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Wickersham Strikes: Belichick talked to Giants/Dolphins/Washington about coaching there in Brady standoff

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Ice_Ice_Brady

Team Bill's Worst Nightmare
Great response, thanks.

Just to push back a bit - I wonder how likely it is that well-informed lower level guys are going to talk to a reporter (especially one like Wickersham who has famously already dropped a bomb on the Patriots.) This piece has a bit about how "nobody knows anything because BB doesn't tell them, just buries them in work"... well that tells me that there are probably not many people in the building who could know (beyond just having heard a rumor) that BB reached out to WAS, NYG, or MIA. So, if we've got a small # of lower level guys who could actually know that BB was asking around, those guys are risking putting themselves in a bad place with respect to the Kraft Family and/or Belichick.

That's why I kinda figure one / both of the principles has to be involved here. As @Ian said, Jonathan seems plausible as a source. But, I'll keep your post in mind when I give the new Wickersham piece another read.

Sure - I think both things can be true. For one, if Wickersham applies real journalism standards, then he would need someone. like Jonathan and at least additional confirmimng source if not more. My issue is, if you're writing an article with that many unnameed sources, it's really impossible to know how solid each piece of information is, or how many levels of hearsay are involved. But, overall, there's no question his report had a lot of inside scoop and wasn't just a rumor mill.
 

Deus Irae

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Whether it is true or not. Why do even want to keep focusing on stuff that happened four years ago and even if Belichick did explore other head coaching jobs, the talks never went anywhere?
Because people want to have all the accurate information possible on what led to seemingly easily avoidable problems, and the apparently needless loss of the G.O.A.T. to the Tampa Bay Bucs.
 

Lansdowne

In the Starting Line-Up
curiously, since that whole “incident”, Kraft has not meddled in operations ever again!
Yeah I don’t know about that.


Brady was trying to help Brown stabilize. He disagrees with the business decision made by Robert Kraft to jettison Brown.
 

ctpatsfan77

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My point simply was, much of what he wrote ended up being true. If you're saying 100% of what he wrote was wrong, that's just not accurate. Time, and other facts that eventually emerged since then, have proven that there ended up being some truth to quite a few parts of that story.
The big problem is that the crux of the argument—that Belichick wanted to dump Brady and make Garoppolo the starter, and Kraft forced him to do the reverse—makes no sense, for at least two major reasons.

First off, there's the sheer PR aspect of it. Belichick could not have been unaware of the fact that trading Brady, less than a year after 28–3, would cause a fan revolt.

Second, there's the financial aspect of it. If Belichick had even considered that Garoppolo was the future, he should never have agreed to extend Brady in 2015. The cap cost of trading Brady and keeping Garoppolo would have left the team in 2020-like straits.
 

ctpatsfan77

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No doubt in my mind that bb felt betrayed when Kraft stabbed him in the back and sides with Brady and made bb trade jimmy g.

I think bb was exploring a return to the giants, but Kraft did whatever he had to do to smooth it over.

curiously, since that whole “incident”, Kraft has not meddled in operations ever again!
The Patriots opened the 2018 season with about $15M in cap space. And that was with Brady under contract and not a cap casualty. How, exactly, do they make Garoppolo the starter and trade Brady without going into cap hell?

As I've said elsewhere, if Belichick wants to blame someone for being "forced to keep" Brady, he should look in a mirror.
 

Deus Irae

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The big problem is that the crux of the argument—that Belichick wanted to dump Brady and make Garoppolo the starter, and Kraft forced him to do the reverse—makes no sense, for at least two major reasons.

First off, there's the sheer PR aspect of it. Belichick could not have been unaware of the fact that trading Brady, less than a year after 28–3, would cause a fan revolt.

Second, there's the financial aspect of it. If Belichick had even considered that Garoppolo was the future, he should never have agreed to extend Brady in 2015. The cap cost of trading Brady and keeping Garoppolo would have left the team in 2020-like straits.
Same guy was going to trade Gronk until Gronk threatened retirement.
 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
Because people want to have all the accurate information possible on what led to seemingly easily avoidable problems, and the apparently needless loss of the G.O.A.T. to the Tampa Bay Bucs.
The bigger question I always have asked is why no succession plan after we traded Jimmy? Only took Etling in the 7th and Stidham in the 4th. My only conclusion now is Bill really believed Robert would get a deal done with Brady last year despite his putrid roster, crap deal offer, and all the signs that Brady was moving on. Bill also must have believed in Stidham at least through the draft last year until he didn't and signed Newton at the end of June. Such colossal mismanagement of the most critical position that I think we are looking for anything to try to understand but this Wickersham piece is just rehashing everything we already knew.
 

PP2

Pro Bowl Player
I'm not sure Florio thinks Wickersham is worth acknowledging anymore. He personally refuted Wickersham's main point (Kraft forcing Belichick to trade Garoppolo) within hours of the story being released. His NBC Sports colleague, Tom Curran, has basically called Wickersham a liar in reference to that claim.

And the thread should have ended right here.
 

patsfanincleveland

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I haven't clicked it yet, but one could see Bill just making sure he knew what his options were if things didn't go his way.

Yeah

That's about the sum.

Has anyone on this thread not had a bad day at work and checked Help Wanted or hasn't called a recruiter before?

BB having total control makes this look legit because the whole episode would mean BB doesn't have total control.

There's a lot less here than meets the eye. Frankly, I would be shocked if he didn't check around.
 

Wozzy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
No doubt in my mind that bb felt betrayed when Kraft stabbed him in the back and sides with Brady and made bb trade jimmy g.

I think bb was exploring a return to the giants, but Kraft did whatever he had to do to smooth it over.

curiously, since that whole “incident”, Kraft has not meddled in operations ever again!
Jimmy G was in the final year of his rookie deal, he had all the leverage.

He didn't want to sign an extension to be a backup. BB had to trade him or risk losing him for nothing.

Kraft forcing his hand is soap opera nonsense cooked up by local media hacks creating clickbait.
 
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Wozzy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Because people want to have all the accurate information possible on what led to seemingly easily avoidable problems, and the apparently needless loss of the G.O.A.T. to the Tampa Bay Bucs.
Cap debt, it wasn't needless... math doesn't lie.
 

Wozzy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Same guy was going to trade Gronk until Gronk threatened retirement.
Gronk was negotiating his contract through the media. He showed up at some motocross event at Gillette and made stupid comments so Bill threatened to ship him to Detroit. Rosenhaus told Gronk to get his butt in BB's office and work out a deal, the Patriots retained Gronk at the price they wanted. That's called negotiations.
 

lancerman

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
The bigger question I always have asked is why no succession plan after we traded Jimmy? Only took Etling in the 7th and Stidham in the 4th. My only conclusion now is Bill really believed Robert would get a deal done with Brady last year despite his putrid roster, crap deal offer, and all the signs that Brady was moving on. Bill also must have believed in Stidham at least through the draft last year until he didn't and signed Newton at the end of June. Such colossal mismanagement of the most critical position that I think we are looking for anything to try to understand but this Wickersham piece is just rehashing everything we already knew.
I 100% believe that they thought Brady wouldn't leave and would take one year deals because who could see Brady not retiring with the Patriots? What they probably didn't expect was a **** show at the wide receiver position that made an aging Brady say "why I am I putting up with this, there's gotta be a team out there that has talent that is going to commit to me". And then Brady found the perfect landing spot in Tampa where you had a talented stacked team, especially on offense, with a coach that people generally find legit, and was willing to roll out the red carpet for Brady.

Once they let Jimmy G go they probably should have just resigned themselves to the idea that the best course of action was to ride Brady until the wheels fell off and just commit to him outright, but they wanted to have their cake and eat it too.
 

lancerman

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Gronk was negotiating his contract through the media. He showed up at some motocross event at Gillette and made stupid comments so Bill threatened to ship him to Detroit. Rosenhaus told Gronk to get his butt in BB's office and work out a deal, the Patriots retained Gronk at the price they wanted. That's called negotiations.
And what happened? Gronk ended up saying "screw this" and retired the next year and then found his love of the game again when he could unretire and force a way out to Tampa because it would have screwed our cap situation. So some negotiation.
 

Wozzy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
And what happened? Gronk ended up saying "screw this" and retired the next year and then found his love of the game again when he could unretire and force a way out to Tampa because it would have screwed our cap situation. So some negotiation.
Gronk retired because he suffered a hematoma in his thigh, or don't you remember him crying about it during his CBD tour. When he decided to come back the Pats were up to their ears in cap debt from pushing to win 3 rings and playing in 4 Super Bowls in five years. Both Tom and Gronk have 3 extra rings on their fingers because Bill was a tightwad and stretched a nickel into 25 cents. Meanwhile after that season BB and Linda attended Gronk's super bowl beach bash like old friends. It's a total fan take to think any of this BS is about "feelings," it's about millions of dollars... this isn't a Spanish telenovela.
 

Rob0729

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Because people want to have all the accurate information possible on what led to seemingly easily avoidable problems, and the apparently needless loss of the G.O.A.T. to the Tampa Bay Bucs.

I doubt it was an easily avoidable problem. This was a long time coming and I think there wee a lot of mistakes and issues over the years by all sides that led to this.

And let's face it without the benefit of hindsight, it wasn't a cut and dry decision to whether or not to keep Brady over Garoppolo. Four years ago, people were still laughing at Brady when he said he was going to play until he was 45. Brady is doing something that no has ever done and it will likely be a long while before another QB plays at a high level into his forties like this. And four years ago few people other than Brady truly believed he could be still playing at this level at this age.

Hell, a decade ago you were complaining about how Belichick was wasting Brady's last few years of being an elite player as if he would be done being elite in his mid to late 30s. Brady and Belichick won three Super Bowls after that.
 

Rob0729

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And what happened? Gronk ended up saying "screw this" and retired the next year and then found his love of the game again when he could unretire and force a way out to Tampa because it would have screwed our cap situation. So some negotiation.

Gronk's body was badly beaten up and he needed a break. Many people felt it was more of an one year recovery than a real retirement. And I bet if Brady stayed with the Pats, Gronk would have played for the Pats last year.
 

Keyser Söze

In the Starting Line-Up
I remember when everyone on here slammed this guy for reporting their was dysfunction between Brady and Belichick......
 
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