PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

What went wrong: one cold hard fact


Status
Not open for further replies.
We don't have the run game to run the ball down by double digits, we don't have a guy that can break off 15-20 yds, we either run for 2-4 yds or pass short, we did the latter, our running game is the short pass and unfortunately the short pass didn't get YAC yesterday.

So you're saying Ridley can't break off 15-20 yards?
 
The cold hard fact is that in our last five losses, playoffs included, one piece of stat stands out pretty large. In each of those loss, our primary running back had 10 or less carries
There is a chicken/egg component to this also. In at least a few of those games we fell behind enough to take the run out of play.

I really, just really, don't understand why, with all the intelligence that there is on this team or running this team, they have this infatuation with going empty or with the draw.
I think its shaky logic to question the philosophy of the best offense in the league based on its least spectacular days. It works more than anyone else's so why would change be better?

I don't know whose brilliant idea it was to design the game plan with the idea of giving Faulk the majority of the snaps.
That was confusing to me too.

Don't get me wrong- I think highly of Faulk, but he is NOT a 3 down back. Even in his best season, he was and still is and always will be a 3rd down specialist. I have a feeling that whoever came up with this idea (be it BB, or BOB, or Brady's influence in the game design) it's also the same person who has this stubborn self-destructive desire to cling to the empty or draw formation.
Again empty backfield and draw plays have been very successful for us.

The Patriots are primarily a pass offense, and they are one of the best pass offense in the NFL, but they do NOT win without their run game. When we have won is when the number of run attempts is near to or equal to the number of pass attempts. That has been a very consistent fact.
I disagree. The final numbers may sometimes look like balance but that is typically after throwing to get a big lead and running to wind down the game.

Last night, of the four excellent rushers
We have 4 EXCELLENT rushers?

we had, one was inactive, two had ZERO attempts (Woodhead, Ridley) and one had only five carries (BJGE). That is downright terrible, and is the reason I stopped watching the game near the end of the 2nd quarter.
You stopped watching the game and are commenting on how it was coached? Really?

Some of our best offensive production comes from the play-action, and that comes out of the run game. So even if our run game is meager, or produces little results, it still provides threat in the form of the play action.

As it was- we were never serious about it last night- we did NOT game plan for running hard at the Steelers,
Would you expect us to gameplan to do what we havent done well vs them in the past and not do what we have killed them with?

because all the run plays that were called were basic plays with no advanced whams, kickouts, or 2nd level designs. Also if some of you want to blame BJGE, I would say, why then, didn't BOB swap in Ridley? The bottom line, again, was that we were never serious about running, and that is very aggravating considering the Steelers are #15 in run-stopping.
There is no question that the Steelers are a better defense vs the run than vs the pass.

That being said, let's look at the other issues that are brought:

MYTH: BB sucks at drafting.
FACT: He has drafted a pro-bowler every single year he has been here. That is as good as it gets.
It seems that you are not grabbing the pitchforks and torches that most fams feel are necessary after losing to one of if not the best teams in the conference (best last year, best record this year) on the road. Come on, we must crouch in shame and lynch every member of the organization for the embarassment they forced us fans to endure by the debacle of a road to loss to a great team.

MYTH: The defense sucks.
FACT: THE YPG (Yards Per Game) and PPG (Points per game) we are allowing is in fact going down. It has been going down steadily, so we are getting better steadily, not worse.
Agreed before yesterday. Yesterday and Buffalo were examples of a defense that was dominated by the other team and really couldn't stop them. The other 5 games were either good defense or defense impacted by playing safe with a big lead.

MYTH: The players suck
FACT: We are in a new system, the 4-3, not the 3-4 and there are huge philosophical and systematic differences, even in the secondary where you have one less linebacker. It does take some time to become comfortable, and the lack of an off-season doesn't help.

MYTH: The secondary sucks
FACT: We have had NO consistency back there, and I don't mean any individual player- I mean having four or five secondaries playing together consistently, developing chemistry, effective communication skills, and knowing how to play off each other. It is unfair to crucify Molden when he's simply been thrown into the fire. There simply has been too much shuffling back there for the DBs to be blamed.
They played like crap yesterday (and/or the Steelers played great but thats not an allowable thought today) but those things happen. Less here than on every other team, but still they happen.

The defense needs time to jell. There's no getting around that. That's not what I'm mad at. What I'm mad at are the things we can control, such as the game-plan design.
The level of defense we played yesterday will mean nothing in January. The quality of the players will. I think the point you are making, and that I agree with is that the quality of the players suggests time will lead to improvement.

There's just no getting around the fact that no matter how good our pass offense is, we just do NOT win without the run game, period.

As the immortal Bill Walsh said: "You can't get to the superbowl until you're capable of winning in more than one way."

We weren't beating the Steelers on the ground though. We have used the running game very successfully this year, I just don't think the Steelers are the team you ground and pound on.
 
2010 - We had a OK secondary, with improving younger players McCourty, Chung, and Arrington. We also felt we had some potential in Brown.

OUT: Wilhite, Butler, Meriweather, Sanders
IN: Molden, Adams, Barrett, Ihedigbo

Belichick is indeed inscrutable. How are these replacements supposed to help us in 2011 (or 2012 or 2013)?

I understand that we drafted a defensive back who was injured. But defensive backs cannot be counted on for great production in their first year.

If you are suggesting the 4 OUT and the 4 IN are essentially a wash, I agree.
 
When an RB is blown up in the backfield, it is very rarely his fault. It's always the result of a play breakdown or someone missing his assignment. It is near impossible to shake a tackle when you're barely accelerating fast enough to cutback.

That being said BJGE only had 5 carries, Ridley had 0, and Woodhead had 0.

So you're saying that all of this happened because BJGE got stopped for a loss on one attempt? Come on.

Does it matter whether it was poor blocking or poor running?
I know you love BJGE but where the breakdown was is not relevant, that there was a breakdown is.
 
So you're saying Ridley can't break off 15-20 yards?

Who knows, I don't think a game in Pittsburgh where they are playing lights out and have twice as much TOP as you is the time to find that out. It just wasn't the night to run the ball. In this situation you put the ball in your HOF QB's hands.
 
How about a 35 year old, coming off a year long knee injury spreading out wide at times and credited with 39 snaps while Ocho only had 11 snaps.
 
Does it matter whether it was poor blocking or poor running?
I know you love BJGE but where the breakdown was is not relevant, that there was a breakdown is.

Absolutely, because it still just doesn't change the fact: when we are one-dimensional, we lose, period.

But he just showed we were not one dimensional in the first half.
 
There is a chicken/egg component to this also. In at least a few of those games we fell behind enough to take the run out of play.

Again as I've pointed out, we only fell far behind enough to justify abandoning the run game, once, and that was Cleveland. In the other games, our margin of loss was 8 points.




Again empty backfield and draw plays have been very successful for us.

Not as successful as our play-actions have been. Our play actions have been extremely devastating on offense (e.g., the Welker 90 yard play on Revis). You can't have play-action without a true run threat.



We have 4 EXCELLENT rushers?

You don't agree with that?


Would you expect us to gameplan to do what we havent done well vs them in the past and not do what we have killed them with?

Last year, when the Steelers were #1 on run D, we ran on them for over 100 yards. Why would we change that?


There is no question that the Steelers are a better defense vs the run than vs the pass.

How so? They rank #1 in pass D this year and #15 in run D.

We weren't beating the Steelers on the ground though. We have used the running game very successfully this year, I just don't think the Steelers are the team you ground and pound on.

If they are ranking #15, then yes. #15 is middle of the pack.
 
Before the final 2-minute drive of the first half, the Pats ran 14 plays (not counting three nullified by penalties...two of which gave the Pats first downs): 6 runs, 8 passes. I'm sorry if I'm not seeing the one-dimensional label.
Chris

How many of those 6 runs were draw plays?
 
Does it matter whether it was poor blocking or poor running?
I know you love BJGE but where the breakdown was is not relevant, that there was a breakdown is.

I'll readily admit I am the worse BJGE homer you will ever find on this board.

That being said, I would say that if an RB is tackled for a loss in the backfield, it would be difficult to find a reason to blame him because he'd barely have had time to accelerate to the point where he could cutback?
 
Again as I've pointed out, we only fell far behind enough to justify abandoning the run game, once, and that was Cleveland. In the other games, our margin of loss was 8 points.

We were being 13 at one point yesterday. As was pointed out we were balanced right up to 2 minutes left in the first half.






Not as successful as our play-actions have been. Our play actions have been extremely devastating on offense (e.g., the Welker 90 yard play on Revis). You can't have play-action without a true run threat.
And getting into 2nd and 3rd and long by running poorly doesnt help the offense.
In each of the last 3 games, the commentators have passed on comments from the defensive coaches of the other teams that they hope we run it all day long. Do you really think a team that is begging us to run is going to be susceptible to play action? The playaction success you are giving examples of is passing success, and the fact that some of it is playaction is more coincidental that causal.





You don't agree with that?
Of course not. We have no EXCELLENT rushers. We have a solid RB in BJGE, we have a good draw/screen RB in Woodhead. We have a rookie who has shown some flashes, and another who has not yet really played in the NFL.




Last year, when the Steelers were #1 on run D, we ran on them for over 100 yards. Why would we change that?
Because we set it up by passing.




How so? They rank #1 in pass D this year and #15 in run D.
We can read a statsheet or we can discuss reality.



If they are ranking #15, then yes. #15 is middle of the pack.

See above
 
I'll readily admit I am the worse BJGE homer you will ever find on this board.

That being said, I would say that if an RB is tackled for a loss in the backfield, it would be difficult to find a reason to blame him because he'd barely have had time to accelerate to the point where he could cutback?

But it is irrelevant tot he discussion.
The argument was that play set a bad tone, or something to that effect. Its not even true because we didnt abandon the run anyway, but why does bad block or bad run have anything to do with the discussion?
 
How about a 35 year old, coming off a year long knee injury spreading out wide at times and credited with 39 snaps while Ocho only had 11 snaps.

RB and WR are different positions. Should we discuss what Tarpinain did yesterday, or can we accept that guys on the end of the bench like 85 are not real relevant?
 
How many of those 6 runs were draw plays?

Two. The first set up 3rd-and-1 which BJGE converted. The second was the play prior to the TD, a nice 6yd run well executed by Faulk.

When you're on the field for only 14 snaps, every single play is going to look much larger than it actually was. Two draws in 14 plays is not an indictment of the playcalling, but rather an indictment of having the ball for only 14 snaps.

Regards,
Chris
 
RB and WR are different positions. Should we discuss what Tarpinain did yesterday, or can we accept that guys on the end of the bench like 85 are not real relevant?

Played on 3 special teams units, thank you very much:p
 
Hey Patpsycho I'm with you. Faulk was in primarily for blitz pickup which was a giveaway that we were committed to the pass and Pittsburgh took advantage of it. Since resurrecting our run game we've been pretty successful when we've gone to it and not so much when we abandon it. A couple of trial rushes here and there is not any way to balance an offense. BJGE has gone against better defenses than we saw yesterday with decent success. It just wasn't part of the game plan and it's unfortunate that it wasn't.
Having said that though, the defense needs to not only prevent the opponent from scoring but with an offense like ours they need to get that offense back on the field. They failed miserably at getting the Steelers' offense off the field.
 
One additional aspect on the cold hard fact(?) - running the ball

Oh for the days I grew up on Pats football of Slam Bam Cunningham. Opposing teams KNEW THEY WERE RUNNING, they stacked the box they did what they did; AND THE PATS STILL GOT 4-5 yards.

And if they got down inside the 2 yard line; hell even with 2min left in the game and down by 10; THEY DIDN"T PASS THE BALL. THEY OVERPOWERED THE OTHER TEAM AND PUSHED IT IN. Hell even grogan went over the top a few times.

I really miss that aspect of the team. Being physical enough to dominate and get 1-2 yards when you need 0.5-1 yard.

The only time we run for a 1st down is by accident on 1-2 down or if they leave Brady's sneak unguarded at the line. Otherwise we will try to pass for 6 inches. :bricks:
 
The cold hard fact is that in our last five losses, playoffs included, one piece of stat stands out pretty large. In each of those loss, our primary running back had 10 or less carries.

You're confusing cause and effect, son.
 
The only cold hard fact I got out of the OP was that he stopped watching the game after the second quarter.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/19: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Back
Top