What was the stupider timeout?

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Rex Ryan called Mark Sanchez's timeout the stupidest thing in football.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/sh...x-Ryan-called-the-8216-stupid?urn=nfl-wp11763

What says you? Which was stupider, that timeout or a late 4th quarter timeout in the Patriots Ravens game in 2007?

 

[Tunescribe]

Ravens 2007, no real comparison.

 

[Betterthanmost]

Amazing how he is involved in both cases.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

The Ravens.

Last night was very bad, though. Just really horrible situational football, and to Rex's credit, he knew it right away.

It was the difference between all the momentum going into the locker room for the Jets and a much different scenario. I thought the punt muff by the Jets was a very significant event, but the time out was up there too.

Edit: Watching the replay on that link, I think maybe Sanchez was worried about an illegal substitution. It looked very close to one.

 

[brdmaverick]

hmm...I guess I am going against the grain here. I think last night's time out was BY FAR NOT EVEN CLOSE the dumber of the two time outs. In fact, I was screaming at the TV for the Patriots to take a time out to stop the clock (quite frankly I don't know why they didn't).

Anyways, Mark Sanchez's time out without a doubt led to the Patriots getting 7 points when they should have only gotten 3 at most.

When Rex Ryan called a timeout in Baltimore, he wanted to talk to his defense on a key fourth down. What is wrong with that? Sure the players didn't see the time out, ran the play, and the play stopped the Pats, but how would he know that when he was trying to call time out?

Think of it like a false start on a play where the snap is fumbled. Was it genius or a good play for the offense to have a false start? No, it just happened to work on their favor. Just like in the Baltimore game, the time out just happened to go against them.

In the game last night, it was a clear case of poor clock management...no ifs ands or buts about it.

 

[Tunescribe]

hmm...I guess I am going against the grain here. I think last night's time out was BY FAR NOT EVEN CLOSE the dumber of the two time outs. In fact, I was screaming at the TV for the Patriots to take a time out to stop the clock (quite frankly I don't know why they didn't).

Anyways, Mark Sanchez's time out without a doubt led to the Patriots getting 7 points when they should have only gotten 3 at most.

When Rex Ryan called a timeout in Baltimore, he wanted to talk to his defense on a key fourth down. What is wrong with that? Sure the players didn't see the time out, ran the play, and the play stopped the Pats, but how would he know that when he was trying to call time out?

Think of it like a false start on a play where the snap is fumbled. Was it genius or a good play for the offense to have a false start? No, it just happened to work on their favor. Just like in the Baltimore game, the time out just happened to go against them.

In the game last night, it was a clear case of poor clock management...no ifs ands or buts about it.

The Wrecks timeout in Baltimore arguably cost them the game (it was a fourth-down stop). He not only called it too late, but assistant coaches aren't supposed to call time outs. The ref had his back to the sideline, heard "Time out!" and blew the whistle stopping play the second it started.

By contrast, the one last night still left the Pats deep in their own territory after the kickoff with odds (generally) in favor of the defense.

 

[ScottieC]

Any time out that gives Tom Brady more time with the ball, or a second chance - should be considered stupid and avoided.

 

[brdmaverick]

The Wrecks timeout in Baltimore arguably cost them the game (it was a fourth-down stop). He not only called it too late, but assistant coaches aren't supposed to call time outs. The ref had his back to the sideline, heard "Time out!" and blew the whistle stopping play the second it started.

By contrast, the one last night still left the Pats deep in their own territory after the kickoff with odds (generally) in favor of the defense.

My point is that Rex called the time out BEFORE the play happened. He would have been a hero if the Pats scored a TD on the play and were stopped after the time out. I don't find it dumb for any coach to call time out before a fourth down with the game on the line.

 

[voluntarysaftey]

The Wrecks timeout in Baltimore arguably cost them the game (it was a fourth-down stop). He not only called it too late, but assistant coaches aren't supposed to call time outs. The ref had his back to the sideline, heard "Time out!" and blew the whistle stopping play the second it started.

It cost them the game, but it was not a dumb timeout to take. What if the Pats had made it, then it becomes a smart timeout? You can't judge the action by a sole result.

Whereas the Jets timeout, Sanchez had no reason to call it so quickly -- there was 0 possible benefit to the jets for calling it quickly. That timeout may have cost them the game -- If the Jets go into the halftime with the lead, it could've been a totally different game.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

You guys have convinced me that the Ravens time out was only dumb using hindsight.

I guess one point to make about the Sanchez time out is that everyone is assuming that the only possibilities after the time out were TD or FG. That's not exactly true. There could have been a defensive foul giving a new set of downs in which case you want to have some more time.

I've actually seen this a few times -- team runs the ball on second and goal late in a half with about a minute left. Lets the clock run down all 40 seconds before running the third down play assuming it's the second to the last play of the half. Defensive PI in the end zone. Now there are like 10 seconds left and it's first and goal. If you don't have time outs, you can't run it, and you may have cost yourself a shot or two at the end zone.

Not really relevant here, because there was plenty of time left and I think the Jets had time outs. Plus, Sanchez didn't say that was his thinking -- it clearly wasn't, but if it had been, at least you could say he only made a judgment error not an idiot error. Still worth mentioning though. Weird stuff can happen at the end of a half.

 

[upstater1]

Jets only tacked on 15 seconds with the timeout. Brady would still have had 1:05. With 2 timeouts.

 

[The_Riddler]

Here's the scary part. If Sanchez didn't call the timeout, I'm not sure BB would have called the timeout by the looks of things as the clock was ticking down and the Jets were setting up. Why wouldn't BB have called the timeout before Sanchez's brain fart?

Peyton Manning takes that clock at that point down to inside of a minute and does the silent snap with 1 second remaining on the play clock.

 

[Deus Irae]

This one, by a mile. There was nothing wrong with the Ravens timeout.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Here's the scary part. If Sanchez didn't call the timeout, I'm not sure BB would have called the timeout by the looks of things as the clock was ticking down and the Jets were setting up. Why wouldn't BB have called the timeout before Sanchez's brain fart?

He must have viewed the time out as more valuable than the 39 seconds run off the clock. Once you get under two minutes, I think it's a close call but probably the right one. The Patriots only had 2 time outs. It's hard to assume a TD, even with Brady, with about 1:40. You're really thinking of a FG drive there, and time outs are very important for setting up field goals, because they put the middle of the field into play when you're on your opponent's side of the field. It's a forgotten play in that game, but I think the face mask is really what put the Patriots in TD mode instead of FG mode. It was a huge play.

Plus, calling time out with 1:40 left and the Jets knocking on the door has risk. The Jets still had two time outs and it was a very close game. You have to think about the possibility of a three and out and giving the Jets the ball back with over a minute left and a chance to have a FG. I think the way it played out was just about perfect. 1:20 and 2 time outs is just enough time to have an outside shot at a TD and a decent shot at a FG, without leaving your opponent too much time.

 

[The_Riddler]

He must have viewed the time out as more valuable than the 39 seconds run off the clock. Once you get under two minutes, I think it's a close call but probably the right one. The Patriots only had 2 time outs. It's hard to assume a TD, even with Brady, with about 1:40. You're really thinking of a FG drive there, and time outs are very important for setting up field goals, because they put the middle of the field into play when you're on your opponent's side of the field. It's a forgotten play in that game, but I think the face mask is really what put the Patriots in TD mode instead of FG mode. It was a huge play.

Plus, calling time out with 1:40 left and the Jets knocking on the door has risk. The Jets still had two time outs and it was a very close game. You have to think about the possibility of a three and out and giving the Jets the ball back with over a minute left and a chance to have a FG. I think the way it played out was just about perfect. 1:20 and 2 time outs is just enough time to have an outside shot at a TD and a decent shot at a FG, without leaving your opponent too much time.

See I disagree, I would rather give Brady the ball with 1:20 left and one time out than with what 50 seconds and 2 timeouts. Brady is the master at working the sidelines, hurrying the offense and spiking the ball when needed. I give Brady the extra 30 seconds any day of the week in place of a timeout.

The entire room I was in watching the game was screaming for BB to preserve time on the clock and call a timeout after the Jets ran their second play. Instead Mark Sanchez stepped up and did BB a favor.

 

[Patsrock]

This one, by a mile. There was nothing wrong with the Ravens timeout.

Plus other than the undefeated season the Ravens game had no meaning whatsoever. Pats had already clinched the division and a first round bye at that point.

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

See I disagree, I would rather give Brady the ball with 1:20 left and one time out than with what 50 seconds and 2 timeouts. Brady is the master at working the sidelines, hurrying the offense and spiking the ball when needed. I give Brady the extra 30 seconds any day of the week in place of a timeout.

I don't think it's an obvious call one way or the other, and I think your opinion is a valid one.

For me, given the way the game was going, calling time out right away there -- that is, with 1:40 on the clock, is a bit too much and really does put into play some scenarios where the Jets get a meaningful chance to score again before the end of the half. But I agree that letting the clock go down to 1:05 or whatever is not ideal either. I really think it worked out great -- 1:20 seems just about right. In the end, though, I can see other reasons for the Patriots not to be the ones calling the TO. Jets looked a bit ragged and confused. Why give them a free chance to think about the play? At the time, the difference between a stop on third down and a TD was big.

Also, I think maybe you're forgetting one other fact -- what if the Jets run the third down play and stay in bounds but don't get the TD? At that point, the Pats have to use their last time out and have none left to potentially set up a FG. I think BB's plan, if the Jets hadn't scored, was to use the time out with about 1:00 left and still have one left.

Again, good arguments all around. I don't think this is an 80/20 call, but much closer to 50/50 with small things making the difference. That the Patriots were due to get the ball to start the third quarter also, I'm sure, played into it. You might try to preserve more time if the Jets are going to get the ball.

 

[PatsFan24]

Last night.

The Ravens did it because they didn't like something they saw on the defense. Last night what the Jets did was just a brain fart.

 

[Theplayer]

haven't seen any talk about why the pats did not call the TO before the Jets. No way Belichick knew the jets were going to call one, so why wasn't he is the question?


never mind, just saw the discussion above. I too was screaming for the Pats to call a TO...give Brady 1:20 with 1 TO over 50 seconds with 2 any day.

 

[The_Riddler]

Also, I think maybe you're forgetting one other fact -- what if the Jets run the third down play and stay in bounds but don't get the TD? At that point, the Pats have to use their last time out and have none left to potentially set up a FG. I think BB's plan, if the Jets hadn't scored, was to use the time out with about 1:00 left and still have one left.

Fair enough, yet I think the Jets were on the 8-yard line with a 3rd down, so the likelihood of them running the ball there were slim, especially where it was 3rd down. 2nd down maybe, not on 3rd down.

I have noticed that about BB, if you remember the dreaded AFCCG in Indy, Peyton purposely ran the clock down, literally took like 35 valuable seconds off the clock to kill any chance we might have to get the score back after the Colt TD. BB chose to let that clock run down and he chose to preserve the timeouts which I thought was very poor strategy and time just ticked away. Manning ran the clock down to literally 2 second before the snap and with that killed tons of valuable time that I would rather have given to Tommy instead of trying to preserve a TO. 40 more seconds is lot more valuable to Tom Brady than a timeout. And if you remember when the Pats got the ball, Brady had to rush everything simply because of the lack of time.