Will BenJarvus Green-Ellis Make the 53?

[Patspsycho]

You are right. They are fourth and fifth stringers too. BJGE didn't take a single snap with the first team this preseason. If Belichick felt the guy was competiting for a lead role, he would get snaps with the first string.

It seems like every year Pats fans fall in love with a "stud" who looks great playing against the second, third, and fourth strings and they do nothing in the regular season if they actually make the team. Bam Childress, Patrick Cobbs, Ray Ventrone, etc. have all been deemed must keeps and will make an impact on this team and the best they have done is been contributors on special teams (Ventrone).

The argument here is not whether he is first or second string, the argument here is whether he makes the team or not. I did not make any claim that he should start with first string offense.

But I think he has the raw talent to make the roster. That is what I am arguing. His blocking needs a lot more work; he needs to pick up on and interpret the blocking schematics.

 

[Rob0729]

With all due respect:

If 2nd and 3rd stringers were consistently on their talent, then HOW do we have any first stringers?

Not every player is automatically a first stringer out of college.. THAT is what make it statistically impossible.

Don't forget Brady once was a second stringer! Oh excuse me, he was actually #3 for a short bit.

Huh?!? They do have first stringers. They are just out of the game by the time BJGE gets on the field. In the first game, the first stringers play a quarter, a half in the second game, a little over a half in the third game, and maybe a series or two the last game. After that, the back ups and the guys who will be out of the league get their chance to make the team.

Yes, at some point second and third stringers might become starters. That doesn't mean they are starting quality players just stuck in the back up roll.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

Two things:

1. Playing against second-stringers also means (for the most part) playing with second-stringers. Sure, he is going up against lesser quality talent than Maroney or Taylor would, but he also has inexperienced linemen and wide receivers blocking for him, impacting his results.

2. He doesn't chose what plays he's in on. Criticizing him for not delivering against first-stringers is like criticizing a team for starting the season 5-0 against terrible teams: they don't choose their own schedule. You perform against whoever is put in front of you. BGJE doesn't choose the defensive players, so you can't hold that against him. All he can do is perform his best with the talent on the field for the play.

 

[Rob0729]

The argument here is not whether he is first or second string, the argument here is whether he makes the team or not. I did not make any claim that he should start with first string offense.

But I think he has the raw talent to make the roster. That is what I am arguing. His blocking needs a lot more work; he needs to pick up on and interpret the blocking schematics.

I am arguing that he only makes the team if there are either concerns about Morris and/or they decide to keep 5 RBs. He is not a lock. He has a shot.

I am still not sold on him being anything more than another guy who is making the most of his opportunity in the preseason.

 

[Patspsycho]

Huh?!? They do have first stringers. They are just out of the game by the time BJGE gets on the field. In the first game, the first stringers play a quarter, a half in the second game, a little over a half in the third game, and maybe a series or two the last game. After that, the back ups and the guys who will be out of the league get their chance to make the team.

Yes, at some point second and third stringers might become starters. That doesn't mean they are starting quality players just stuck in the back up roll.

They are in various stages of emerging. That is my point. You can't just one day suddenly become a first stringer. Statistically speaking there is evolvement, and some players are on the verge of becoming first stringers, some improving from 3rd to 2nd, some falling back, some rising. That is the statistics I am talking about- the evolvement of talent is fluid and dynamic, not rigid and formulaic.

 

[Rob0729]

Two things:

1. Playing against second-stringers also means (for the most part) playing with second-stringers. Sure, he is going up against lesser quality talent than Maroney or Taylor would, but he also has inexperienced linemen and wide receivers blocking for him, impacting his results.

2. He doesn't chose what plays he's in on. Criticizing him for not delivering against first-stringers is like criticizing a team for starting the season 5-0 against terrible teams: they don't choose their own schedule. You perform against whoever is put in front of you. BGJE doesn't choose the defensive players, so you can't hold that against him. All he can do is perform his best with the talent on the field for the play.

You play against the second and third strings because the coaching staff don't think you are good enough to play against the first string.

I am not criticizing him for playing against the second and third strings. I am saying performance vs. the second and third strings can be deceiving. Look at it this way, the Pats made Sinorice Moss look like Randy Moss tonight. Is Sinorice really ready to bust out and play like Randy Moss or was he covered by scrubs who will be looking for a job outside of the NFL next week?

 

[Rob0729]

They are in various stages of emerging. That is my point. You can't just one day suddenly become a first stringer. Statistically speaking there is evolvement, and some players are on the verge of becoming first stringers, some improving from 3rd to 2nd, some falling back, some rising. That is the statistics I am talking about- the evolvement of talent is fluid and dynamic, not rigid and formulaic.

At this point, if they are second and third strings, they are most likely where they are. If Chris Taylor wasn't injured, BJGE wouldn't have been playing against the "Well it was nice to have an NFL career while it lasted crowd" when he rattled off his 32 yard TD run. Many of those guys won't even be a string come cutdown day.

 

[Patspsycho]

I am arguing that he only makes the team if there are either concerns about Morris and/or they decide to keep 5 RBs. He is not a lock. He has a shot.

I am still not sold on him being anything more than another guy who is making the most of his opportunity in the preseason.

Well what would you do?

Would you go with 4 RBs, 3 of who are over 30, and one who is under 30 but has injury issues?

Or would you try to make it more balanced by having one more player that is under 30?

You could trade for another RB, but why not use the one that's way under 30 and has already been in your system for a year?

 

[BadMoFo]

idk....that is a big question this year though...

but since morris and fred will be gone soon, and since maroney is a ?, and faulk is getting older.....yes, i think BB keeps him

Good point, no one ever mentions that he, and not Maroney, may be the future. One thing is for sure, we know he can take 30 carries in a game and not limp off the field. He actually seemed to get better as the game wore on. I've never been as big a BGJE fan as many here, but I definitely see him making an NFL squad, most likely ours.

 

[Patspsycho]

At this point, if they are second and third strings, they are most likely where they are. If Chris Taylor wasn't injured, BJGE wouldn't have been playing against the "Well it was nice to have an NFL career while it lasted crowd" when he rattled off his 32 yard TD run. Many of those guys won't even be a string come cutdown day.

The NFL is too competitive and too talented for anyone to be able to just platform and stay in the league for years on end. That is just not possible. You are either getting better or getting worse.

With that in mind, it is also statistically impossible for every 2nd stringer to be "getting worse." There is always a few that are getting better, and so on and forth.

 

[Rob0729]

Well what would you do?

Would you go with 4 RBs, 3 of who are over 30, and one who is under 30 but has injury issues?

Or would you try to make it more balanced by having one more player that is under 30?

You could trade for another RB, but why not use the one that's way under 30 and has already been in your system for a year?

The Pats made a conscious effort to go old at RB. There were other decent younger RBs out there either in free agency or the draft. So Belichick seemed prepared to go into the season with Maroney, Morris, Taylor, and Faulk.

I am just not convinced that BJGE is anymore than a JAG though. He hasn't proven consistent production in real games when he was given a chance last year. Just because he is young and looks like a hero vs. the back ups that doesn't mean he is a real viable option to be a lead back for a five or six game stretch if neccessary.

I am not saying cut the guy. I am saying he only stays if they keep 5 RBs or there is a real concern about Morris.

 

[Rob0729]

The NFL is too competitive and too talented for anyone to be able to just platform and stay in the league for years on end. That is just not possible. You are either getting better or getting worse.

With that in mind, it is also statistically impossible for every 2nd stringer to be "getting worse." There is always a few that are getting better, and so on and forth.

There are plenty of guys who fall into the category of "you are what you are". The Pats have had guys like Jarvis Green, Larry Izzo, etc. who spent years being specific role players and not getting any farther or any worse.

Stop acting like the Giants back ups are a bunch of starters who are just waiting for their shot.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Good point, no one ever mentions that he, and not Maroney, may be the future. One thing is for sure, we know he can take 30 carries in a game and not limp off the field. He actually seemed to get better as the game wore on. I've never been as big a BGJE fan as many here, but I definitely see him making an NFL squad, most likely ours.

I agree, I think that is part of why he was out there as much as he was. Obvioulsy breaking fo the other guys, but also to see what kind of production he could get later in the game. He def. played better as the game went on, partly as NYG scrubs came in, but also cause he seems to be that kinda back.

125 on 30 is a decent night......... against scrubs or not. Let's not forget, as was mentioned, he had "scrubs" and rooks opening holes and blocking for him to.

I think he has a real solid shot of making it, and I'm not sure that we'd carry 5 backs either. Someone might be on the suprise cut list.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Going 29 for 125yards, and 3TDs, at a 4.3 ypc clip will certainly help...

 

[Patspsycho]

There are plenty of guys who fall into the category of "you are what you are". The Pats have had guys like Jarvis Green, Larry Izzo, etc. who spent years being specific role players and not getting any farther or any worse.

Stop acting like the Giants back ups are a bunch of starters who are just waiting for their shot.

I am not making my assessment on tonight's game. Tonight's game was just the exclamation point on the body of work he has been submitting over last year. I have been a fan of his from day one.

 

[PatsChamp88]

Yes without a doubt, all we can do now is sit back and wait for the roster cut down. I would be disappointed to see him get cut but the NFL is a business he would easily find a home somewhere else, to say hes a JAG is a bit absurd he has progressed nicely.

 

[Bartmac36]

I agree, I think that is part of why he was out there as much as he was. Obvioulsy breaking fo the other guys, but also to see what kind of production he could get later in the game. He def. played better as the game went on, partly as NYG scrubs came in, but also cause he seems to be that kinda back.

125 on 30 is a decent night......... against scrubs or not. Let's not forget, as was mentioned, he had "scrubs" and rooks opening holes and blocking for him to.

I think he has a real solid shot of making it, and I'm not sure that we'd carry 5 backs either. Someone might be on the suprise cut list.

If any of them end up getting cut, Maroney would be my first choice, unless Morris is seriously injured...

 

[JackBauer]

If any of them end up getting cut, Maroney would be my first choice, unless Morris is seriously injured...

Well I suppose we can all thank the lord it's not your decision to make.

 

[Reckedtrek]

Up until a day or so ago, it was "he's NOT making the team" and "you can go in the back alley and pick up a homeless bum to run like he does".

Now it's "He won't be a starter" or "He'll only make the team if they keep 5 RB's".

In other words, I hear some degree of back pedaling going on here. As much as there are people here who seem to blindly support the guy despite the facts, there are just as many who want to tear him down despite the facts. Maybe Morris won't be available until week 6. Maybe they trade Maroney (doubt it), maybe they keep 5 backs... however it happens, I think he will make the team. Then again, maybe he gets cut or traded.

I don't think he's the best (or second or third best) RB on the team, but I think he can make a worthwile contribution to the team. He gives everything he has, had a couple of good games last year (building block games) and since he was undrafted he's an underdog. I think between the underdog status and giving it his all, and doing well enough last year while filling in, he's won alot of fan support. We'll know in about 36 hours if he's made a good enough impression on the ONLY guy that counts when it comes to the 53 man roster.

 

[Rob0729]

I am not making my assessment on tonight's game. Tonight's game was just the exclamation point on the body of work he has been submitting over last year. I have been a fan of his from day one.

Was it exclaimation point to the sentence:

I was overrated last year based on one game!

or perhaps

I got 20 yards on seven carries vs. the Dolphins and 16 yards on nine carries vs. the Rams last year!

Again, you take away his game vs. the Bills and really what did he do? The guy had 275 yards and 5 TDs on 74 carries (averaged 3.7 YPC). Those aren't exactly stellar numbers. Why do people make him out to be something he wasn't last year?