Wisdom of Solomon: There’s no room to second-guess Belichick

[aluminum seats]

Tell you what, if I'm gonna lose a guy I'd rather lose him in week 17 than week 18 because Bill has a week to coach his replacement up and get the team aclimated to playing with him as a starter. We've always played the last game of the season differently. Bill coaches them to play 60 minutes every week because we know what the alternative is. Then he manages the game and the roster as sees fit to best prepare his team for the post season. It's what he's always done. Like Parcell's taught him and someone taught Paarcell's (but you can't teach message board posters much of anything) football players play football and you can't coach to protect them from injury because that's part of the fabric of the game.

You've got a tangled mess of contradictions and doublespeak going here. "We've always played the last game of the season differently?" Well no, but OK. But then "Bill coaches them to play 60 minutes" and "football players play football" which means a whole lot of nothing.

Your choice between getting hurt this week or next is silly. If he didn't play yesterday he wouldn't have gotten hurt. Done.

And lose any phrasing about "message board posters." That's what we all are, and it just sounds pissy.

 

[fumbrunner]

Re: Wisdom of Solomon: There’s no room to second-guess Belichick

double post

 

[fumbrunner]

Re: Wisdom of Solomon: There’s no room to second-guess Belichick

First, the Pats have done different things at the end of the season, including yesterday. Resting guys who otherwise would have played, back-up QBs playing, etc. The approach is different than in normally is. So they don't always play a certain way.

tHey have rested players? really? when? Certainly not in 2007. Not in 2003 or 2004 either. Please show me where they have taken this approach?

Sure. Yesterday.

Brilliant!

 

[aluminum seats]

Brilliant. You have essentially contradicted your original post stating that they have done this before. It's brilliant posts like this that make me thankful to have BB calling the shots and not ppl on this message board.

Actually, no, but try and keep up. They played guys yesterday who should not have played, but they also didn't play other guys who normally would have. They've done that before, which was why Cassel was throwing two point conversions against the Dolphins a couple seasons back.

Welker should not have been on the field yesterday.

 

[fumbrunner]

Re: Wisdom of Solomon: There’s no room to second-guess Belichick

They've done that before, which was why Cassel was throwing two point conversions against the Dolphins a couple seasons back.

Welker should not have been on the field yesterday.

Where? how about some examples? the offense has remained virtually intact in every year where they were in the playoffs, regardless of whether the last game meant something or not. I still challenge you to provide concrete examples to prove your point. You wont find them

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You've got a tangled mess of contradictions and doublespeak going here. "We've always played the last game of the season differently?" Well no, but OK. But then "Bill coaches them to play 60 minutes" and "football players play football" which means a whole lot of nothing.

Your choice between getting hurt this week or next is silly. If he didn't play yesterday he wouldn't have gotten hurt. Done.

And lose any phrasing about "message board posters." That's what we all are, and it just sounds pissy.

It sounds like it does because it is what it is. I wish this whole place could lose it but it's fairly entrenched since 2006.

He coaches his players to play 60 minutes every week whether he intends or ends up doing that which is dependent on a lot of other circumstances that do change from team to team and season to season. He's never not started his starters and played them for some time without putting any predetermined limit on them so they will play as if it matters. Because while winning some games doesn't matter from a standings pov, it always matters from a coaching pov. Each guy who doesn't play or doesn't execute as if it matters impacts the capacity of the guy beside or behind or in front of him to execute effectively. That's why Brady played the full pre season this season. He needed it whether fans could bear it or not...

Wes could have been hurt going to the fridge for a soda based on the nature of the injury. It was a non contact injury. All it took was a bad step and a slip. He had a knee injury earlier this season and that was possibly the precursor to what happened yesterday and it likely would have happened sooner or later because he makes his living cutting and planting. Football is a violent, physical game that takes a toll whether you're on the field for one week or 6 weeks or 14 weeks. The average football player lasts 5 years in the league and the majority retire with some form of permanent physical disability. They can't be wrapped in cotton like precious keepsakes because their only enduring value to a team is on the field. Players (for the most part) and coaches understand this. Fans struggle with it unless the player is the enemy or some stiff on their own team they think sucks anyway...

 

[aluminum seats]

Where? how about some examples? the offense has remained virtually intact in every year where they were in the playoffs, regardless of whether the last game meant something or not. I still challenge you to provide concrete examples to prove your point. You wont find them

You just quoted an example--Cassel playing instead of Brady. So.....yeah. There you go.

At any rate, this back and forth is getting away from the substance of the conversation, which some posters seem to enjoy, but I find tiresome.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Actually, no, but try and keep up. They played guys yesterday who should not have played, but they also didn't play other guys who normally would have. They've done that before, which was why Cassel was throwing two point conversions against the Dolphins a couple seasons back.

Welker should not have been on the field yesterday.

Brady and Branch and Givens started that game and played in two series, one which ended badly with a pick and then another that ended in a TD. On an offense that had been together for a couple of seasons and won back to back superbowls and didn't have identity issues. Cassel took over on the third series and essentially played with the second string offense although Branch came back in for one more try at 1000 yards...

If the offense had been clicking yesterday the starters likely would have all been out after a quarter. But after Welker went down on the 4th play of their first drive all bets were off. Situational football and coaching.

 

[aluminum seats]

It sounds like it does because it is what it is. I wish this whole place could lose it but it's fairly entrenched since 2006.

He coaches his players to play 60 minutes every week whether he intends or ends up doing that which is dependent on a lot of other circumstances that do change from team to team and season to season. He's never not started his starters and played them for some time without putting any predetermined limit on them so they will play as if it matters. Because while winning some games doesn't matter from a standings pov, it always matters from a coaching pov. Each guy who doesn't play or doesn't execute as if it matters impacts the capacity of the guy beside or behind or in front of him to execute effectively. That's why Brady played the full pre season this season. He needed it whether fans could bear it or not...

Wes could have been hurt going to the fridge for a soda based on the nature of the injury. It was a non contact injury. All it took was a bad step and a slip. He had a knee injury earlier this season and that was possibly the precursor to what happened yesterday and it likely would have happened sooner or later because he makes his living cutting and planting. Football is a violent, physical game that takes a toll whether you're on the field for one week or 6 weeks or 14 weeks. The average football player lasts 5 years in the league and the majority retire with some form of permanent physical disability. They can't be wrapped in cotton like precious keepsakes because their only enduring value to a team is on the field. Players (for the most part) and coaches understand this. Fans struggle with it unless the player is the enemy or some stiff on their own team they think sucks anyway...

I think we have to settle on some things. Saying "Each guy who doesn't play or doesn't execute as if it matters impacts the capacity of the guy beside or behind or in front of him to execute effectively. That's why Brady played the full pre season this season" without addressing the fact Brady DIDN'T play the previous preseason doesn't help things.

So. Can we agree that Belichick coaches games that appear to not matter differently as much as other games? I think that's a yes. Once we accept that, it's simply HOW he coaches differently, uses players differently.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think we have to settle on some things. Saying "Each guy who doesn't play or doesn't execute as if it matters impacts the capacity of the guy beside or behind or in front of him to execute effectively. That's why Brady played the full pre season this season" without addressing the fact Brady DIDN'T play the previous preseason doesn't help things.

So. Can we agree that Belichick coaches games that appear to not matter differently as much as other games? I think that's a yes. Once we accept that, it's simply HOW he coaches differently, uses players differently.

This season he's reunited Brady with Welker and Moss but minus some old familiar faces and plus some new ones (some who didn't work out thereby moving some others, including two rookie conversion projects up the depth chart). The result has been inconsistent at best. A week ago they played possibly their best game of the season as a unit. But we've seen that before with this team only to find them inconsistent again. I think Bill likely wanted to build on what happened against Jacksonville at home and see if it would carry over to Houston on the road facing what was essentially a team fighting for it's playoff life. Situational football. He can't gauge how that unit performs unless it performs as a unit.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

I think we have to settle on some things. Saying "Each guy who doesn't play or doesn't execute as if it matters impacts the capacity of the guy beside or behind or in front of him to execute effectively. That's why Brady played the full pre season this season" without addressing the fact Brady DIDN'T play the previous preseason doesn't help things.

So. Can we agree that Belichick coaches games that appear to not matter differently as much as other games? I think that's a yes. Once we accept that, it's simply HOW he coaches differently, uses players differently.

seats

What part of maintaining continuity don't you grasp?

 

[aluminum seats]

seats

What part of maintaining continuity don't you grasp?

Great! A one-line post completely unresponsive to the post I made that you quoted. That's terrific work. Helpful.

 

[captain stone]

Deus Irae, Aluminum Seats, et. al. are 100% correct.

Welker (& Moss) should never, ever, have dressed on Sunday. Period.

The inactive list should have been:
Welker
Moss
Faulk
Watson
Wilfork
Warren
Mayo
Bodden

Brady could have dressed; but Hoyer should have played every damn snap. Hell, even if Hoyer were injured, Stanback and/or Edelman should have played QB ahead of Brady.

As Rock & Roll detective Ford Fairlane would say: Case cuh-losed. Oh!

 

[captain stone]

They have rested players? really? when? Certainly not in 2007. Not in 2003 or 2004 either. Please show me where they have taken this approach?

Bill didn't rest players in 2003, 2004 & 2007 because they HAD A BYE WEEK.

Bill should have rested Welker, Moss & Brady in 2009 because they DON'T HAVE A BYE WEEK.

If the Pats, by beating Houston, could have secured the #2 seed, AND A BYE WEEK, then Bill should have - and would have - played his starters, and played to win. But because that scenario was not an option, he should have treated Sunday as a bye week and rested the players - Brady, Welker, Moss, Faulk, Watson, Wilfork, Warren & Mayo - who needed rest more than anybody else.

What in the name of my Lord & Master Satan is so damn hard to understand about that?

 

[MassPats38]

Deus Irae, Aluminum Seats, et. al. are 100% correct.

Welker (& Moss) should never, ever, have dressed on Sunday. Period.

As Rock & Roll detective Ford Fairlane would say: Case cuh-losed. Oh!

Sure. And if Belichick sat all starters as you suggest and the team flopped on Sunday, much as the Colts do every time they tank games to rest starters for the playoffs, I wonder if you would be criticizing him after that playoff loss for not playing the game and running scared. Assuming for the sake of argument that Welker sat, if he blew out his knee 5 minutes into the Ravens game on the same cut, would your theory be he should have been held on the sideline until the second half? If he injured himself in practice this week instead of this game would you be saying Belichick should have done walk-throughs all week to prepare for the Ravens?

This injury is a freak occurrence. It happens. When it happened was unfortunate (and there is likely a probability of occurrence for this injury every time a receiver runs all out, so I will concede the probability does not apply if the player is sitting as a spectator). This is football, not chess. If a player is healthy, and Welker was not reported to be damaged, he wants to play and probably should play to stay sharp. As Brady pointed out before this season, one of the hardest things to deal with mentally as a player is watching the team play games without you during the regular season. As every team touted the next best thing this season has proven (Saints, Vikings, Bengals, etc.), a team's rhythm is a huge factor in winning and once that rhythm is lost it is hard to recover.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Wondering would be a needless waste of brain cells...Of course they would. Once posters here decide they are smarter than the HOF HC this is all they do. Criticize, finger point, second guess, hell...some have already gone so far as to demand Kraft do something about it...

Waste of time and keystrokes with some of these guys but it passes the time I guess in the absence of intelligent football talk like this board used to largely feature (with one or two noticable exceptions...).

 

[aluminum seats]

Wondering would be a needless waste of brain cells...Of course they would. Once posters here decide they are smarter than the HOF HC this is all they do. Criticize, finger point, second guess, hell...some have already gone so far as to demand Kraft do something about it...

Waste of time and keystrokes with some of these guys but it passes the time I guess in the absence of intelligent football talk like this board used to largely feature (with one or two noticable exceptions...).

Your constant "get the hell off my lawn" posts are exhausting.

 

[captain stone]

Wondering would be a needless waste of brain cells...Of course they would. Once posters here decide they are smarter than the HOF HC this is all they do. Criticize, finger point, second guess, hell...some have already gone so far as to demand Kraft do something about it...

Waste of time and keystrokes with some of these guys but it passes the time I guess in the absence of intelligent football talk like this board used to largely feature (with one or two noticable exceptions...).

Do you actually have any points to rebut, or will you continue to resort to name-calling of those who disagree with you & your precious HOF HC?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Do you actually have any points to rebut, or will you continue to resort to name-calling of those who disagree with you & your precious HOF HC?

I rebutted them ages ago as did lots of other folks in this and other threads since Sunday. Maybe if you read opinions you disagree with you'd realize that. And I don't resort to calling people names, except maybe the occasional troll or some nitwit that calls me a name first... If people see themselves in some of the behavior descriptions I provide, that's on them.

 

[Brady_12]

Do you actually have any points to rebut, or will you continue to resort to name-calling of those who disagree with you & your precious HOF HC?

Just wondering, who exactly would you pick to replace the village idiot BB?