Will Mac Jones be the starter after the Bye ?

[sb1]

Two of the lowest scoring games in Patriot Super Bowl history. The defense did their job, the offense didn't... and also had the only turnovers in those games. And BTW... the offense had the ball last in both of those games, so don't complain to me about crunch-time.

After the defense surrendered the game winning drives late to Eli Manning after Brady gave them the lead. Twice. Shame Bill's defense came up small when it mattered the most.

You forgot to comment on the 2018 Rams win, or Malcolm Butler interception, or how Tom threw one TD in the entire 2001 postseason... but you're right... Tom did it all on his own.

Lol. 15-6 in the playoffs when his opponents score 20+ points. Says it all louder than that other stuff does.

If Zappe or Grier play terrible then they're terrible... they'll have seven or so games to prove it assuming they get the start.

Zappe is terrible, he has a 36 rating this year. He was bad in camp and in preseason. Why do we need to wait 7 games to draw conclusions?

Grier hasn't played any meaningful football since 2019. He lost his job to Sam Darnold and PJ Walker. I wouldn't count on him being the guy either.

Unfortunately Mac is the best we have. It's a futile exercise to showcase those guys, they're not auditioning for a starting role on this or any team. Jones will probably sit for a game and then he'll start again.

Mac isn't the guy either so we have no QB. It sucks but hopefully it will be fixed in the next year or two.

You don't seem to get it. I never said "Zappe will play great," I said it's a complete unknown.

You're the only person in this conversation making bold predictions.

Is it that bold to say neither QB is the guy when every piece of evidence we have says so? That also goes for Mac Jones too.

 

[Wozzy]

Okay then you think Bill should be fired?

I want to see who he starts going forward. I want to see what the team does going forward.

I think he was wrong last year when he benched Zappe after he was playing well and his confidence was high.

Your "Wozzy is a BB homer" garbage isn't grounded in fact or anything I've said.

Whenever a Brady zealot hears someone be critical about Tom, or even mentions that Tom might be human... you automatically think he must be a BB apologist or some nonsense.

You do realize there is a subsection of fans who don't see any competition to prove who was more important... and who think that people like you who need that soap opera nonsense in their life are silly right?

 

[sb1]

I think he was wrong last year when he benched Zappe after he was playing well and his confidence was high.

That part I agree with not because Zappe was playing well or anything but because Jones wasn't ready to come back... and it showed.

 

[Wozzy]

After the defense surrendered the game winning drives late to Eli Manning after Brady gave them the lead. Twice. Shame Bill's defense came up small when it mattered the most.

Tom and the offense had the ball last, using your criteria isn't that the offense failing? Especially considering our defense only surrendered 14 and 17 points all game?

Lol. 15-6 in the playoffs when his opponents score 20+ points. Says it all louder than that other stuff does.

You just copy/paste things when you're getting slaughtered by facts and logic. That's not how debate works, go back to school.

Is it that bold to say neither QB is the guy when every piece of evidence we have says so? That also goes for Mac Jones too.

Two starts by Zappe is too small a sample size to know. You have no evidence beyond BB playing Mac, he played Bledsoe over Brady, he played Damien Harris over Rhamondre... BB is clearly wrong sometimes. You have zero proof... but again, you're the only one here pretending to see the future.

 

[sb1]

Tom and the offense had the ball last, using your criteria isn't that the offense failing? Especially considering our defense only surrendered 14 and 17 points all game?

They still had the chance to stop Eli Manning and win a championship. Not Peyton Manning, Eli his dopey inferior younger brother. And failed miserably both times.

You just copy/paste things when you're getting slaughtered by facts and logic. That's not how debate works, go back to school.

"Slaughtered" LMAO. No it's called trumping every single counter point with my ace. Until that's beaten I'll keep doing it.

Two starts by Zappe is too small a sample size to know. You have no evidence beyond BB playing Mac, he played Bledsoe over Brady, he played Damien Harris over Rhamondre... BB is clearly wrong sometimes. You have zero proof... but again, you're the only one here pretending to see the future.

I don't have proof but I have overwhelming evidence that backs me up when I say neither of them are better than Mac Jones. Not even close.

I get it... Zappe is more likeable than Mac so we all cheer for him. I agree with that. He is easier to cheer for. But he's not good. Wishful thinking doesn't change that.

 

[Wozzy]

Okay then you think Bill should be fired?

I'm not privy to the inner workings of Gillette enough to make an educated decision and it's not my team.

But if you're asking me to guess... if BB played Mac this entire season with no directive from above, and he could have played Zappe or Grier sooner but didn't... yeah, he's lost his fastball and should be fired. He says he makes decisions that are best for the team all the time... how is letting Mac lead the entire NFL in turnovers best for his team. A younger BB never would have let them happen, a younger BB would have made the tough decision regardless of what fans or even ownership thought.

I think it will be substantially worse at this point if Zappe gets the start going forward and lights up the scoreboard. That would show that he never should have pulled Zappe last year and he was no aberration. Grier at least joined the team late, if he plays well at least they could say he wasn't ready until now.

But at that point... who are you replacing BB with? He is the guy who drafted Zappe after all. How is that different than the 49ers screwing up the Trey Lance pick but saving their butts by picking Purdy later.

I'm not a millennial or Gen-Z... I remember when the Patriots were the league doormat. I remember when year after year the head coach and front office positions were a revolving door of losers coming and going.

I don't think it's smart in this league to be rash. I also think if this team started the season with a great QB, we'd be having a completely different conversation about the 2023 Patriots. They're not as devoid of talent as many boo-birds suggest... they're just really bad at the one position you absolutely can't be. BB with a great QB could turn this team around fast... a lesser coach probably not.

 

[Wozzy]

They still had the chance to stop Eli Manning and win a championship. Not Peyton Manning, Eli his dopey inferior younger brother. And failed miserably both times.

The Patriots offense had the ball last and failed to win the game.

The Patriot offense only scored 14 and 17 points and had the games only turnovers... so the offense failed.

No matter how you dance... the offense failed.

"Slaughtered" LMAO. No it's called trumping every single counter point with my ace. Until that's beaten I'll keep doing it.

No, you're being slaughtered and just repeating yourself because you think wearing me down with repetition is the same as being correct.

I don't have proof but I have overwhelming evidence that backs me up when I say neither of them are better than Mac Jones. Not even close.

I get it... Zappe is more likeable than Mac so we all cheer for him. I agree with that. He is easier to cheer for. But he's not good. Wishful thinking doesn't change that.

You have zero evidence or proof... you just claim to know. That's you pretending to see the future.

Give me the numbers for the winning Powerball this weekend... let's see how accurate you are?

 

[sb1]

The Patriots offense had the ball last and failed to win the game.

The Patriot offense only scored 14 and 17 points and had the games only turnovers... so the offense failed.

No matter how you dance... the offense failed.

And yet it's still a fact that when it mattered most, when they had to get a stop to win a championship they came up small. Again.

At least Brady did his job when it mattered. Shame the defense didn't do theirs.

No, you're being slaughtered and just repeating yourself because you think wearing me down with repetition is the same as being correct.

Lol I'll take that as an admission that yes it was more Brady carrying his defense in the postseason than vice versa. No shame in admitting that cause that's what the numbers say.

 

[Nehalem]

I said postseason… they also ranked 32nd in rushing attempts in 2020 until the Saints destroyed them. That’s when they started rushing more, but they really ramped it up in the postseason where they led the entire league in rushing.

Yeah. And then they went back to passing during the 2021 seasons while Arians was still HC.

 

[javajunky]

Mac Jones is going to **** us! He will play just well enough to keep us out of the top two picks but still find a way to make it a lost season.

 

[Wozzy]

And yet it's still a fact that when it mattered most, when they had to get a stop to win a championship they came up small. Again.

Not against the Giants twice, the offense had the ball last and didn't. That's not my opinion, that's what actually happened.

And they wouldn't need the defense to stop the Giants again if the offense could have managed more than 14 and 17 points and stopped turning the ball over.

The first turnover in the 2011 Super Bowl was a safety to start the game, not only gave them the ball back but two points to boot... this after our D stopped the Giants on the opening drive of the game. The Patriots offenses in both super bowls went from scoring 30+ points in the regular season to half that in the Super Bowl... half... and turned it over. They failed. I don't think it was Brady's fault entirely, the offenses around him were flawed, too finesse with weak rushing attacks.

Lol I'll take that as an admission that yes it was more Brady carrying his defense in the postseason than vice versa. No shame in admitting that cause that's what the numbers say.

Brady was a massive part of his teams success, that's a lot different than giving him all the credit. It's different than saying blocking, defense, special teams and coaching don't matter or those teams weren't good around him... which is what you've been arguing. That's plain ignorant.

And why don't we stop talking about the past and derailing threads like the mod asked. Thanks.

 

[Wozzy]

Mac Jones is going to **** us! He will play just well enough to keep us out of the top two picks but still find a way to make it a lost season.

They're averaging 14 points a game with Mac Jones. Second to last in the NFL.

If they win any games, it will be because of the defense and run game, which has carried them whenever Mac hasn't turned it over.

This ^ of course if another QB doesn't get the start and play well.

 

[sb1]

Not against the Giants twice, the offense had the ball last and didn't. That's not my opinion, that's what actually happened.

And they wouldn't need the defense to stop the Giants again if the offense could have managed more than 14 and 17 points and stopped turning the ball over.

The first turnover in the 2011 Super Bowl was a safety to start the game, not only gave them the ball back but two points to boot... this after our D stopped the Giants on the opening drive of the game. The Patriots offenses in both super bowls went from scoring 30+ points in the regular season to half that in the Super Bowl... half... and turned it over. They failed. I don't think it was Brady's fault entirely, the offenses around him were flawed, too finesse with weak rushing attacks.

Brady was a massive part of his teams success, that's a lot different than giving him all the credit. It's different than saying blocking, defense, special teams and coaching don't matter or those teams weren't good around him... which is what you've been arguing. That's plain ignorant.

And why don't we stop talking about the past and derailing threads like the mod asked. Thanks.

Nice try but I get the last word Brady does his job to win a lot more often than not. Fact. If the defense did their job in those SB's with one key stop in each game they have two more rings. Fact. Brady carried his defense a lot more than vice versa. Backed up by fact once again. Q. E. D. Now we're done.

My whole point was it's a double standard to call other people "Mac shills" when they point out the team failure this season and then following it up with the "it's a team" game to downplay Brady's accomplishments. It's either a team game or it's not... you can't go back and forth with that logic when it suits you.

 

[sb1]

They're averaging 14 points a game with Mac Jones. Second to last in the NFL.

If they win any games, it will be because of the defense and run game, which has carried them whenever Mac hasn't turned it over.

This ^ of course if another QB doesn't get the start and play well.

The Patriots will have a new QB room next season so it doesn't matter if another QB gets the start and plays well. None of the QB room is auditioning for a starter job in NE. That ship is long gone. Probably a new coach and GM too and they'll want to shape the team their way so it's much more likely than not Zappe and Grier will be out the door either by trade or release. I wouldn't be surprised if Mac Jones sticks around a bit longer as the bridge to the new rookie. Maybe.

 

[Wozzy]

Yeah. And then they went back to passing during the 2021 seasons while Arians was still HC.

In the 2021 postseason they ran the ball quite a bit in the first game, but Fournette was coming off the IR and unavailable, their other backs sucked... but they still ran and won. In the second game they got down 20-3 at the half, Fournette was a big part of that comeback, but they should have run the ball more and earlier. The Rams ran the hell out of the ball and controlled the time of possession. The Bucs ran 14 times and lost.

I'm not talking about the time they didn't run the ball and lost, I'm talking about the time they did and won. I don't doubt the run game was a bigger deal to Arians than it was to his QB, or Tom's yes man at coordinator. All I know is after Arians got canned, they didn't even pretend to run after the first game. They only eclipsed 100 rushing yards three times in 2022... all three were wins and they only won eight games total. A QB is always going to want to pass, a coach is there to keep his players honest and accountable.

 

[Wozzy]

The Patriots will have a new QB room next season so it doesn't matter if another QB gets the start and plays well. None of the QB room is auditioning for a starter job in NE. That ship is long gone. Probably a new coach and GM too and they'll want to shape the team their way so it's much more likely than not Zappe and Grier will be out the door either by trade or release. I wouldn't be surprised if Mac Jones sticks around a bit longer as the bridge to the new rookie. Maybe.

Do us all a favor... stop posting things like you have a crystal ball. You don't.

 

[Wozzy]

Nice try but I get the last word Brady does his job to win a lot more often than not. Fact. If the defense did their job in those SB's with one key stop in each game they have two more rings. Fact. Brady carried his defense a lot more than vice versa. Backed up by fact once again. Q. E. D. Now we're done.

My whole point was it's a double standard to call other people "Mac shills" when they point out the team failure this season and then following it up with the "it's a team" game to downplay Brady's accomplishments. It's either a team game or it's not... you can't go back and forth with that logic when it suits you.

Brady passed for 505 yards 3 TD's and lost to the Eagles in the Super Bowl... it's clearly a team game.

We wouldn't be having this conversation if you didn't suggest an individual player has magic powers or team didn't matter.

I never go back and forth, a QB is part of the team, not apart from it.

 

[Pape]

Mac Jones is going to **** us! He will play just well enough to keep us out of the top two picks but still find a way to make it a lost season.

Awww man that's so unfair... Give Mac a chance, I have faith he will find a way to fick up any chance at victory... Stay strong brother, top 3 pick here we come...

 

[Grogan14]

Yips - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Mac has it!! Best exemplified on the interception he threw in the Indianapolis game.
Perhaps a sports psychologist could cure him???

He has

1. Yips
2. No confidence, with anxiety about getting crushed in pocket
3. Bad coaching
4. No OL protection
5. No skill player weapons
6. Poor foot work and weak arm
7. Low pain tolerance

Anyone of these could explain a bad season. He has the perfect storm...7 factors. He should not start for the patriots ever again!

 

[chasa]

oh sweet, another mac jones sucks post.

Also calling it Mac jones disease is really doing a disservice to all of the quarterbacks who saw ghosts before him.

Might i recommend this vintage San Darnold video: