Wo Where Are We Now: Draft Direction?

[AzPatsFan]

The captain can't see BB master paln. I don't think it is at all mysterious. Th eteam is very young, and will improve wihtexperience.

The depth is amazing, yet some draftnik wants to trade dowm to take the 7th or is it the 8th Patriots TE. I like meat and potatoes linemen drafts but the Pats now have a good starting Offesnive line with bookend Probowl tackle candidates, and a Probowl LG. Their new Center is already receiving encominiums, as well. Their depth is phenomenal as well with Cannon, Svitek and Zusevich at tackle, and Cannon, McDonald at reserve Guard and Center. All the young reserves have some starting experience too, and haven't embarassed themselves. That is a full complement and simply no more room. There is only one guy at 30 or older.

On the DL, Wilfork, Jones and Ninkovich are good players, and have now added Tom Kelly and Armond. The rotation players of Love, Deadrick, and Cunningham is good depth and then you have to still add the prospects like last years Third round rookie, injured Pryor etc. Plus Abraham is still a possibility.

Everyone seesm to want to draft a "coverage LB". Hasn't anyone noticed that Adrian Wilson, a team leader, former Probowl SS, was acquired to cover the and will fill that position for the 3 years of his contract until Tavon Wilson matures.

At Linebacker the Pats have three, young rising stars and a pair of above average spares in Ninkovich and Fletcher. Then you can add the ST reserves like Rivera, Tarpinian and koutevides. The roster position is full up. Only Koutevides is 30 or older.

The only Defensive position that does not have superb depth is CB. With starters Talib, Dennard, and Arrington at LCB, RCB and Slot corner the starters are at leastOK. The reserves are not bad wiyh M Dowling and

 

[mgteich]

Some think that our DE's our weakness. You see top 5 quality defensive DE talent in Ninkovich, Jones, Francis, Cunningham and Bequette. Others don't see it and would like to add a pass rusher. Francis has shown little, Cunningham about the same, Bequette nothing.
We are expecting a pass rush from Ninkovich and Jones, with no quality backup.

IMHO, we are stronger at DT with Wilfork, Love, Deaderick, Armstead and Kelly.

How the heck is DE still a top need for us? You people are driving me crazy. DT, Cover LB, CB, WR, OL and Safety are clearly bigger needs. DE isn't even in the top 4.

 

[EwanSellars]

CB is probably the position im worried about the most id probably try to get banks or jamar taylor but if we go dl carradine or short carradine and jones on the ends would be insane for years to come and kawann short could be an amazing pass rushing DT kelly and wilfork are both getting old so we will probably draft a few in the coming years to prepare for that

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

I admit to being a little confused with the general off-season direction BB has taken this year. I'm not saying I'm unhappy with it - we'll be able to field a very good team next year - it's just that I don't see much in the way of strategic forward planning. We came into this off-season with CB, DT, S and WR as pretty big needs and we'll likely be going in to next year with those same needs considering the ageing players and one year contracts we've handed out.

I share your confusion. You have framed it well. BB has signed many players this year to a 1 year contract. Talib's deal was 1 yr by the player's choice. Sanders on a 1 yr signing is by the Pats choice. BB passed up signing other top CBs like Smith (multi-year contract w/ the Chiefs) or free agent WRs like Heyward-Bey who we could have had without giving up draft picks. Cutting Lloyd. Giving up a 3rd rounder in a year when the Pats have had the fewest draft picks in BB's tenure constrains the Pats.

Yes, confusing for sure. But BB being who he is, few here call on him to explain. Yes, simply explain to fans his thinking, the plan he is following. Much like Theo/Cherington do for the Red Sox during every hot stove period. There is no forum I am aware of where he opens up on his thinking. It would be so educational -- allow fans to be better informed.

Since BB will not explain himself or be required by the NFL to be forthcoming, we are left to speculate, decipher tea leaves, try to piece together a mosaic from crumbs.

Let's wait for the draft to see if the picture becomes clearer. Two more weeks of clouds and fog ahead........

 

[Off The Grid]

I admit to being a little confused with the general off-season direction BB has taken this year. I'm not saying I'm unhappy with it - we'll be able to field a very good team next year - it's just that I don't see much in the way of strategic forward planning. We came into this off-season with CB, DT, S and WR as pretty big needs and we'll likely be going in to next year with those same needs considering the ageing players and one year contracts we've handed out.

So in light of the Kelly, Edelman and probable Sanders signings, where are we in terms of this draft?


1. Leaving aside the two seventh rounders, we only have two draft picks. Yes trade backs or a Mallett trade would change that, but BB is giving up draft picks to sign players to one year contracts. It doesn't appear that he's placing much value on those draft picks right now.

2. In the last day, we've effectively double-dipped at the WR position. Whilst I don't think we've ruled ourselves out of drafting a WR, I don't think we'll be double dipping anymore. So what type of WR are we looking at. Sanders strikes me as very similar to the Wheaton/Swope/Boyce type receivers so I wonder whether they're still on the cards. And I find it interesting that the Edelman/Sanders business comes the day after Keenan Allen ran a 4.70 thus pretty much guaranteeing he falls to us in the 1st. He'd certainly offer us that size receiver that we don't have.

3. OG and pass rusher are looking like very strong possibilities - they're both possible needs that haven't been directly addressed yet. Neither are absolutely essential (we can get by) but drafting at both positions would improve us, certainly in the long-term. Justin Pugh/Corey Lemonier perhaps?

4. For the last two years, BB has looked at the coverage LB position in his pre-draft contacts. Last year it was Lavonte David, this year Alec Ogletree, Kiko Alonso and some others. With so few absolute needs, could this be the year?

5. Only two draft picks and so few immediate must have needs, could this be the year that we grab a couple of upside luxury type prospects in the draft? How about one or both of Tyrann Mathieu/Marcus Lattimore?


This draft for the Patriots wan't all that easy to pin down initially. Now it's next to impossible.

Edit: Can't edit the tile. Should read "so", not "Wo". Doh!

These are intelligent Questions. My two cents...

A ~ The first question one should ask is: Should Coach Bill "address" our perceived needs in Free Agency? In the Salary Cap Era, I would say: NO. Not under the best circumstances. Nix. Nein. NYET. The only "successful" Big Ticket Free Agent we've ever signed ~ if you count'm ~ has been Welker, and you could make an huge Argument that that Security Blanket ******ed Brady's progress as a QuarterBack.

B ~ And that's leaving aside the fact that with a Flat Cap for the foreseeable Future, tossing millions at Mid Tier Free Agents could and probably will prove disastrous. It almost always has, even with a growing Cap. With fresh Prospect reaching their 2nd Contract every single Year, things are gonna get crazy.

C ~ The hardest thing to do is to do nothing ~ to Stand Pat. Coach Bill will never receive the Appreciation he so richly deserves for the many Years ~ including this one ~ where he refused to cater to the clamoring masses and the Feltchers and Spazzes on the Radio...but I am deeply grateful that he's Thrifty with our Cap Dollars: Those who panic and toss $50 Million Dollar Contracts around in Haste in the month of March...repent at their leisure, often for Years.

1 ~ You're talking about one Contract ~ the Sanders Contract ~ and you can be damned sure that Coach Bill has a very crisp Agreement with Sanders, wherein Sanders will sign a much meatier and longer Extension when and if the Steelers deign to Match: I expect that that Extension will include a minimal 1st Year Salary and a relatively meaty Bonus that will have the result of lowering Sanders's 1st Year Cap Hit...and that Coach Bill is simply enlisting Sanders's help in making the relatively higher 1st Year Cap Hit of the current 1 Year Deal relatively difficult for the Cap Strapped Steelers to Match.

2 ~ I continue to puke at the diminutive size of the Flankers that Coach Bill continues to insist on, and he seems quite indifferent to whether or not we ever have a legitimate Split End on the Team...But swapping a pure SlotBack like Welker ~ along with a flaccid Flanker like Lloyd ~ in return for considerably younger Flankers like Amendola & Sanders, while retaining Edelman, who is also a Flanker by trade...gives me hope that the SlotBack Gig might possibly be reduced to an Auxiliary Role ~ in favor of an HalfBack, please, God!! ~ rather than the Madden-Friendly but Championship-******ant policy of featuring a SlotBack.

3 ~ If we draft Justin Pugh & Corey LeMonier with those Picks, I will burn Coach Bill's house down.

4/5 ~ Wait a minute. Didn't you just list "CB, DT, S and WR" as "pretty big needs"?? But, OK, if you're drawing a distinction between "pretty big" and "absolute", I won't argue with you...But if you think that we have "pretty big needs" at those 4 Spots, would it really be wise to spend what Draft Capital we have on Luxury Picks, when survival in the Salary Cap Era depends on being able to fill out an huge portion of the bottom half of your roster with younger, Minimum Wage guys??

What are your thoughts?

 

[ATippett56]

3 ~ If we draft Justin Pugh & Corey LeMonier with those Picks, I will burn Coach Bill's house down.

I'll bring the gasoline.

 

[manxman2601]

These are intelligent Questions. My two cents...

A ~ The first question one should ask is: Should Coach Bill "address" our perceived needs in Free Agency? In the Salary Cap Era, I would say: NO. Not under the best circumstances. Nix. Nein. NYET. The only "successful" Big Ticket Free Agent we've ever signed ~ if you count'm ~ has been Welker, and you could make an huge Argument that that Security Blanket ******ed Brady's progress as a QuarterBack.

B ~ And that's leaving aside the fact that with a Flat Cap for the foreseeable Future, tossing millions at Mid Tier Free Agents could and probably will prove disastrous. It almost always has, even with a growing Cap. With fresh Prospect reaching their 2nd Contract every single Year, things are gonna get crazy.

C ~ The hardest thing to do is to do nothing ~ to Stand Pat. Coach Bill will never receive the Appreciation he so richly deserves for the many Years ~ including this one ~ where he refused to cater to the clamoring masses and the Feltchers and Spazzes on the Radio...but I am deeply grateful that he's Thrifty with our Cap Dollars: Those who panic and toss $50 Million Dollar Contracts around in Haste in the month of March...repent at their leisure, often for Years.

1 ~ You're talking about one Contract ~ the Sanders Contract ~ and you can be damned sure that Coach Bill has a very crisp Agreement with Sanders, wherein Sanders will sign a much meatier and longer Extension when and if the Steelers deign to Match: I expect that that Extension will include a minimal 1st Year Salary and a relatively meaty Bonus that will have the result of lowering Sanders's 1st Year Cap Hit...and that Coach Bill is simply enlisting Sanders's help in making the relatively higher 1st Year Cap Hit of the current 1 Year Deal relatively difficult for the Cap Strapped Steelers to Match.

2 ~ I continue to puke at the diminutive size of the Flankers that Coach Bill continues to insist on, and he seems quite indifferent to whether or not we ever have a legitimate Split End on the Team...But swapping a pure SlotBack like Welker ~ along with a flaccid Flanker like Lloyd ~ in return for considerably younger Flankers like Amendola & Sanders, while retaining Edelman, who is also a Flanker by trade...gives me hope that the SlotBack Gig might possibly be reduced to an Auxiliary Role ~ in favor of an HalfBack, please, God!! ~ rather than the Madden-Friendly but Championship-******ant policy of featuring a SlotBack.

3 ~ If we draft Justin Pugh & Corey LeMonier with those Picks, I will burn Coach Bill's house down.

4/5 ~ Wait a minute. Didn't you just list "CB, DT, S and WR" as "pretty big needs"?? But, OK, if you're drawing a distinction between "pretty big" and "absolute", I won't argue with you...But if you think that we have "pretty big needs" at those 4 Spots, would it really be wise to spend what Draft Capital we have on Luxury Picks, when survival in the Salary Cap Era depends on being able to fill out an huge portion of the bottom half of your roster with younger, Minimum Wage guys??

What are your thoughts?

Good post. To address your points.


A) I don't have a problem with BB addressing needs through FA so long as it's in a cost controlled manner. I like the FA signings we have made. I don't like needs being addressed through the draft - I believe the draft should be used as a long-term pipeline to bring the best possible talent onto the team (which relates to my Justin Pugh suggestion).

B) I absolutely agree with you that we shouldn't be tossing millions around at FA's. That way lies cap ruin. you will not find me advocating for some of the bigger FA obsessions that sometimes excite some Pats Fans.

C) As with B, I couldn't agree more.

1. I actually think of it as two. We gave up a 4th for one and a half years of Talib. 3rd and 4th round picks may or may not amount to much, but they do provide for a degree of cost-controlled stability on the roster. There may or may not be a nudge-nudge wink-wink agreement with Sanders but it won't be any sort of legal commitment. I can just as easily see Sanders having a break out season thanks to having Brady passing him the ball and then pricing himself out of the Patriot's range. This is why I'm careful to not sound too critical or to judgemental. If we eventually end up seeing Talib and Sanders playing for three, four or more years for the Pats at no heinous cost, then these trades will have been worth it and I'll be happy to credit BB, but if this time next year neither player is on the roster and we haven't won another SB then I think the moves would be deserving of criticism.

2. I'm less concerned than you (and others) about the construction of our receiving corps. As long as we have effective catchers of the ball, I couldn't care whether they are 5'0" or 6'10".

3. I've been very vocal through this whole process about the fact that I consider OG as an important need, particularly in the medium term. It now looks like Jonathan Cooper is well out of reach so I look to the next best thing at the position and I think Pugh might be it. As for Lemonier, well I wasn't doing a mock, I was looking at a situational pass-rusher (which we know BB considers a need) and picked one that fits a Patriot profile in terms of length and athleticism and that we've shown some interest in.

4. As I've said, I don't see those picks as luxury picks and nor do I think we should use the draft to slavishly fill needs. Yes, if we had seven picks we could draft a DT and a CB and a WR and so on. But with only two picks it would be better to draft two players that will fill a roster position of significance (ie not back of roster) but that also fit a BPA mantra and are therefore more likely to succeed. The worst possible thing to do with only two picks before the 7th is to reach for needs and risk both prospects busting.

5. Filling out "a huge portion of the bottom half of (the) roster" will need to be addressed by UDFA this year potentially and I suspect that this is why that part of the draft has been investigated quite significantly by the private workouts and other draft contacts.

Note: In the above, I'm discussing the Patriot system as it is now. Obviously, we could end up with more than two picks before the 7th round and I'm not discounting that possibility.

 

[ATippett56]

New England Patriots roster potential upgrades

Offense
Donald Jones
Michael Jenkins

Defense
Jermaine Cunningham
Marcus Benard
Jake Bequette
Tracy Robertson
Jason Vega
Niko Koutouvides
Adrian Wilson
Steve Gregory
Ras-I Dowling
Marquice Cole

New England Patriots - 2013 Team Roster - Rotoworld.com Fantasy Sports

 

[State]

I'd like to see those numbers after the bye when every player changed position except Gregory (McCourtey to S, Talib to CB, Dennard to Outside CB, Arrington to Slot CB).

That said we definitely need another CB. As we can't rely on Dowling to be healthy, an injury to Talib or Dennard and we're screwed. As we found out in the AFCCG. Get a talented rookie and we have depth without Dowling. And if we get the rookie and Dowling happens to stay healthy . . . :rocker:

I still hold out hope for Dowling. Yet my anger at Belichick for his arrogance in picking him has grown.

In this instance ESPN's The Hair (Mel Kiper) was right. The history of injuries with Dowling, despite his elite size and athleticism, made him too risky as the first pick in the second a couple of years ago.

And we had already a well-documented need for a speedy WR with the departure of Randy Moss. And one of my binkies, Torrey Smith, WR out of Maryland, was sitting there nice and juicy.

And, worse, we were reportedly offered multiple deals to trade down from that spot, which is often the case with the first pick of the second. We turned them down. We were enamored with Dowling.

What a mistake! It has held this franchise back. Imagine what having Torrey Smith would have done to this incredible offense? I'm talking tack on a couple of World Championships.

Big mistake, Bill.

 

[State]

I cited the positions where upgrades are required on the New England Patriots roster:

Offense
Wide Receiver(s)

Defense
Cornerback
Defensive End
Safety

The defensive tackle position could use a refresh as well.

This is exactly right.

People don't realize how crappy this defense would be if Wolfork went down. Last year's second rounder, a stupid stupid reach, hurts more when there was first round (albeit inconsistent) talent there among three guys.

I think the Patriots may stay where they are in the first and draft the guy who is falling for no other reason that I can tell other than he's a Caucasian from Germany. Have you people realized that Bjoern Werner has the talent to be in the top 15 in the draft for a 4-3 defense? Bjoern Werner Scouting Report

He's the Vrabel to complete the McGinest we got last year in Jones.

Hey, I love the Purdue kid. But he .plays above his talent and size. We need a legit counterpart to the edge rusher we so desperately needed--and got--last year in Jones from Syracuse.

Last year I called it with an entry asking if was going to be Chandler Jones or Andre Branch. http://www.patsfans.com/new-england.../911824-chandler-jones-andre-branch-27-a.html

This year I'm thinking the other side of DE with Bjoern Werner or Moore from Texas A M or the SMU 6' 8" Hunt.

But if we could get Werner late in the first it would be the biggest steal we've had since Vince slipped to us at 21.

If Werner is gone, then I think we try to get value by trading down and go for CB, where Talib will look to cash in on a big contract after playing lights out this season. He'll likely be gone. So CB is another high need. I think a CB who is a good value for us, even in the first, is Boise State's Jamar Taylor.

 

[cstjohn17]

What about something like this...

Round 1 - Corner - say Jamar Taylor
Round 2- OL -somone we have never heard of
Round 3 - WR - Sanders (from Piit)
FA- DE - Abraham

Roster is pretty solid at that point

 

[belichick010405]

Hi Vrabel - I took a look at last years' draft and here is something that I found interesting. Tavon Wilson, as we all know was selected by the Pats in the 2nd round and I can only imagine what it was like on this message board when he was drafted.

Do you recall who was selected immediately before Wilson?

I wonder if anyone recalls how long it took for the Patriots to get their selection in on that Tavon Wilson pick because the Pats went over the clock on that selection announcement. My gut tells me that the guy that they wanted was the selection before and this will be the draft that they rectify it.

Bobby Wagner, OLB, Utah State, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com