will we see some Belichick-ean roster manipulation?

[rkarp1]

They traded a first for AJ Brown.

They signed Doubs to a big contract.

It’s funny how you twist and contort to tell us getting open doesn’t matter and efficiency stats matter more than actual production…. you know, receptions, yards, TD’s.

The team extended themselves to find two new starters… they knew they had to get better at the WR position than Boutte and Hollins.

Seems everyone knew it… but you.

AJ Brown does not "get open"

 

[Wozzy]

don't be embarrassed that you are focusing on the wrong numbers. it is no longer the 1990's.
poster Wozzy does the same thing much more often than you, and is doubly pig headed
I simply ask that you relook and try to understand

This is laughable ^

1990’s… what does that even mean?

Actual production still matters more than efficiency stats, especially when every receiver on the team was hyper efficient and had the best downfield stats of their career.

I’m sure “efficiency“ had nothing to do with Drake Maye being really accurate, or being able to throw it 90 yards.

Stefon Diggs got open, Drake saw that he was open more often, he was a crafty route runner, always has been… why Diggs made a career out of producing 1000+ yard seasons and Boutte or Hollins hasn’t. And just for reference he was a 5th round pick… he wasn’t just handed a starting job or targets.

 

[rkarp1]

Efficient? I am talking about production. If a receiver gets open once a game and has a 100% completion rate that receiver is holding back an offense.

If you think a WR doesn’t need to get open why pay any of them?

You should watch more football

production is not counting stats like total yards.
production is efficiency

 

[Wozzy]

AJ Brown does not "get open"

Funny… there’s a bunch of tweets going back to day one of camp that prove you wrong.

Besides being big and strong, Browns is agile for a guy his size. He gets open.

The notion that with more targets Hollins or Boutte would morph into AJ Brown or Diggs is some brain dead nonsense. You think there’s been a conspiracy against these guys or a plan to hold them back their entire careers? Just dumb…

The Patriots acquired Brown and Doubs for a reason. They’re fading Boutte and Hollins for a reason. Stop sniffing glue…

 

[Wozzy]

production is not counting stats like total yards.
production is efficiency

Sure… Justin Jefferson isn’t better than Boutte. He just gets more targets…

You’ve got great potential… as an organ donor.

 

[Ring 6]

production is not counting stats like total yards.
production is efficiency

Absolutely wrong. Production is how far you move the football.
Efficiency is not production.
In your example you think it’s better for a football team to have a guy who gets thrown to rarely, puts up paltry numbers but has a high completion percentage than to have a stud who puts up yards, first downs and tds.

Boutte caught 72% if his targets last year. AJ Brown caught 64%
Who was more productive?

 

[Ring 6]

AJ Brown does not "get open"

Of course he does, do you understand the game at all?

 

[Ring 6]

Sure… Justin Jefferson isn’t better than Boutte. He just gets more targets…

You’ve got great potential… as an organ donor.

The primary job of a receiver is to get open and get targets.

 

[Ring 6]

production is not counting stats like total yards.
production is efficiency

Just an FYI the definition of production is the amount you produce.

 

[Wozzy]

The primary job of a receiver is to get open and get targets.

Agreed, and their ability to get open consistently determines how many targets they get. It’s not coincidence the best WR’s in the league get peppered with targets.

I’m not trying to disrespect Boutte or Hollins but good grief, pretending they’d be Calvin Johnson with more targets is mouth breathing territory.

 

[patchick]

Bill changed how the league thought about rosters and players, and the value of those players.
being a copy cat league, the league eventually followed the leader and most every team operated alike.
when the need to change how the team operated to get an advantage, Bill was either late to that understanding, or simply preferred not to do so.

That’s the Belichick story in a nutshell. One of the all-time greats, a master strategist and team architect, but as he aged he clung too long to what had worked for him in the past and failed to adjust to a changing league.

I’m a lot younger than BB, but old enough that I’m starting to see how hard it is to give up on things you felt were awesome in favor of new trends you hate. I’m increasingly sympathetic on a human level, but not on a football level.

 

[rkarp1]

when Ring and Wozzy are on the same side, I know I am correct

 

[rkarp1]

That’s the Belichick story in a nutshell. One of the all-time greats, a master strategist and team architect, but as he aged he clung too long to what had worked for him in the past and failed to adjust to a changing league.

I’m a lot younger than BB, but old enough that I’m starting to see how hard it is to give up on things you felt were awesome in favor of new trends you hate. I’m increasingly sympathetic on a human level, but not on a football level.

interesting, yet perhaps unrelated, Bill's regression and unwillingness to change may have been averted had he been more willing to bring in outside coaches as his staff left for other opportunities

 

[Family]

That’s the Belichick story in a nutshell. One of the all-time greats, a master strategist and team architect, but as he aged he clung too long to what had worked for him in the past and failed to adjust to a changing league.

I’m a lot younger than BB, but old enough that I’m starting to see how hard it is to give up on things you felt were awesome in favor of new trends you hate. I’m increasingly sympathetic on a human level, but not on a football level.

The thread title is a little ironic because much of the roster manipulation Bill was credited for is now done by the league with the new rules.

The practice squad is now one large shadow roster.

 

[Ring 6]

when Ring and Wozzy are on the same side, I know I am correct

Actually when you can get me to agree with him you have to know you are wrong by a mile.
Randy Miss had a career catch to target rate of 56%. In 2007 in was 61%.
Was Randy Moss not a productive receiver?

 

[rkarp1]

The primary job of a receiver is to get open and get targets.

you and Wozzy are arguing that Boutte and Hollins do not get open, yet they had 111 targets

AJ Brown went from 33% of his snaps in the slot earlier in his career to less than 10% recently.
yet you argue that he "gets open"

watch the game, please. (I know Wozzy does not). separation is minimal on this team. route running last year was poor (other than Diggs) the offense was efficient and productive because Maye put the ball in catchable spots every time, and his targets made those catches, not because they were "open"

 

[Ring 6]

That’s the Belichick story in a nutshell. One of the all-time greats, a master strategist and team architect, but as he aged he clung too long to what had worked for him in the past and failed to adjust to a changing league.

I’m a lot younger than BB, but old enough that I’m starting to see how hard it is to give up on things you felt were awesome in favor of new trends you hate. I’m increasingly sympathetic on a human level, but not on a football level.

The short period of struggling wasn’t about change or adjusting, it was about players. After a ridiculously long dynasty culminating by going all in to get one more ring, the roster was decimated.
The “rebuild” of 2021 and the drafts in that era didn’t bring enough talent to sustain the success. It’s as simple as that.
What you do that works with a talented roster doesn’t work with an untalented one. Look back at the 2022 Patriots roster for example. What you see is a lack of talent, not a lack of adjusting to change. In fact the most stubborn old school coach in the league has won the most since 2018

 

[rkarp1]

putting down my phone now
I am at practice

 

[WazzuWheatfarmer]

putting down my phone now
I am at practice

Enjoy it and give us some thoughts if you get a chance.

 

[Ring 6]

you and Wozzy are arguing that Boutte and Hollins do not get open, yet they had 111 targets

AJ Brown went from 33% of his snaps in the slot earlier in his career to less than 10% recently.
yet you argue that he "gets open"

watch the game, please. (I know Wozzy does not). separation is minimal on this team. route running last year was poor (other than Diggs) the offense was efficient and productive because Maye put the ball in catchable spots every time, and his targets made those catches, not because they were "open"

I thought you were smart enough to understand that don’t get open does not mean never, it means not frequently enough.

What does snaps from the slot have to do with anything?

Think about what you are saying. The offense struggled in the playoffs BECAUSE receivers couldn’t get open. Maye was running for his life many times because receivers couldn’t get open. If you didn’t need receivers to be open why would you ever take a sack? Just trip to your first progression. They don’t have to be open right?
So the team went out and spent big on 2 WRs. Why do that if it doesn’t matter?

You are conflating Mayes incredible accuracy with WR skill. Yes Maye makes everyone better. That doesn’t mean Maye isn’t better with better receivers. The team knows that.

Hollins has a career of getting targeted rarely when he runs routes. Why do you think that is? Suddenly last year he has a very high completion percentage. Do you think that makes him a better receiver all of a sudden.
What if we had a guy out there that earned a lot of targets? Fewer check downs, fewer sacks, less apt to leave the pocket. You yourself are saying Maye can complete passes to anyone, so why wouldn’t you want a receiver with skills to beat coverage and get open instead of one that ran 363 routes but only was targeted 64 times.
Think about that. Maye according to you doesn’t need a receiver to be open but only 1 time in 6 threw to his WR. WRs are supposed to get the bulk of the targets.
What does it tell you if you put a WR out there (one of at most 5 eligible receivers) and you don’t even throw to him 20% of the time?