Content Post Words on things I watched, read & heard II

[Patsgofor4]

Probably my favorite player at #14 so far. We'll see what the boards look like in a few weeks though.

The love for him seem to be rapidly increasing, for good reason. Unfortunately, I doubt that he will last until 14.

 

[DaBruinz]

Definitely feels like CB at #14 makes a lot of sense. CB is a big need, there are several really good CBs who should be available at that slot. Target OT on day 2. Use your free agent dollars on Tremaine Edmunds from Buffalo. Trade for Hopkins. Seek more DB and WR prospects on day 3. I think you'd be in pretty good shape as a team and it seems like a realistic approach. Free safety would still be a bit of a question mark, probably need to find answers in the free agent market somehow and hope drafted prospects grow up fast.

So, you're only looking at adding someone for RT and leaving Trent at LT? Is that the thought? What about swing tackle? Another position of need? especially with the number of OTs we used last year..

 

[p8ryts]

So, you're only looking at adding someone for RT and leaving Trent at LT? Is that the thought? What about swing tackle? Another position of need? especially with the number of OTs we used last year..

Don't want any versatile Alabama defensive back at 14

 

[Ross12]

So, you're only looking at adding someone for RT and leaving Trent at LT? Is that the thought? What about swing tackle? Another position of need? especially with the number of OTs we used last year..

I'd draft multiple tackles, but I doubt they'll have a guy better than Brown at both LT and RT ready for week 1. My thought process is that hopefully they end up with one good tackle who can start and Brown can man the tackle position that is leftover, develop the other drafted tackle(s) during the season. Retain McDermott as a depth RT. If no market forms for Wynn then I might entertain signing him as a backup LT.

 

[Uptown]

1 potential Patriots free agent target from each remaining playoff team

Despite NFL free agency being two months away, teams will be starting to identify potential roster fits sooner rather than later.

www.patspulpit.com

 

[captain stone]

i had Kirkland and Galvin as draftable tackles before 2022 season w NFL playing strength questions with both..
- anybody else on your list @BaconGrundleCandy et al.?

Stromberg wouldn't be a bad Day 3 pick to try to develop at Center behind an established vet... Hmmm...

 

[captain stone]

I'd draft multiple tackles, but I doubt they'll have a guy better than Brown at both LT and RT ready for week 1. My thought process is that hopefully they end up with one good tackle who can start and Brown can man the tackle position that is leftover, develop the other drafted tackle(s) during the season. Retain McDermott as a depth RT. If no market forms for Wynn then I might entertain signing him as a backup LT.

If we don't see a starting LT on Opening Day who isn't better than Trent Brown was there during this past season, then Bill was derelict in his duty.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'd draft multiple tackles, but I doubt they'll have a guy better than Brown at both LT and RT ready for week 1. My thought process is that hopefully they end up with one good tackle who can start and Brown can man the tackle position that is leftover, develop the other drafted tackle(s) during the season. Retain McDermott as a depth RT. If no market forms for Wynn then I might entertain signing him as a backup LT.

Wynn is gonna sign with Atlanta. Even it if's on a crap contract. He's wanted to go back there for awhile.

 

[rochrist]

If we don't see a starting LT on Opening Day who isn't better than Trent Brown was there during this past season, then Bill was derelict in his duty.

Hopefully the draft someone who can start at LT and then Brown can move back to RT where he's more comfortable.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

THANK YOU, BCG for that. I am immediately smarter now, but not as informed as I need to be. And of course we are a long way from draft day and there will be a TON of more info for us to absorb,

Apologies Ken. Busy weekend and last few days. Actually just broke a rib from a fall at work. Never ends lol.

A couple of comments and questions.

Thank you for pointing out that despite all the clamour for WR's ALL the time, the Pats HAVE make numerous attempts over the recent years to improve the situation.

Your its not like your info on #1 WR's is secret, EVERY team is looking for those to 10 guys, but while "good WR's litter NFL rosters, the ELITE ones are hard to find. Having top 10 picks help a LOT. People here seem to think that all you have to do is want a top 10 guy and he will suddenly appear.

Yup, there's no doubt we've made it a point to bring WR help. Whoever it came from - Tom, Bill, "powers that be." Brown was the last straw but we tried Harry, Gordon and Sanu before him.

In regards to the second part it's definitely not easy. You do need a few things to line up on order to get that guy. I've mentioned before that I'm a fan of Billy Beane. He never cared what he gave up, just what he got back - what he could put/see on the field. You can't operate like that 24/7, you just can't but once and a while you need to go "Full Beane" lol and just make it happen. Particularly when you're very close.
Our record says we're not and fixing the OL is never easy but after that there's really not a lot of huge holes on offense besides WR1 imo.
Anyway yea, you need a few things to line up but we have the chips (picks + $) and obvious "want to" from recent reports, so we'll see what happens.

Now my immediate questions.

You probably have as good a handle on this current draft class as anyone here. So given the fact the Pats will get picks in the middle of every round. What would YOU do with that 14th pick if the draft were tomorrow. Take the best VALUE regardless of position, or Trade down and not reach, while picking up another 2nd round pick

I'd do my usual due diligence on guys like Anderson, Carter, Murphy, Wilson etc If one of them falls, say between the 8-12. I'd consider a small trade up. Assuming we're set with Mac I'm not making a big trade up.

I usually average 10-15 1st RD grades and will probably be on the lower side this year. So I'm not planing on. Any big trades. Just in case one of the big dogs fall within reason.

After that I'm keeping my short list at 14 and working off that. And it'll likely be a very short list.

You think CB deep position group. So if there is a true #1 CB with size available at 14 and a WR you liked (and I'm correctly reading that you believe there isn't going to be a great value at OT at 14) would YOU take the CB or WR?

Yes and I'd like to hear your thinking on this. If you have the chance to have an all-atar unit or elite corp somewhere are you more inclined to lean that why? I say that bc there looks to be a few CB in this class that would really round out our CB/DB group.

Anyway this is how id see the first few sections of the draft

Tier for 14
Joey Porter Jr (wr) / Paris Johnson (ot) / Quentin Johnston (wr)/ Christian Gonzalez (cb) /Cam Smith (cb)/ Witherspoon (cb) Broderick Jones (ot) / Branch (DB) -- small trade back if we can staying in RD1 (20 - 32) Darnell Wright (RT) / O'Cyrus Torrence (G if we move Onwenu to RT?) / Anton Harrison

Few more names but that's the gist rn. I'll have a small ptp list out soon

I've been a big Darnell Wright fan and have said I'd love to see him and Onwenu next to each other. Talked about him a page or so ago. He's NFL ready, mean, Plus Hands and Strength. If we land Paris Johnson at 14 I'd trade up for Wright and be very happy with that! One of Jarrett Patterson, Wypler or Schmitz should be there in RD3. They're all NFL ready, top 50-75 picks.

That could be our Plan A. Maybe trade back and get Wright in the 1st and Harrison or Bergeron in RD for LT after. Same idea - hope for one of the big three at C to be there if we want to move on from Andrews.

Joey Porter, Jones trio + Dugger could be the best secondary in the league imo. Get him, Gonzalez, Smith, Witherspoon etc and we could have a chance at a special secondary.

I'd stand pat at 14 hoping I have a real 1st on someone and have a hard cut-off for a trade back. It's a small list imo.

Again sorry for late reply.

 

[State]

Wynn is gonna sign with Atlanta. Even it if's on a crap contract. He's wanted to go back there for awhile.

Wynn is dead to me.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

So there's really no blue chips in the traditional sense but Paris Johnson and Darnell Wright will probably be tackles 1-2 on my board, definitely top 3-4.

Quick thoughts ...

Skoronski length issues show up on tape all over the place but he'll make a fantastic guard. Plus lateral movement, footwork, uses independent, anchor and ability to take care of the los before climbing. He's a good one but not a tackle.

Paris is someone I would bet on with a proper OL coach. Looks very athletic at times, very quick off the ball. Then you'll see him short step some reps and leave himself off balance. Those are few and far between. Not the norm but there. Overall very good jump sets, can get vertical easy. At times doesn't use his length to his advantage. Overall plus mobility, attitude and versatility. He's got a lot of room to grow but he's a versatile run blocker imo that could play in any scheme. Hes got power, agility and range. Hands could use work in pass pro. Needs to develop independent hands. He'll rely too much on his length on certain reps thinking he's able to make contact with two arms bc they're long but rushers at this and that level are too good. He does put together some great reps though there. Explosive off the ball, cuts off outside but foot speed and position don't leave him vulnerable to an inside move or games upfront. He needs work but he's good.

I love Darnell Wright. He's limited in some ways and probably always will be but you can work around a lot of stuff imo. Trent Brown isn't the most versatile run blocker and has had a nice career. Wright doesn't have the best range or mobility and more suited towards a power or mixed scheme imo but he's a NFL ready starter imo. Zone heavy teams will probably stay away bc hes not the most athletic guy especiallyin terms of consistently. He'll flash some nice reps but hes a mauler in the run game. He's able to be effective away from the los but he's not the quickest. Again they'll be occasional reps where he'll reach a 3T but it's mostly power, effort and attitude over technique in the run game. He's able to move people off the ball though. Effective off combos at times. Some of the best hands in the class. Grip strength is plus, if he gets a hold of you, its usually over. When he hits you, you move or slow down. Impressive hand strikes, faints, independent hands and again some pop. Shows off impressive snatch n trap. Plus anchor. Decent footwork really relies on patience, size, power and experience. He's got like 2800 reps between RT & LT. He's like 6'6/335 I think 320 would make a big difference in certain areas. Good feet buy could be quicker for sure overall rep to rep. Could play with better leverage. He's the leader on that line though and plays with attitude.

I've been high on Harrison for a while now and knee he'd "rise" especially in this class. He's for the most potential imo. He's a natural pass protector and loves burying defenders. Plus hands that vary attacks. Has some pop in his punch. Genuinely plays with good leverage but will bend at the waist on occasion. Let's his feet do most of the work and has some light plus footwork. Has to get stronger especially in his lower half. Isn't a people mover yet but plays with attitude there. Shows off some agility and power though. Again the potential is there and he's got some NFL ready traits today.

Jones is one of the more complete tackles in this particular class. Not a lot of glaring holes or concerns at all. Very good in space, athleticism shows up every time he's on the move. Plus mobility, range and location both getting to his spots and locating targets. Impressive actually small or large consistently hits his targets. Very poised, smart when it comes to handling twist upfront. Don't see him panicked or messy, usually balanced and composed. Doesn't do anything outstanding but again no big holes in his game. Footwork and feet could improve while engaged. At times he'll rely too much on his hands in pass pro. Could add a little more finish to his game. About what you'd expect from a UG tackle. Given up like 3 sacks and 15 hurries in two years.

Rough outlook ...

Middle-late RD 1

Darnell Wright/Paris Johnson

Late 1 - early 2

Broderick Jones/Anton Harrison


2nd

Matthew Bergeron

Dawand Jones

Blake Freeland

3rd

Carter Warren

Cody Mauch

4th - 5th

Tyler Steen

Jaelyn Duncan



Strength by position ...

Top heavy and deep

RB, TE, CB, Edge/Rush


Top heavy little depth

QB, C, LB

Above average to very good with some depth

WR, IDL, Tackle, Guard

Safety is probably the weakest position


In regards to the draft, you're right. You'll usually 2-5 "elite" prospects or w/e you want to call them. Its a very small number. Then you have about 10-20 guys with similar potential but that get pushed down slightly for we reason. Position value, size/character concerns. That's your 1st RD. Usually 10-20 guys that deserve that 1st RD value. Then I find you have the about 20-30 prospects with real 2nd RD value. About double the 1st. And you'll see the same thing happen with the 3rd RD that we see earlier. Guys with similar value to 2nd RD prospects but again size, character, athletic concerns. Maybe position concerns - tweeners. After that it's tough guys with low ceilings, limited prospects mixed in with some of the concerns earlier guys have and that makes up your 4th. No difference between a 5th-udfa so it's a "pick your guy" type deal between.

This obviously varies, right? It's all cycles. Like you'll have strong classes followed up with weak ones. Sometimes this catches up and have weaker classes but it's all in waves.


*Side note*
I'll say this again about WR's bc it was recently brought up by the media. If you look around the league and the top offenses they all have stud WR1 or very close to it.



Vikings - Jefferson

Miami - Hill

Buffalo - Diggs

Vegas - Adams

Cincinnati - Chase

Philly - Brown

SF Deebo

Rams - Kupp

KC - Kelce

Arizona - Hopkins

LAC - Allen/Williams

Tampa - Evans

Dallas - Lamb

Seattle - Metcalf

Detroit - St. Brown



All those teams are top 15 in points, passing yards and total yards. They obviously have some of the best QB's and OL but they all invest in the position and make it a point to have or aquire a WR1 and WR2. You have Kittle, Waller, Godwin, Aiyuk, Lockett etc.

Even Christian Kirk had a positive effect on Lawrence and Zay Jones.



And it's not like we haven't tried to upgrade the position. Brown, Gordon, Harry, Sanu resent. So we're obviously trying but haven't hit yet. This is particularly important bc no matter if we're running a strict EP, modified, simplified version. We're asking a lot out of the QB position from a cerebral aspect and anyone not named Brady, Manning, Mahomes etc needs a lot of help no matter how you slice it. I've been seeing a trade coming at WR and would be shocked if we didn't make one tbh. We already have a development in Thornton so I'm expecting a trade for a established vet.


*Other side note*
I think these are the most likely picks at this point.

CB/DB

Gonzalez, Smith, Porter, Witherspoon, Phillips, Branch



Tackle - Johnson, Wright, Jones, Harrison



WR - Johnston, JSN



DL - Bresee/Wilson



LB - Simpson



Wildcards



QB - Richardson



Saf - Antonio Johnson



RB - Robinson



WR - Boutte



*Other side note*
Lots of Bill O'Brien talk. Here are some #'s on what Bill ran at Bama. Not much PA. Somewhat predictable in the redzone and run game imo.

Someone shared this with me from From Football Outsiders
Inside Zone Read - 14.4%, 47.29% Success Rate.
Flood Variations - 7.48% usage, 47.76% Success Rate
Inside Power - 6.47%, 51.72% Success Rate
Outside Zone Read - 6.03% of all play calls, 48.15% Success Rate
Outside Zone (no read) - 5.8% usage, 40.38% Success Rate

Inside Zone Read, 10.76% of all yards, 670 yards, 5.19 yards/play
Flood Variations, 551 yards, 8.85%, 8.22 yards/play
Outside Zone Read, 7.95%, 495 yards, 9.17 yards/play
Texas Concepts (HB Option)/Clearouts/Checkdowns 5.84%, 364 yards, 10.11 yards/play
Stick, 4.99% of all yards at 311 yards, at 8.64 yards/play

Anything is an upgrade over last season but a lot of smart Bama fans have np seeing Bill leave. Personally I don't think he was bad just not as creative as you'd expect but successful. You can't win every year.

Bumping and bolded bc of OB being back

 

[captain stone]

Wynn is dead to me.

Who?

 

[Jim Beankie]

Who?

I'm guessing State lost a lot of money at that casino.

 

[Ross12]

Apologies Ken. Busy weekend and last few days. Actually just broke a rib from a fall at work. Never ends lol.

Yup, there's no doubt we've made it a point to bring WR help. Whoever it came from - Tom, Bill, "powers that be." Brown was the last straw but we tried Harry, Gordon and Sanu before him.

In regards to the second part it's definitely not easy. You do need a few things to line up on order to get that guy. I've mentioned before that I'm a fan of Billy Beane. He never cared what he gave up, just what he got back - what he could put/see on the field. You can't operate like that 24/7, you just can't but once and a while you need to go "Full Beane" lol and just make it happen. Particularly when you're very close.
Our record says we're not and fixing the OL is never easy but after that there's really not a lot of huge holes on offense besides WR1 imo.
Anyway yea, you need a few things to line up but we have the chips (picks + $) and obvious "want to" from recent reports, so we'll see what happens.

I'd do my usual due diligence on guys like Anderson, Carter, Murphy, Wilson etc If one of them falls, say between the 8-12. I'd consider a small trade up. Assuming we're set with Mac I'm not making a big trade up.

I usually average 10-15 1st RD grades and will probably be on the lower side this year. So I'm not planing on. Any big trades. Just in case one of the big dogs fall within reason.

After that I'm keeping my short list at 14 and working off that. And it'll likely be a very short list.

Yes and I'd like to hear your thinking on this. If you have the chance to have an all-atar unit or elite corp somewhere are you more inclined to lean that why? I say that bc there looks to be a few CB in this class that would really round out our CB/DB group.

Anyway this is how id see the first few sections of the draft

Tier for 14
Joey Porter Jr (wr) / Paris Johnson (ot) / Quentin Johnston (wr)/ Christian Gonzalez (cb) /Cam Smith (cb)/ Witherspoon (cb) Broderick Jones (ot) / Branch (DB) -- small trade back if we can staying in RD1 (20 - 32) Darnell Wright (RT) / O'Cyrus Torrence (G if we move Onwenu to RT?) / Anton Harrison

Few more names but that's the gist rn. I'll have a small ptp list out soon

I've been a big Darnell Wright fan and have said I'd love to see him and Onwenu next to each other. Talked about him a page or so ago. He's NFL ready, mean, Plus Hands and Strength. If we land Paris Johnson at 14 I'd trade up for Wright and be very happy with that! One of Jarrett Patterson, Wypler or Schmitz should be there in RD3. They're all NFL ready, top 50-75 picks.

That could be our Plan A. Maybe trade back and get Wright in the 1st and Harrison or Bergeron in RD for LT after. Same idea - hope for one of the big three at C to be there if we want to move on from Andrews.

Joey Porter, Jones trio + Dugger could be the best secondary in the league imo. Get him, Gonzalez, Smith, Witherspoon etc and we could have a chance at a special secondary.

I'd stand pat at 14 hoping I have a real 1st on someone and have a hard cut-off for a trade back. It's a small list imo.

Again sorry for late reply.

Yeah I really like the thought of corner at 14. Secondary was a lot of duct tape last year and now it could become a major strength with one pick. Of course the OL was also not great, but I feel like half the issue there was coaching so perhaps we can get improvements without total roster overhaul.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Yeah I really like the thought of corner at 14. Secondary was a lot of duct tape last year and now it could become a major strength with one pick. Of course the OL was also not great, but I feel like half the issue there was coaching so perhaps we can get improvements without total roster overhaul.

BGC says there are 4 top CBs, so maybe 1 will reach 14? Then we could spend FA on Edmunds and Payne. Not sure we sign J Jones if it is a big contract. Of course Jack Jones being a head case is an issue. Rather easy #14 on CB + Edmunds + Payne would fill holes on all 3 levels.

That is all ideal for the defense, but we still need 2 OTs that can start, and a WR. Maybe a slot WR?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Yeah I really like the thought of corner at 14. Secondary was a lot of duct tape last year and now it could become a major strength with one pick. Of course the OL was also not great, but I feel like half the issue there was coaching so perhaps we can get improvements without total roster overhaul.

BGC says there are 4 top CBs, so maybe 1 will reach 14? Then we could spend FA on Edmunds and Payne. Not sure we sign J Jones if it is a big contract. Of course Jack Jones being a head case is an issue. Rather easy #14 on CB + Edmunds + Payne would fill holes on all 3 levels.

That is all ideal for the defense, but we still need 2 OTs that can start, and a WR. Maybe a slot WR?

CB and RB are probably the strongest and deepest classes. Closely followed by Rush and TE.

Then you have a really solid second tier of guys like - Rejzohn Wright, Garrett Williams, Clark Phillips and Deonte Banks. I'll bet one of those guys goes in RD1 bc the big 4 (Porter, Witherspoon, Smith and Gonzalez) should all go top 15-20. Personally I love all of them. All are very good in man and versatile.

We might be able to get lucky and land one on a small trade back. Maybe Smith in the early 20's but I could see him gone before then. Him and Witherspoon are so NFL ready imo when it comes to playing man, run support and confidence. Those two will be very very good. Porter and Gonzo are a little more matchup types youd put on certain guys to ruin their day. Lots of size, physicality and length. I've heard a lot of people comp Porter to Humphrey from Balty and i like that a lot. Hump is a great CB you can move around. Solid, reliable and tough in run support.

If we landed one of them. Traded up for Wright, probably OT2 for me. And grab someone like Josh Downs, Marvin Mims or Flowers in RD3 or Rakim Jarrett, Ronnie Bell in 4 or 5. Some like Flowers might be strictly slot but Mims has some versatility there to play outside. Remember we have a few picks this year.

Couple of bigger late round guys, possible udfa I'm interested in.
Andrei Iosivas, Elijah Higgins, AT Perry

Andrei Iosivas is super interesting. He set the indoor record for the 60m at 6.71. Big time speed and potential. Think I read he had a 40 inch vert as well. I love watching movements and mechanics. Some guys just move different. Very raw but again talking late-udfa. Same for Higgins. Bit of a project but someone that might be worth your time.





@Jim Beankie







So much is riding on Ty Thornton too. We really need him to make it happen.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

We always make use of our time at things like this

 

[Mike the Brit]

There have been a million posts about Patricia and the offense but here is Karen Guregian, using the contacts that only a long-time and completely honest beat writer has.

Inside the most dysfunctional Patriots season under Bill Belichick: ‘I’ve never seen anything like it’

Clashes with the QB, Belichick blame and coaching malpractice: how the Patriots’ dysfunction last season ran deeper than anyone knew.

www.bostonherald.com

One thing that we can now put to bed (that would rid us of a few thousand posts!) is the idea that the Pats put in Judge and Patricia because they knew that it was only going to be a one-season stop-gap while they waited for O'Brien. Karen makes it clear that they tried to install a whole new offense -- and that they completely failed.

No wonder Mac went backwards. The big question is: is his regression fixable? (And is BO'B the man to do it?)

 

[patsinthesnow]

It’s exciting that the strength of the class is at CB & the pats are in position to grab one. They were the only team to have three pass rushers with 50+ pressures (judon, uche & wise) & barmore had 11 in his final two games. They could be even better if the D could hold up more in man coverage.

WR1 & CB1 are the two positions this offseason that can most improve the team. The pats D without two of their top 4 CBs did a decent job vs. burrow & allen but they picked apart zones frequently. The D can be one of the best in the NFL with a CB1 joining jack jones, marcus jones & mills IMO.