Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

[DisgruntledTunaFan]

Re: OT: Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

The NFLTA discussion was full of crap tonight - they've been pretty slimey during this episode overall - but they did make sense when they noted this move meant Jerry Angelo and Lovie Smith were under pressure to win now.

Kyle Orton is 21-12 as a starting QB. Jay Cutler is 17-20. Mike Mayock, who has been Cutler's #1 cheerleader since before he was drafted, was insisting the Broncos have to pool those two 1st round picks and go get Mark Sanchez. I'm looking at Orton's won/loss record and thinking Denver would be smart to focus on rebuilding the Defense and Special Teams and let Josh work with the two servicable QBs on roster.

In that 2005 season in particular(Orton's rookie year), the Bears were winning alot of games with him under center, but it was IN SPITE of him(i.e. their defense and ST were doing all the dirty work).

But nonetheless - records are what they ARE - they were riding a 9 game win streak at one point in the season(before losing to Pittsburgh, who, of course, started their late run with that very game). And even though Orton didn't do alot, he nonetheless was managing the game very, very well. His teammates seemed to have alot of confidence in him too.

Lovie made a big mistake at the end by putting in Rex Grossman when he missed a good near 2 seasons.

Anyhow - Orton was actually pretty good last year. I thought his decision making improved tremendously.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: OT: Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

In that 2005 season in particular(Orton's rookie year), the Bears were winning alot of games with him under center, but it was IN SPITE of him(i.e. their defense and ST were doing all the dirty work).

But nonetheless - records are what they ARE - they were riding a 9 game win streak at one point in the season(before losing to Pittsburgh, who, of course, started their late run with that very game). And even though Orton didn't do alot, he nonetheless was managing the game very, very well. His teammates seemed to have alot of confidence in him too.

Lovie made a big mistake at the end by putting in Rex Grossman when he missed a good near 2 seasons.

Anyhow - Orton was actually pretty good last year. I thought his decision making improved tremendously.

Orton didn't have a lot of weapons as a rookie, he'll have a better set in Denver, not to mention better coaching.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Re: OT: Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

The NFLTA discussion was full of crap tonight - they've been pretty slimey during this episode overall - but they did make sense when they noted this move meant Jerry Angelo and Lovie Smith were under pressure to win now.

Kyle Orton is 21-12 as a starting QB. Jay Cutler is 17-20. Mike Mayock, who has been Cutler's #1 cheerleader since before he was drafted, was insisting the Broncos have to pool those two 1st round picks and go get Mark Sanchez. I'm looking at Orton's won/loss record and thinking Denver would be smart to focus on rebuilding the Defense and Special Teams and let Josh work with the two servicable QBs on roster.

yep. This move does not sound like a typical Angelo move. I didnt see Mayock tonight, but he said that? Why? Denver isnt Minn who is qb away from a SB. This a good draft, and Denver has the picks now to fix some of their MANY holes. I think Denver did well in this. Now they just have to make those picks count.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: OT: Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

yep. This move does not sound like a typical Angelo move. I didnt see Mayock tonight, but he said that? Why? Denver isnt Minn who is qb away from a SB. This a good draft, and Denver has the picks now to fix some of their MANY holes. I think Denver did well in this. Now they just have to make those picks count.

Mayock is the draft guru credited with identifying Cutler as a first round talent, he's been pimping Cutler ever since. He's been carrying on like his own love child was stripped of his inheritance to the throne of Denver after DNA tests confirmed he was the kid switched at birth for the real Prince of Denver. Normally he's pretty objective, but I think he's just got too much invested in Cutler after all the fights he got in defending him as the best QB in that draft class.

As long as Denver doesn't buy into the myth that you have to spend through the nose to draft your Franchise QB, they will be in a good position to really help themselves. If I were Josh, I'd be looking at Hunter Cantwell of Louisville and Stephen McGee of Texas A&M in the third round range.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: OT: Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

The Cutler trade just smacks of Herschel Walker. If Mcdaniel uses the picks he got in return wisely, he could reap quite a bounty that could really improve that Broncos team. And I hate the Broncos so I hate admitting that.

 

[Pats726]

Re: OT: Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

The Cutler trade just smacks of Herschel Walker. If Mcdaniel uses the picks he got in return wisely, he could reap quite a bounty that could really improve that Broncos team. And I hate the Broncos so I hate admitting that.

I tend to agree,,,Cutler has showned that while he may have a Pro Bowl arm and is that good a QB..his character is that of a two year old..IN time a QB like that will be exposed when the going gets tough. I think Josh understood that and really..finally decided with management it was time to see him leave. It was Cutler who brought up being traded first..way before anything to do with Cassel was on teh table..for he mentioned that after his OC was gone..before Josh was around.
As of this moment..it is Denver 10 Chicago 1...but what the Broncos do with the picks will say it all. If Orton can be developed and become a player, the deal will be so much better...The Vears only get the better of the deal if Cutler leads them to a NFC SUper Bowl appearance..and I do not see that happening. IF they had all the parts BUT a QB..it would make sense...but they have few receivers and a porous line. With no high draft picks..that will not be solved. Yes, it does give Chicago a Qb that they have not had in decades, but it takes MORE THAN A QB to win a Super Bowl and be competitive.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Re: OT: Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

You are correct on Mayock. I am beginning to think that whole crew is either stupid, can't observe, hate BB or all of the above.

Mayock names "franchise" QB's who have won Super Bowls then claims a 17-20 QB is franchise? If "franchise" means Pro Bowl, then trade for Favre.

Dukes claims Cassel's 11-5 body of work is "no comparison" to Cutler's 17-20.

Mayock can't grasp how a 32 year old QB could let this happen. Hello?! he might want to review BB with Kosar and BB with Bledsoe. How can you not grasp.

Eisen can't grasp how anyone can't be impressed with Cutler's passing stats- which were achieved without a running game. Richie doesn't seem to connect that those "impressive" stats are the result of zero running game.

In the ultimate display of hubris, these guys can't comprehend that a guy who coached Tom Brady MIGHT be as qualified to evaluate QB talent for HIS system.

It has to come back to hatred for BB.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: OT: Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

The media's reaction to this is predictably stupid, but that is Nfl network and espn for you. The same idiots who claim the Redskins "win" every offseason then hide in a gutter only to come out next spring. The Bears made a desperate move and got swindled. Cutler's undeserving pro bowl selection and undisputed "franchise" qb title dwarfed his
mediocre success in a pass happy system with lots
of weapons. Suddenly you would think he is classes with Brady or Manning because he and Brett Favre stolen tickets to Honolulu last year. But alas he is a STAR and therefore the Bears are declared the winners.

I expect a huge dissapointment from Nuke Laloosh, with a million dollar arm and a ten cent brain.

Yeah, if you listen to ESPN radio this morning, they constantly state in the news update that Cutler threw for over 300 yards in eight games last season. What they failed to mention was that they were 4-4 in those games, Cutler threw for one or less TDs in 3 of the eight games (no TDs once), He had 11 INTs in those eight games, the Broncos failed to get even 20 points in two of those games, and the Broncos lost by double digits in three of those games. Those eight games don't look all that impressive when you dig deeper.

Even Mike and Mike disputed Mel Kiper today when Kiper said that Cutler was overrated. Golic responded by saying the numbers don't lie. Sometimes they do especially when you get so caught up with 4,526 yards number that you don't look beyond it and don't look at a lot of the other numbers that make that yards number number look deceptive.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: OT: Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

Eisen can't grasp how anyone can't be impressed with Cutler's passing stats- which were achieved without a running game. Richie doesn't seem to connect that those "impressive" stats are the result of zero running game.

First, Eisen should look at Cutler's numbers deeper. I just showed how his numbers aren't as impressive as people make them out to be. People are just caught up in the yards and nothing else. That's why people say the Broncos were the second best offense in the league last year eventhough they were an unimpressive 16th in scoring. You can't be the second best offense in the league when 15 other teams score more points than you.

Second, this "Denver had no running game" argument is a falicy. The Broncos were 12th in rushing yards, 2nd in yards per carry, and 14th in rushing TDs. They do fall short in attempts where they were 28th. They didn't have no rushing game. They just had individual games where the running game broke down. Otherwise, they had an average running game.

Dukes claims Cassel's 11-5 body of work is "no comparison" to Cutler's 17-20.

I agree. Cassel was more impressive in his short body of work. Granted he may not continue on that moving to KC, but looking at both QB's starting careers in a vaccuum I would say Cassel had the better career if you don't discount that he had 15 starts vs. 37 for Cutler.

Mayock names "franchise" QB's who have won Super Bowls then claims a 17-20 QB is franchise? If "franchise" means Pro Bowl, then trade for Favre.

I don't think a franchise QB neccessarily needs to be a Super Bowl QB, but has to be a guy you can count on to win games when everything else fails and get your team into the playoffs. Obviously Brady and Manning can do that. Drew Brees has done that. Carson Palmer before his injuries have done that. Even Philip Rivers has done that. Cutler hasn't.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: OT: Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

The NFLTA discussion was full of crap tonight - they've been pretty slimey during this episode overall - but they did make sense when they noted this move meant Jerry Angelo and Lovie Smith were under pressure to win now.

Kyle Orton is 21-12 as a starting QB. Jay Cutler is 17-20. Mike Mayock, who has been Cutler's #1 cheerleader since before he was drafted, was insisting the Broncos have to pool those two 1st round picks and go get Mark Sanchez. I'm looking at Orton's won/loss record and thinking Denver would be smart to focus on rebuilding the Defense and Special Teams and let Josh work with the two servicable QBs on roster.

It's a sad commentary on a network struggling to stay alive as cable companies continue to squeeze they out of reaching their core demographic that the ONLY guy on staff who made any sense in all this was Deon Sanders... His "who are you Cutler" take from the get go was spot on. That Schlereth and Dilfer on ESPN had a far more rational discussion on how this trade might actually pan out long and short term and why...

Shame on NFLN, where increasingly lately, besides Schefter, they all seem to spend more time trying not to piss each other off by not being on the same page than actually rationally analyzing anything. Eisen looks almost scared of getting his lunch handed to him as he tries to frame his leading questions to a crew of increasingly opinionated egos intent on out shouting each other...

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Re: OT: Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

Rob

Completely agree with your analysis. I actually like Mayock alot. However, he doesn't seem to realize his definition of a "franchise QB" means Cutler is definately not a franchise QB.

He also stated that he thought the Broncos were on the Indy blueprint. Why would new Coach McDaniels follow that?

 

[PatsChamp88]

Re: OT: Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

We have seen Cutlers true colors now imagine him without any WRs hes going to be crying all season, McD got the best of this by far 2 1sts and also a younger guy who has managed to pull out a winning record while playing for the Bears.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: OT: Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

Well - if Cutler whined about one of the best offensive systems in Shanahan's, and then dissaproved of McDaniels', who comes from one of the most successful ones in the league, then how is he going to like RON TURNER's(i.e. the WORST playcaller in the NFL) system?

With that being said - if Orton is not the answer, then so be it. However - Lovie's system requires a GAME MANAGER at QB b/c he plays Dungy ball. And to boot - they could have used an MLB/FS in the 1st round, as Urlacher is getting to be a shell of his former self, and Mike Brown is all but done.

Obviously - Denver got the better deal. Orton may not be a great QB, but he's a smart one that manages the game well, which is what is required in McDaniels' system. With those 2 #1's, they can nab an RB and possibly a nice defensive player.

Mayock did mention last night that Turner (Norv's brother btw) as a college HC turned down a player who desperately wanted to play for Illinois...Jay Cutler.

Absent an extension Angelo says has not been discussed (by the notoriously tight Bears) this could be a...git yo' opcorn:... ready kind of matchup for the hypersensitive QB who never suffered a slight he could get over, now playing in a bluecollar city on a hardnosed team where real men don't cry...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: OT: Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

From PFT:

Cutler, Ron Turner Have Rocky History
Posted by Aaron Wilson on April 3, 2009, 12:47 p.m.
Newly-acquired Chicago Bears quarterback Jay Cutler is known for holding a grudge, and he still seems to be holding one against Bears offensive coordinator Ron Turner stemming from an old recruiting dispute, according to Brad Biggs of the Chicago Sun-Times.

Citing people close to Cutler and a Denver Post column, some fences may need to be mended between Cutler and Turner now that they’re going to work together.

As a high school senior in southern Indiana, Cutler accepted a scholarship to Illinois where Turner was the head coach at the time. Cutler committed without visiting campus, though, and when he arrived for an official visit Turner reportedly pulled the offer.

“When Jay went for his official visit, the coach told him they were rescinding the offer because they had some hot-shot quarterback from California,” Heritage Hills athletic director Jay Burch told Denver Post columnist Woody Paige. ”

Illinois wound up signing Mike Dlugolecki, who wound up transferring to San Diego State. And Cutler had turned down offers from Purdue, Duke and Maryland to go to Illinois before winding up at Vanderbilt.

“It’s not right,” Jake Cutler, Cutler’s father, told ESPN.com. “I still have a bitter taste in my mouth.”

In the past, Turner has denied that Illinois rescinded the scholarship offer because Cutler was never made an offer.

Obviously, they’ll need to rehearse their lines a bit before the press conference today."

opcorn:

 

[Rob0729]

Re: OT: Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

Rob

Completely agree with your analysis. I actually like Mayock alot. However, he doesn't seem to realize his definition of a "franchise QB" means Cutler is definately not a franchise QB.

He also stated that he thought the Broncos were on the Indy blueprint. Why would new Coach McDaniels follow that?

Why wouldn't McDaniels follow the Colts' blueprint? Because McDaniels comes from the Patriots school of building a team and the results are better with that blueprint. Besides, Cutler on his best day isn't half the QB Peyton Manning is on his worst.

I like Mayock too. He had Mayo over Gholston last year and praised the Patriots for taking him where they did where most of the analysts claimed the Pats were just being desperate because their actual target, Keith Rivers, was drafted the spot before them. Granted these morons didn't realize that Rivers was too small for the Pats' system.

I also loved last year when he and Jamie Dukes went at it over Gholston when Mayock said the guy doesn't have what it takes to make it in the NFL as an elite player and Dukes claimed Gholston was a future HOFer and his inconsistency and him taking plays off in college was because he was coached wrong at Ohio State and that Mangini would coach him up. I wish I have video of that now.

All that said. Many analysts have their binkies and anti-binkies. I just know not to trust Mayock on his analys of Cutler.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Re: OT: Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

Rob

Completely agree. Maybe Mayock has too much emotion invested in Cutler or the commentary of NFLN now has to be colorfully elevated. I don't know.

However, a really smart guy like Mayock should be able to figure out an old "Indy" blueprint went out the door when Shanny got fired.

How could anyone not notice.

Hey Rob, did you write the analysis over at coldhardfootballfacts?

 

[Sivy]

Re: OT: Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

The Bears needed a franchise QB, which they got...and Denver got two #1s and a 3rd, so they did well. I say it is a wash.

what has cutler actuallly done? Orton has a better win loss record? Really, what has Cry Baby cutler done except cry?

 

[APatrioticVirginian]

Re: OT: Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

The running theme on esbs is that Cutler has great stats. In 3 years TD-INT 54-37
Passing yards 9,024
QB Rating 87.1

I just dont see it, maybe its all the winning or his great attitude.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Re: OT: Who got the best of the Cutler trade?

The running theme on esbs is that Cutler has great stats. In 3 years TD-INT 54-37
Passing yards 9,024
QB Rating 87.1

I just dont see it, maybe its all the winning or his great attitude.

Well said. And, welcome to the Board a few weeks late. But, I thought all Virginians were, by heritage, Patriotic.