. OL got beat today but Cam made look worse than they were in some instances.

Eyes/Discipline - I've mentioned this a few times but Cam's passes are being telegraphed. Most of our stuff is short so that's where they're going but teams know we have nothing deep. Depending on personnel you can make a good guess which area of the field is being targeted. Those short ones have to be timed better. This is like 10 batted passes so far. Our OL have to make the "jumpers" , guys that jump, pay. Make sure they end up on the ground after leaving their feet. But mostly it's on Cam. That's where peripheral vision, trust and situational awareness.

Mechanics/Speed - He's slow getting set and it seems like that's been an issue off/on, more or less all year. Feet/base, lower half to trigger takes a bit to long. Release point/launch point is an issue on different passes. Short, deep middle, out are off at times. Wouldn't be a bad thing if accuracy & timing weren't issues. You see this from different QB's but again it's about being comfortable and actually completing passes. Some times you need to slow things down a bit and just roll with the tempo depending on the game but those quick hits are dependent on time/space. You want the ball out as quick as possible to give your man a chance. You can't be loafing balls and not expect 4-5 guys to be at the ball by the time our guys has it secure enough to make a move. Again though after he has to reset its a problem.

He has to be quicker getting set and when he has to move/adjust. Too often I'm watching his base struggle when moved off his spot or looking to move, get set etc. Release point has been an issue at times throughout his career. Saw small examples today. Pocket awareness/presence. Accuracy. He's been through a ton the last few weeks and obviously wants to be here, on the field. So it's tough to criticize but he was bad today.

WR/TE - I'm not sure I want to get into this here but it couldn't be more evident this team is desperate for help. 1st, 2nd round picks spent very recently. AB, Gordon, Kobi Myers, Gunna ... This team has been searching for help for years and it's getting frustrating. I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong and I was on Harry. That said there have been plenty of other available or within a trade up, reasonable trade ups. I know we can't draft everyone but we're passing over many guys that were Patriot-Types. Dugger & Williams really have to pan out. We passed on AJ Brown, DK, Hardman, Laviska Shenault, Claypool, McLaurin ... I'll be posting a lot more in the draft forum on upcoming classes/needs but it's more than clear it's a problem. We have no one to target, no one to make a play or make it happen.
I remember looking at our depth chart and contracts before Harry and we were in trouble. Also and I'm not trying to pretend I know more or am preaching to Bill but the draft is about finding out where value and need meet. This isn't that ... If you take a K before 6/7th round you have to hit. Johnson was great value and had a 3rd round skill set/profile imo. View attachment 28992


Coaching - The play calling is tough to get excited about bc we only have so much to work with. Look at our parts. They're just not there so I understand that but some of the stuff was just random and not what the situation called for imo. The 2 point conversion. Condensed with limited options to target in the field. Tough look and this is another conversation but we need some playmakers. Enough is enough. I get the frustration with the play calling though. Just think our personnel is tough to work with.

All year Bill was daring teams to beat us by running the ball. He'd line up 1/2 IDL, two edge-types, a bunch of DB's and dare teams to beat us. All year they either couldn't or abandoned the run like Oak, Sea. He was comfortable in his DB's tackling and today Denver didn't flinch with 30+ rushes to 25 passes/attempts I believe. For 130+ yards on the ground.
In hindsight very smart with Lock so unstable. His first game back after a few weeks. He could have easily tossed 2-3 other picks if he held on to them or if he was asked to pass more.

The 3rd down/FG I understand both sides. I think Bill was thinking we needed to score TDs anyway and needed the ball back asap. If they pick up the 1st down we're losing out on a lot of time but again get both sides. Denver was having trouble and again Lock looked shakey all game.

Non-challenge.

We didn't adjust as well as we should/could have imo but again this goes back to personnel. Denver didn't respect our ability to beat them deep or even pass tbh. Their DL was teeing off on passes all day. This result was their S playing up a lot of the day. Where was the PA (play action), double moves or quick hitters to the MOF? Slants/crossers, I saw a few mesh concepts. Maybe it was just the way the game went but that was annoying.

Mike Ojemudia (rookie), Shelby Harris, Chubb, Simmons all played well for Denver. I thought Jon Jones, Bentley & Gilmore played well for us.
Taking Rohrwasser obviously looks like a major blunder at this point. Johnson was widely considered to be good value in the 5th and he would have been a better pick but he is not exactly lighting the world on fire so far, even with the injury issues Tampa has had at WR. 5/68/1 through 6 games...let's not put him into Canton just yet.
 

BelizePats

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Bits of Bacon ...

The OL moved around, a lot. Early on, seemingly so Herron wasn't put inside, then we had injuries and were already injured coming in to the game. That's a lot to ask and overcome. In Wynn's case I'm not sure when he got practice reps at G. No matter this unit looked a little slower, out of sorts and as a result, so did our offense. They almost looked jetlagged. We were late pulling, slow off the ball, slow all-around. Flat. Couldn't get any push up front but more than anything were out of sync. Wynn & Thuney are borderline elite on the left side. More than anything its their communication & unspoken communication on pressure. They would seamlessly pass off players, know who's looping/penetrating, recognize delayed stuff. Our OL was guessing and uncomfortable. Fangio knew it and dialed up some decent pressure looks and we didn't respond well at all.

Cam - Communication/Understanding - was off between QB & OL. You'll hear different teams shout out different stuff. All that "54 is the Mike" , "Rita, Rita" , "Turbo" is just protection calls to one side or we, ID a blitz, speed up a play, kill a play and specifically for pressure, so who knows what. QB are responsible for guys as well. To move them off a spot with their eyes, maybe a fake or just know who's unblocked on a blitz so they can plan accordingly when it happens. That's exactly what we saw with an unblocked DE crashing in. That's on Cam, he's left unblocked by design. I think we saw another one as well. He also took a few sacks where he either held on too long or just showed no awareness at all. OL got beat today but Cam made look worse than they were in some instances.

Eyes/Discipline - I've mentioned this a few times but Cam's passes are being telegraphed. Most of our stuff is short so that's where they're going but teams know we have nothing deep. Depending on personnel you can make a good guess which area of the field is being targeted. Those short ones have to be timed better. This is like 10 batted passes so far. Our OL have to make the "jumpers" , guys that jump, pay. Make sure they end up on the ground after leaving their feet. But mostly it's on Cam. That's where peripheral vision, trust and situational awareness.

Mechanics/Speed - He's slow getting set and it seems like that's been an issue off/on, more or less all year. Feet/base, lower half to trigger takes a bit to long. Release point/launch point is an issue on different passes. Short, deep middle, out are off at times. Wouldn't be a bad thing if accuracy & timing weren't issues. You see this from different QB's but again it's about being comfortable and actually completing passes. Some times you need to slow things down a bit and just roll with the tempo depending on the game but those quick hits are dependent on time/space. You want the ball out as quick as possible to give your man a chance. You can't be loafing balls and not expect 4-5 guys to be at the ball by the time our guys has it secure enough to make a move. Again though after he has to reset its a problem.

He has to be quicker getting set and when he has to move/adjust. Too often I'm watching his base struggle when moved off his spot or looking to move, get set etc. Release point has been an issue at times throughout his career. Saw small examples today. Pocket awareness/presence. Accuracy. He's been through a ton the last few weeks and obviously wants to be here, on the field. So it's tough to criticize but he was bad today.

WR/TE - I'm not sure I want to get into this here but it couldn't be more evident this team is desperate for help. 1st, 2nd round picks spent very recently. AB, Gordon, Kobi Myers, Gunna ... This team has been searching for help for years and it's getting frustrating. I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong and I was on Harry. That said there have been plenty of other available or within a trade up, reasonable trade ups. I know we can't draft everyone but we're passing over many guys that were Patriot-Types. Dugger & Williams really have to pan out. We passed on AJ Brown, DK, Hardman, Laviska Shenault, Claypool, McLaurin ... I'll be posting a lot more in the draft forum on upcoming classes/needs but it's more than clear it's a problem. We have no one to target, no one to make a play or make it happen.
I remember looking at our depth chart and contracts before Harry and we were in trouble. Also and I'm not trying to pretend I know more or am preaching to Bill but the draft is about finding out where value and need meet. This isn't that ... If you take a K before 6/7th round you have to hit. Johnson was great value and had a 3rd round skill set/profile imo. View attachment 28992


Coaching - The play calling is tough to get excited about bc we only have so much to work with. Look at our parts. They're just not there so I understand that but some of the stuff was just random and not what the situation called for imo. The 2 point conversion. Condensed with limited options to target in the field. Tough look and this is another conversation but we need some playmakers. Enough is enough. I get the frustration with the play calling though. Just think our personnel is tough to work with.

All year Bill was daring teams to beat us by running the ball. He'd line up 1/2 IDL, two edge-types, a bunch of DB's and dare teams to beat us. All year they either couldn't or abandoned the run like Oak, Sea. He was comfortable in his DB's tackling and today Denver didn't flinch with 30+ rushes to 25 passes/attempts I believe. For 130+ yards on the ground.
In hindsight very smart with Lock so unstable. His first game back after a few weeks. He could have easily tossed 2-3 other picks if he held on to them or if he was asked to pass more.

The 3rd down/FG I understand both sides. I think Bill was thinking we needed to score TDs anyway and needed the ball back asap. If they pick up the 1st down we're losing out on a lot of time but again get both sides. Denver was having trouble and again Lock looked shakey all game.

Non-challenge.

We didn't adjust as well as we should/could have imo but again this goes back to personnel. Denver didn't respect our ability to beat them deep or even pass tbh. Their DL was teeing off on passes all day. This result was their S playing up a lot of the day. Where was the PA (play action), double moves or quick hitters to the MOF? Slants/crossers, I saw a few mesh concepts. Maybe it was just the way the game went but that was annoying.

Mike Ojemudia (rookie), Shelby Harris, Chubb, Simmons all played well for Denver. I thought Jon Jones, Bentley & Gilmore played well for us.

This is awesome. Thank you!
 

BaconGrundleCandy

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Taking Rohrwasser obviously looks like a major blunder at this point. Johnson was widely considered to be good value in the 5th and he would have been a better pick but he is not exactly lighting the world on fire so far, even with the injury issues Tampa has had at WR. 5/68/1 through 6 games...let's not put him into Canton just yet.
Honestly don't hear anyone talking about him like that.

It just goes back to value.

WR vs K. Or put it like this, which would you rather gamble on? A guy like Johnson or Roh? Even if TJ is a 3-4 WR for 5-6 years, Roh might not be in the league.

Also it's not so much about stats with TJ if you add some context.
A)Johnson missed a lot of time this summer so he was behind coming in.

B)Tampa is pretty deep at WR/TE, so even injuries at WR they had Miller, Gronk, Watson, Howard, running game. Evans has played in most games. Still a lot of vets/bodies in front of him.

So I can see why his stats are the way they are. I feel like he's played pretty well when given reps. Looked pretty decent, we'll see going forward.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Evan talks about his mechanics - throwing off his back foot. This is true but his release point always varies too high, too low at times. Makes it tough with DL who have arms with a 7 foot wingspan. Especially when hes staring down his target for short throws.
It's been an issue since college. When he first came out his release point was someone closer to 6'2/6'3, not 6'5. He really started working on it around 2015-2016. You saw some results a few years later but his mechanics have literally been up & down forever. Stepping towards his target, throwing off back foot & release point have all been issues.

You see him open up here but gets his hips into it enough


"After coaches gushed about his improving mechanics, Newton’s time off due to the coronavirus, along with a lack of pass protection, caused his throwing mechanics to regress. However, Newton’s front leg steps to the side rather than towards his target, he loads up on his back foot and throws with his old backward tilt we saw in Carolina. As a result, Newton breaks the chain, meaning he’s only generating velocity from his arm, and the ball falls well short. If Newton gets more on the pass, that’s six and the lead"

Also I'm pretty sure Harry knows he F'd up immediately. His body language was that of someone who wasn't happy with himself getting up off the ground.

This was just a clusterf*ck. Lack of prep killed Bill. You can tell it from interviews but honestly Bill likes routine. Control. Its the system and it doesn't work through zoom. I can only imagine him off camera getting ready for a "zoom". He must love it. Lack of prep. Injuries. Lack of weapons. Lack of adjustments. You're winning a lot of games under those conditions yet we still were close. Again just a F'd up year. Just happy we're getting football. Honestly very grateful
 

BaconGrundleCandy

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Not the worst set by Wynn. Arms/hands aren't too far outside to where he's giving up his chest. Just lack of early hands, too passive and couldn't recover.
Great rush by Chubb who was a top 5 pick. Power rusher, with some finesse. Wynn gets the power here. He's shown a great anchor so far but Chubb does a great job of reducing his target after the hesi move. Gives Wynn almost no target to hit and Wynn is too late with his hands. He's been beat a total of 4-5 times all year and a few of them came yesterday. Obviously his worst game this year. I see nothing that really causes concern. He wasn't himself against a great opponent and some good coaching. No practice, switching spots. Should have been a little better but everyone was put in a bad spot. No prep and coaching was off as well.

I've only watched the game once so I'll hold judgements but I'm not getting excited about yesterday even though it sukked.

 

Top