What's wrong with the Chiefs?

[mgcolby]

is Thuney a mid tier free agent? Was Brown?

Imo they arent... those guys are supposed to be quality starters... and they replaced the contracts of the guys they replaced...

But losing a guy like sammy watkins hurts them because of how they run their offense... its predicated on match ups... and are now without the excess that made covering all the guys hard for a backfield... now defenses flood the backfield they only have to really worry about the abuser and gronk wannabe...

that large deal isnt the only reason ... but it plays a part of it...

And to your point. Outside of Hill and Kelce no one is scared of their wide receivers. Hardman (sp) is a burner but Pringle? If either Kelce or Hill get hurt for any length of time that offense will sputter.

 

[Triumph]

Exactly... It goes both ways... The chiefs paid mahomes big money but cant have a good defense but somehow buffalo paid josh allen and does????

Because the Chiefs are paying fat Frank Clark 18.5 million in salary this season. He is the highest paid guy on the team. The next highest overpaid guy is Mathieu at 14.5 million in salary.

 

[gobesmug]

Rarely has a team lost the Superbowl and gotten back the next year and won.

I believe Patriots were one of the only few to do it.

Rarely has a team won a Superbowl then won it again the following year.

Since the salary cap only the Broncos and Pats have done it. But the Broncos cheated the salary cap, so only the Pats have done it with the cap

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Because the Chiefs are paying fat Frank Clark 18.5 million in salary this season. He is the highest paid guy on the team. The next highest overpaid guy is Mathieu at 14.5 million in salary.

Their top six guys have cap hit of $148 million next year.. Tough to backfill w so little space..

 

[Pats2000]

Weren't the Chiefs supposed to win 7 super bowls?

Only 6 more to go

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

This is key and something that was highlighted last night. If you noticed the DE's stayed home and did not chase. Forcing Mahomes to stay in the pocket. Often times longer than his internal clock thought was ok, leading him to run around in circles within the perfectly formed pocket. He rushed throws a few times because if this too.

Yes. I don't know why teams blitz/overpursue so much against these types of QBs. In the Super Bowl, the Bucs made no secret (even before the game, discussing practice) that their goal was to be disciplined and not turning it into a game of tag which plays right into Mahomes hands. Suh said they practiced staying in front of him and taking away lanes, much like a soccer defender.

And yes as I said before the season their defense is below average. I just didn't realize that they were this bad. They outright suck.

They go from a bad defense to a putrid (perhaps league worst) defense without Mathieu or Jones. Jones was out last night. Such a risky strategy to pay through the nose for a few guys and have replacement level players everywhere else.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

You hear a lot about how Mahomes can make a throw that no one else can make. Well, Mahomes sure as **** couldn't make this throw. The difference is everyone would blame the offensive line as he would bail out to the side, then chuck it up for some improv route.

From the pundits/hightlights, no one ever talks about Brady's ridiculous passes because they're not razzle dazzle behind the back shovel pass crap.

Why Tom Brady’s 61-yard TD to Antonio Brown is one of his greatest throws

Tom Brady's 61-yard touchdown pass to Antonio Brown against the Dolphins was yet another example of his greatness.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Pats1971]

You hear a lot about how Mahomes can make a throw that no one else can make. Well, Mahomes sure as **** couldn't make this throw. The difference is everyone would blame the offensive line as he would bail out to the side, then chuck it up for some improv route.

From the pundits/hightlights, no one ever talks about Brady's ridiculous passes because they're not razzle dazzle behind the back shovel pass crap.

Why Tom Brady’s 61-yard TD to Antonio Brown is one of his greatest throws

Tom Brady's 61-yard touchdown pass to Antonio Brown against the Dolphins was yet another example of his greatness.

sports.yahoo.com

I have watched that throw about 50 times, and I still cannot believe he put that ball in that 1 foot space with a defender up his ass. Unreal. He didnt do it sidearm though so it doesnt count.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

Hi @MahomestoHill

thoughts?

Mahomes can't overcome a garbage D anymore. Most QB's can't.

I'll shred him for making some boneheaded picks since Baltimore.

But it's a function of him trying to be perfect. He knows that thrash defense won't help him out.

So the defense is the main issue. Will it turn around? Who knows.

Mahomes is still great. But sometimes you need your D to be functional.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

You hear a lot about how Mahomes can make a throw that no one else can make. Well, Mahomes sure as **** couldn't make this throw. The difference is everyone would blame the offensive line as he would bail out to the side, then chuck it up for some improv route.

From the pundits/hightlights, no one ever talks about Brady's ridiculous passes because they're not razzle dazzle behind the back shovel pass crap.

Why Tom Brady’s 61-yard TD to Antonio Brown is one of his greatest throws

Tom Brady's 61-yard touchdown pass to Antonio Brown against the Dolphins was yet another example of his greatness.

sports.yahoo.com

shannon tried to play it down on undisputed. I'm glad Skip always defends Brady. Brady made some great throws on point. It looks easy for some on television but he is the best in putting the ball right there where the receiver just can keep running.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

The Chiefs three first round picks during the Mahomes era (picks 28-32):

2019 trade a first & pay Frank Clark

Clark is more or less a JAG. He’s making $20+ million on top of sending a 1st round pick for him.

2020 draft Clyde Edwards-Helaire

Edwards-Helaire is a JAG. He is a backup RB in the NFL.

present trade for Orlando Brown

Brown is an above average LT. He will cost $20+ million a year as a FA.


Poor drafting & a top heavy roster are already hurting the Chiefs. Once Travis Kelce declines they are going to have problems on offense.

Creed Humphrey was a good pick in the second round. Seems like a long term starting Center. Sneed the CB as well.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

shannon tried to play it down on undisputed. I'm glad Skip always defends Brady. Brady made some great throws on point. It looks easy for some on television but he is the best in putting the ball right there where the receiver just can keep running.

Bayless worships Brady

Yet hates Bill, LeBron, and Aaron Rodgers.

He's been this way for years.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Bayless worships Brady

Yet hates Bill, LeBron, and Aaron Rodgers.

He's been this way for years.

I know but i like him because i think he is kind of funny. Sometimes is so ridiculous that it is funny again. It's good he has Brady's back because Shannon does not even the slightest

 

[Fixit]

Mahomes can't overcome a garbage D anymore. Most QB's can't.

I'll shred him for making some boneheaded picks since Baltimore.

But it's a function of him trying to be perfect. He knows that thrash defense won't help him out.

So the defense is the main issue. Will it turn around? Who knows.

Mahomes is still great. But sometimes you need your D to be functional.

He's playing exactly the same way that he always has, which is his problem. Good teams have figured out his playground ball, and he has no idea what to do to adjust. Refer to his quote about facing "defenses that no one has seen." If Mac Jones had said that, I'd be crapping my fan pants.

 

[Sicilian]

shannon tried to play it down on undisputed. I'm glad Skip always defends Brady. Brady made some great throws on point. It looks easy for some on television but he is the best in putting the ball right there where the receiver just can keep running.

It reminds me of hockey, when fans and pundits think a goalie isn't very good because he's "not facing any tough shots" or making really flashy glove saves. But 99% of goaltending is being fundamentally sound, square, and at the right angles, plus anticipating where the shots will be coming from (good defense in front of you helps too of course). It makes the saves look mundane, like the shooters are just throwing it into the goalie's chest, but there's methodology behind that. A lot of times flashy saves are because the goalie is scrambling out of position.

Martin Brodeur didn't make a ton of flashy saves, but he won a lot of rings. Dominick Hasek (who was also great in his own right), made ridiculous, sprawling, athletic saves, but never brought home the cup.

Brady is the same way. He has the arm talent, no doubt about it, but he uses it in very subtle ways because his timing, accuracy, and anticipation are so good. So they look like "easy" throws because you're only seeing the .2 seconds of difficulty while the ball is in the air and not the hours of preparation and knowledge it took to get to that point. Mahomes is more like Hasek: flashy, and also great, but he won't win as much because those "How did he DO that!?" plays just have too much variance over time.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Mahomes can't overcome a garbage D anymore. Most QB's can't.

I'll shred him for making some boneheaded picks since Baltimore.

But it's a function of him trying to be perfect. He knows that thrash defense won't help him out.

So the defense is the main issue. Will it turn around? Who knows.

Mahomes is still great. But sometimes you need your D to be functional.

Win/loss is a problem with the defense and that's the Chiefs clear problem.

However, Mahomes issues aren't function of him trying to be too perfect...that sounds like a Favre excuse...the guy feels like he NEEDS to win the game on every play, and you can't blame him! Hopefully he won't succumb to that type of hyped up garbage like Favre, late career Marino, etc.

His stats may still show a complete powerhosue, but anyone watching Mahomes can see he's developed some really habits in the pocket, and it's especially bad because of how much money they just invested to give him clean pockets. He's rarely throwing anything timed and disciplined anymore as soon as the matchup challenges become less like checkers and more like chess. He's bailing, drifting, and chucking like backyard football. In the big matchups, I'm seeing less and less of Andy Reid's well designed misdirection plays and short passes and a lot more chucking. I only see those interesting plays now when it comes to padding TD stats with underhand shovel passes.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

It reminds me of hockey, when fans and pundits think a goalie isn't very good because he's "not facing any tough shots" or making really flashy glove saves. But 99% of goaltending is being fundamentally sound, square, and at the right angles, plus anticipating where the shots will be coming from (good defense in front of you helps too of course). It makes the saves look mundane, like the shooters are just throwing it into the goalie's chest, but there's methodology behind that. A lot of times flashy saves are because the goalie is scrambling out of position.

Martin Brodeur didn't make a ton of flashy saves, but he won a lot of rings. Dominick Hasek (who was also great in his own right), made ridiculous, sprawling, athletic saves, but never brought home the cup.

Brady is the same way. He has the arm talent, no doubt about it, but he uses it in very subtle ways because his timing, accuracy, and anticipation are so good. So they look like "easy" throws because you're only seeing the .2 seconds of difficulty while the ball is in the air and not the hours of preparation and knowledge it took to get to that point. Mahomes is more like Hasek: flashy, and also great, but he won't win as much because those "How did he DO that!?" plays just have too much variance over time.

i appreciate your post but i have zero clue about hockey so i don't know brodeur or hasek sorry

 

[MahomestoKelce]

Win/loss is a problem with the defense and that's the Chiefs clear problem.

However, Mahomes issues aren't function of him trying to be too perfect...that sounds like a Favre excuse...the guy feels like he NEEDS to win the game on every play, and you can't blame him! Hopefully he won't succumb to that type of hyped up garbage like Favre, late career Marino, etc.

His stats may still show a complete powerhosue, but anyone watching Mahomes can see he's developed some really habits in the pocket, and it's especially bad because of how much money they just invested to give him clean pockets. He's rarely throwing anything timed and disciplined anymore as soon as the matchup challenges become less like checkers and more like chess. He's bailing, drifting, and chucking like backyard football. In the big matchups, I'm seeing less and less of Andy Reid's well designed misdirection plays and short passes and a lot more chucking. I only see those interesting plays now when it comes to padding TD stats with underhand shovel passes.

He's got faults.

But I'm willing to bet Mahomes figures this out and gets out of the "Slump".

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

The concept isn’t that difficult. Drafting in that position makes it challenging. So, why do you keep paying to increase offensive production when you just paid a guy $45M a year to make everyone else better? Already paying market for Hill and Kelce. They were still paying $15M for Watkins up into last year. Big contracts for Fisher and Schwartz. Sinking money into the o-line now when just having average, competent players is needed.

So you have Mahomes, Kelce, and Hill who alone, with mere competent supporting cast, should get you 30 ppg. Spend another $40M so you can average 33 ppg instead? Diminishing returns.

On defense, you have a bottom of the barrel unit where spending that money could have made a huge difference.

It’s the same thing everywhere except New England…get a superstar QB and then make sure you placate them at the cost of a more sensible strategy. The real savings on Brady wasn’t his own contracts…it was the cheap deals for skill players and somewhat o linemen. He made average guys better. They took the cost savings and invested into special teams, defense, and depth. Not such a complicated concept but many GMs/coaches afraid to say no to their franchise QB and face fan retaliation.

the other big thing aside from accepting the lower pay is the goat qb buying into that system and just being one of the guys for that long , no preferential treatment, no throwing tamptrums when higher rd picks are used on another qb, etc etc. We were incredibly lucky, and it’s something that will never happen again… even if another team somehow stumbles upon a qb/hc combination like that .

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

He's got faults.

But I'm willing to bet Mahomes figures this out and gets out of the "Slump".

He's a generational player...of course he will. It's not like this guy will be playing for the Saskatchewan Roughriders in three years. But take a look at Aaron Rodgers career, and especially at the advanced stats (not the passer rating.). Despite all his talents, due to stubbornness, long slumps, inability to adjust, too much freelancing, he has had a lot of years where he's been average. Look at his adjusted net yards/attempt (ANY/A) and how inconsistent it is. Huge fall in 2012 and 2015; from 2017-19, he's maybe even below average. He relies now on a ton of great support because of his habits, obsession with hero ball, scrambling, etc.



Now look at Mahomes ANY/A. It's not bad yet, where he's a middling QB like Rodgers, but it's ticking down, and this is with a great supporting cast around him, no injuries, etc. Due to the big stats, accolades, TD/INT ratio, passer rating, we tend to overlook things like this, but they correlate with yards/play factoring turnovers, INTs, and the team's overall ppg. He's almost a full yard down on yards/play this year from last year. That's a big deal.