Why the F#$# Not?

[Ring 6]

We have to stop comparing Cassel to Brady and the situation in 2001

Do you guys understand that QBs as dominant as Brady and P. Manning in today's league are so rare that they really only come around about once in about 10 years?

Just stop comparing what Brady did to what you think Cassel will duplicate

If you are lucky Cassel will manage his position just good enough to avoid messing up and let the other vets take over the productivity of the offense

IMO Cassel will NOT be the guy that puts this team on his back like Brady did in 2001 so please stop with the ridiculous comparisons - Tom became a leader of the team overnight,Cassel will likely mix in

Brady is Brady and is one of those special players that are as rare as uncooked steak and was good almost immediately in his first game and then on especially remembering the pasting of the Colts in his third game as starting QB - Brady you just know was born with this talent of playing in the pros - Cassel was fortunate enough to be given a shot to eventually start after being #2 so long.

IMO Cassel is an average joe and will remain an average joe who just needs to not fu(k up and let the players around him make him look good,thats all.

Cassel is more of a Tavaris Jackson or maybe a Jon Kitna type if you want to compare him as a starting QB this year,those 2 guys are guys with limited ability and needs a surrounding cast to win since you cannot put the ball in their hands in critical times to trust them to carry the team.

If this team does succeed this year it will be because the team played around the replacement QB and just avoided putting Cassel into a position of having to win games practically on his own like Brady did so many times.

If Cassel is put into position of winning games like if the team is trailing by 14 points I see no real hope in those situations,This team this year if they are behind on the scoreboard in order to win games must at least stay close for 3quarters to have a shot - There will be no major comebacks if the team trails by large margins any time this year.

This is my opinion and like I had said before if this team starts losing, the lovefest for Cassel will drop quicker than an anchor off the roof of the Sears Tower and the demand for an available JAG QB will be all over the forum.

If you expect Cassel to carry the load like Brady did in his first season, I can assure you the team is home for the playoffs - Cassel is not ready or talented enough at this point to do what Tom did back then

Dreaming is free though and more power to your 'positive' approach to this tragic situation.

I have to figure out how to get my computer to stop writing all that stuff between the lines that isnt what I am saying.
WOW.
I draw a similarity to the development of Brady, and the preparedness he showed as a 2nd year pro, and surmise that Cassel may show more preparedness than expected because he was brought up and in the same way, and you read THAT?

I dont have that read between the line function, but I did just read that you have DECLARED and GUARANTEED what WILL AND WILL NOT HAPPEN.
You have decided how Cassel is going to play before he plays. You have decided what he will do in certain situations that you have never seen him in.

Amazingly, you have decided what his leadership skills are, and I might be going out on a limb here, but I don't believe you know him personally, or have seen him interact with the other players have you?

I just find it hysterical that you attack my post implying that there may be some similarities between 2 guys who's pre-starting NFL careers have a strong resemblance, and then you respond by KNOWING you have the answer to everything that is going to happen.

Please reread your post, and tell me how it isnt the most arrogant know-it-all post on this board in months. You have already concluded everything that is going to happen.

Let me ask you this: From where do you draw your expert knowledge and assessment of Matt Cassel? It would seem that your opinion is much more negative than BBs, so what evidence are you using that either BB doesnt have, or you are better at interpretting? Is there any possibility that BB has more knowledge about or experience with this player than you?

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

People are a bit tooo negative in this thread.

Sure I was one of them in the preseason.

But there is one thing Cassel did for us on Sunday and it was give us hope.

At this time he knows the system of any QB out there and I'm jumpin gon this train with him. He'll have growing pains but this is week 2 so he already has more time to learn than Brady did when he took over. He will probably not be Brady, but who will? and we don't need him to be like Brady. We need him to help win.

 

[Ring 6]

Matt Cassel has to be Matt Cassel.If he becomes a good game manager and does not do things that hurt the team he will be OK and the team will be OK. He is not and never be Tom Brady.

There is enough talent on the team to be a playoff team as long as the guy handling the ball does not lose games for them.


How many QB's in the history of the game are as good as Tom Brady? Answer: Some but not many.

No one is saying he is Tom Brady.
It would be blind to ignore some similarities, such as BBs confidence in both. (ie he was right about Brady, if he is that smart it bodes well for Cassel) the fact that both were trained in the same system, the same way, by the same people for the most part.

Brady was far, far more prepared to play when the time came than anyone expected.
If Cassel is also, we will have a pleasant surprise. We don't need Brady Jr, but if we have the pieces of Brady that were "Put there by the Patriots" we may have an effective QB this year.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

There is enough talent on the team to be a playoff team as long as the guy handling the ball does not lose games for them.

This is true and why I think the team will make the playoffs at 10-6. However, once there, I strongly suspect there will be at least one game where "not losing" the game won't be enough; Cassel will be called upon to actually win the game. Trying to win 3 (probably 4 this year) straight post-season games in a row against teams with 10+ wins will require more than just conservative game management.

Matt Cassel will have to carry the team to victory in at least one post-season game if the Pats want to win SB43.

Regards,
Chris

 

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

At the same time this is a kid whose gotten up every day to go to meetings and practices with Tom Brady and Bill Belichick, surely that has to count for something. I mean obviously he's not the next Brady but hopefully he's atleast good enough to be the next Earl Morall

 

[Ring 6]

This is true and why I think the team will make the playoffs at 10-6. However, once there, I strongly suspect there will be at least one game where "not losing" the game won't be enough; Cassel will be called upon to actually win the game. Trying to win 3 (probably 4 this year) straight post-season games in a row against teams with 10+ wins will require more than just conservative game management.

Matt Cassel will have to carry the team to victory in at least one post-season game if the Pats want to win SB43.

Regards,
Chris

Are you saying there is zero chance of Matt Cassel having a day where he can do that?

 

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

But at the same time, Brady was also a two year starter at Michigan in one of the toughest conferences in college football, and went to a bowl game and won. Cassell held a clipboard and started one game as a tight end. Thats alot of disparity in experience.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

Are you saying there is zero chance of Matt Cassel having a day where he can do that?

Not at all. I'm saying that if there are fans that think the Pats can win SB43 solely by "protecting" Cassel with a good running game and defense, they are kidding themselves. QBs will have to come up huge at least once in a 4-game stretch against top-notch teams where one loss ends your season. Cassell will have to have such a game when needed.

Regards,
Chris

 

[Cannon Arm]

No one is saying they are the same guy. No one is saying Cassel will be a Hall of Famer.

I am saying BB DEVELOPED a QB once, and Cassel seems to have gone through the same progressions. Why is it impossible to believe that Bradys success in 2001 had a lot to do with the way he was coached in 2000 and 2001, and that Cassel waqs coached the same way?

I would just be comforted if he'd been good enough to beat out Matt Leinart, who passed him on the depth chart, for the starting gig at USC, after watching the flop of a career Leinart is having so far. Pete Carroll said they both looked pretty mediocre in 2002 before the season, but Cassel was the mediocre-est... I have seen a ton of crappy QBs in the NFL. It's a very hard job. It would be miraculous, given his resume, if Cassel didn't totally suck this season like most of the other guys who have tried and failed to do what he's trying to do-- lead a team to the Super Bowl (or even just be competent).

 

[alvinnf]

According to Brady, it was BELICHICK that taught him in 2001

I don't know about teaching, but I sure think Cassel could benefit from the way Charlie calls a game.

 

[emoney_33]

We have to stop comparing Cassel to Brady and the situation in 2001

Do you guys understand that QBs as dominant as Brady and P. Manning in today's league are so rare that they really only come around about once in about 10 years?

Just stop comparing what Brady did to what you think Cassel will duplicate

You do realize what Brady was in 2001 and what Brady has become are vastly different right? Cassel can easily be better than the 2001 Brady and never reach HOF status...

If you are lucky Cassel will manage his position just good enough to avoid messing up and let the other vets take over the productivity of the offense

IMO Cassel will NOT be the guy that puts this team on his back like Brady did in 2001 so please stop with the ridiculous comparisons - Tom became a leader of the team overnight,Cassel will likely mix in

Yea I forgot, our defense and coaching sucked that year, the team jumped on Brady's back as he slung away for 18 TDs and 12 INTs.... I love Brady as much as the next guy but no need to over dramatize what he was in 2001, a smart QB who managed the game and didn't make a ton of mistakes.

Brady is Brady and is one of those special players that are as rare as uncooked steak and was good almost immediately in his first game and then on especially remembering the pasting of the Colts in his third game as starting QB - Brady you just know was born with this talent of playing in the pros - Cassel was fortunate enough to be given a shot to eventually start after being #2 so long.

Brady had a lot of weaknesses and problems in his first year in the pros, he worked his ass off with a lot of great coaching and became the untouchable player that he is now. He wasn't just born the greatest QB ever.

IMO Cassel is an average joe and will remain an average joe who just needs to not fu(k up and let the players around him make him look good,thats all.

Cassel is more of a Tavaris Jackson or maybe a Jon Kitna type if you want to compare him as a starting QB this year,those 2 guys are guys with limited ability and needs a surrounding cast to win since you cannot put the ball in their hands in critical times to trust them to carry the team.

Your opinion on the matter is pretty useless. None of us have any real idea of how good or bad Cassel will do in the NFL as a starter, but we do know that BB and the coaching staff have a lot of confidence in him. You can't point to very many cases, if any, where BB was wrong about a player that he coached for more than 2-3 years.

Who stayed on the roster for 4 years but was terrible? Who was let go and proved they were worth the money they got or played better than what they did as Patriots?

If this team does succeed this year it will be because the team played around the replacement QB and just avoided putting Cassel into a position of having to win games practically on his own like Brady did so many times.

Brady is arguably the greatest QB to ever play but he is still 1/11 on offense and cannot possibly have been close to winning any games "on his own". The defense makes stops, special teams makes plays, offensive players make blocks, catches, runs etc...

This is going to be the hardest part for fans of the patriots to do. DON"T over dramatize Brady's greatness and effect on the team while we watch Cassel go through his struggles and growth this season, while unfairly bashing him for not being perfect.

If Cassel is put into position of winning games like if the team is trailing by 14 points I see no real hope in those situations,This team this year if they are behind on the scoreboard in order to win games must at least stay close for 3quarters to have a shot - There will be no major comebacks if the team trails by large margins any time this year.

This is my opinion and like I had said before if this team starts losing, the lovefest for Cassel will drop quicker than an anchor off the roof of the Sears Tower and the demand for an available JAG QB will be all over the forum.

Most are going to be overly critical of Cassel because of how great Brady is and how we all will naturally miss him. He will struggle at times, and we will lose some games, but hopefully people will be reasonable and not expect perfection.

If you expect Cassel to carry the load like Brady did in his first season, I can assure you the team is home for the playoffs - Cassel is not ready or talented enough at this point to do what Tom did back then

Dreaming is free though and more power to your 'positive' approach to this tragic situation.

5-5 after 10 games in 2001 and Brady's arm wasn't exactly a rocket. There were many reasons for the 2001 success, Brady included, but he did not CARRY that team in any way, shape or form. Seriously, go back and re-watch the entire 2001 season. Brady wasn't a HOF QB in 2001, and didn't play like one in 2001. Like all greats, he worked his ass off and improved over the years into the HOF QB he is today.


This mindset of turning Brady into a mythical Godlike creature who never made a mistake a day in his life, the impossible expectations people have and the ridiculous notion that the "grass is always greener on the other side" is what will make reading this board all year extremely irritating, much moreso than other years.

 

[TrueBeliever]

I will say this - I didn't trust Brady for most of SB 36. He couldn't throw the long ball as well as Bledsoe and I seriously thought that might cost us the game.

But Brady came along and by 2003 was one of the best in the league, period.

I don't think Cassell will ever be Brady, but if BB has kept him around he must see something the rest of us don't.

Looking back, I also have to wonder - did even BB guess how good Brady would be? If so, why didn't he pull Bledsoe? (Course Bob Kraft might have frowned on that, even with the "hands off" approach he had taken by that point.)

 

[stcjones]

Bill Belichick drafted a 6th round QB his first year here. He plugged Tom Brady into his system, and he adapted to it. Brady was so impressive to the coach that the first opportunity he got (in addition to moving up the depth chart) the coach put him on the field with no qualms.
The rest is history.

How does Matt Cassel not exactly fit that same dynamic? Cassel was #2 by his 2nd year, and is the started as soon as the opportunity came up.

Why can it not be that part of Brady becoming Brady was the coaching, that Cassel has more of.
Why can it not be that BB sees the same traits in both players?

Why is everyone (ok not everyone) assuming the 'unknown' (That is, what we havent seen of Cassels play) is a bad thing and not a good thing?

Anyone really believe BB would have put Cassel in this position over a 4 year run if he didnt believe he will succeed?

Ummm....this is the simplest question to answer yet........

Because......Matt Cassel is NOT Tom Brady.......and Cassel doesn't even have one millimeter the football brain or innate skills that Brady...or any of the elite QB's in the history of the game....have/had......If Cassel is to succeed it will be dink and dunk passing...and ..ALOT of the running game(which, if our OL continues to run block like they have in the past....good luck)....Basically will be like Doug Flutie in a Pats uniform.....hand it off....or run for your life...

 

[emoney_33]

I will say this - I didn't trust Brady for most of SB 36. He couldn't throw the long ball as well as Bledsoe and I seriously thought that might cost us the game.

But Brady came along and by 2003 was one of the best in the league, period.

I don't think Cassell will ever be Brady, but if BB has kept him around he must see something the rest of us don't.

Looking back, I also have to wonder - did even BB guess how good Brady would be? If so, why didn't he pull Bledsoe? (Course Bob Kraft might have frowned on that, even with the "hands off" approach he had taken by that point.)

It's impossible to KNOW the future, and I highly doubt they WANTED to start Brady in 2001. I think they wanted to give him more time to learn because the 2001 Brady was not as good as he is today. He worked his ass off over the years and had great coaching to become what he is today (along with the intangibles he possesses).

 

[stcjones]

You could, of course, consider that Tom Brady was a pure stroke of luck and an absolute steal at that point in the draft. Don't get me wrong. I share your optimism of the season, but the chances of Cassel becoming the next Brady are 87435657646467654324313676543213213 to 1

Holy sh*t.....Now this is someone who knows their math!!! I would have actually thought the odds would be higher.....but I will concede to someone with your aptitude for math......thanks man.....

 

[stcjones]

We have to stop comparing Cassel to Brady and the situation in 2001

Do you guys understand that QBs as dominant as Brady and P. Manning in today's league are so rare that they really only come around about once in about 10 years?

Just stop comparing what Brady did to what you think Cassel will duplicate

If you are lucky Cassel will manage his position just good enough to avoid messing up and let the other vets take over the productivity of the offense

IMO Cassel will NOT be the guy that puts this team on his back like Brady did in 2001 so please stop with the ridiculous comparisons - Tom became a leader of the team overnight,Cassel will likely mix in

Brady is Brady and is one of those special players that are as rare as uncooked steak and was good almost immediately in his first game and then on especially remembering the pasting of the Colts in his third game as starting QB - Brady you just know was born with this talent of playing in the pros - Cassel was fortunate enough to be given a shot to eventually start after being #2 so long.

IMO Cassel is an average joe and will remain an average joe who just needs to not fu(k up and let the players around him make him look good,thats all.

Cassel is more of a Tavaris Jackson or maybe a Jon Kitna type if you want to compare him as a starting QB this year,those 2 guys are guys with limited ability and needs a surrounding cast to win since you cannot put the ball in their hands in critical times to trust them to carry the team.

If this team does succeed this year it will be because the team played around the replacement QB and just avoided putting Cassel into a position of having to win games practically on his own like Brady did so many times.

If Cassel is put into position of winning games like if the team is trailing by 14 points I see no real hope in those situations,This team this year if they are behind on the scoreboard in order to win games must at least stay close for 3quarters to have a shot - There will be no major comebacks if the team trails by large margins any time this year.

This is my opinion and like I had said before if this team starts losing, the lovefest for Cassel will drop quicker than an anchor off the roof of the Sears Tower and the demand for an available JAG QB will be all over the forum.

If you expect Cassel to carry the load like Brady did in his first season, I can assure you the team is home for the playoffs - Cassel is not ready or talented enough at this point to do what Tom did back then

Dreaming is free though and more power to your 'positive' approach to this tragic situation.

great freakin post man......Dead ON and ....very REALISTIC points here....everyone should read this!!!!.......thnx

 

[TrueBeliever]

It's impossible to KNOW the future, and I highly doubt they WANTED to start Brady in 2001. I think they wanted to give him more time to learn because the 2001 Brady was not as good as he is today. He worked his ass off over the years and had great coaching to become what he is today (along with the intangibles he possesses).

That's a good point, and I feel like a real dunce now.

What are we NFL fans always saying is the worst thing you can do to a promising young QB? Have him start for a bad team his rookie year. Sure, Peyton Manning survived it, but for every one of him there's a dozen Jim Plunketts.

 

[BradyManny]

Bill Belichick drafted a 6th round QB his first year here. He plugged Tom Brady into his system, and he adapted to it. Brady was so impressive to the coach that the first opportunity he got (in addition to moving up the depth chart) the coach put him on the field with no qualms.
The rest is history.

How does Matt Cassel not exactly fit that same dynamic? Cassel was #2 by his 2nd year, and is the started as soon as the opportunity came up.

Why can it not be that part of Brady becoming Brady was the coaching, that Cassel has more of.
Why can it not be that BB sees the same traits in both players?

Why is everyone (ok not everyone) assuming the 'unknown' (That is, what we havent seen of Cassels play) is a bad thing and not a good thing?

Anyone really believe BB would have put Cassel in this position over a 4 year run if he didnt believe he will succeed?

While I still think we have as good a chance as any team in the AFC to represent in the Super Bowl, I think this is a bit of an insult to Brady - inadvertently, of course. If you listen to Belichick and Weis and what they've said about Brady, then you know that his skills were not a product of a system. Weis and Belichick have both - directly or indirectly - have just about said he is one of the best players ever to play football.

If we're expecting that of Matt Cassel, we will be disappointed.

But, if we expect Matt Cassel to be good enough to help an already talented team have a successful season, that's more like it.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

You could, of course, consider that Tom Brady was a pure stroke of luck and an absolute steal at that point in the draft. Don't get me wrong. I share your optimism of the season, but the chances of Cassel becoming the next Brady are 87435657646467654324313676543213213 to 1

Never tell me the odds.
[/Han Solo]

Regards,
Chris

 

[emoney_33]

While I still think we have as good a chance as any team in the AFC to represent in the Super Bowl, I think this is a bit of an insult to Brady - inadvertently, of course. If you listen to Belichick and Weis and what they've said about Brady, then you know that his skills were not a product of a system. Weis and Belichick have both - directly or indirectly - have just about said he is one of the best players ever to play football.

If we're expecting that of Matt Cassel, we will be disappointed.

But, if we expect Matt Cassel to be good enough to help an already talented team have a successful season, that's more like it.

I remember reading a story about Brady reading his file in 2000 or 2001. Reading things like "too slow", "holds on to the ball too long", "doesn't see the field well" and getting even more motivated to work his ass off. You know Weis and BB will say good things about EVERYONE ALWAYS, that doesn't mean Brady was born with all these natural HOF QB skills.

They saw the things that you can't teach in Tom Brady, that competitive fire, willingness to learn, determination. focus, dedication, intelligence etc... But Tom Brady was not a HOF QB out of college. He'll tell you himself that he busted his ass off (and still does) to become what he has become.