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What trade moves should the Patriots make before the deadline?


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What should the Patriots do before the trade deadline?


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Look your entire idea is hysterically absurd.

If you think that Cam is toast -- and the last two games at least put this into the realm of possibility -- then there is only one really rational way to handle it and that is hand over the team to Stidham and see what he can do with continuous weeks of QB1 reps and game experience. They have been working on him for 1.5 years now and outside the first two weeks of camp he never even got consistent reps with the starters.

The idea that they would sign a QB off someone else's PS and just randomly start him is completely bananas. You are talking about a team that is intentionally not giving their 3rd round TE pick any targets (even in the redzone) because he has not yet shown full grasp of the offense. And you seriously think there is a chance they'd just put some random dude in as QB ?
I didn't say start him, in fact I agree they should start Stidham and try to develop him. No, I mean to snatch one of these guys and see how they look in practice, see if they can absorb the playbook.

This team isn't competitng for a playoff spot at this point and with no QB on the roster. Cut Hoyer, hell if Stidham starts to look decent cut Cam. Build for next year, find competitive bodies for key positions to bring to camp.
 
I didn't say start him, in fact I agree they should start Stidham and try to develop him. No, I mean to snatch one of these guys and see how they look in practice, see if they can absorb the playbook.

This team isn't competitng for a playoff spot at this point and with no QB on the roster. Cut Hoyer, hell if Stidham starts to look decent cut Cam. Build for next year, find competitive bodies for key positions to bring to camp.

Yeah that makes more sense to me. I was wondering if I missed something obvious I guess I misunderstood the JG reply.

I still think now is not an ideal time to do it because there won't be much time the staff has to work with that guy but sure.. put someone on the PS and just have a look.
 
The same thing would have been said about Kurt Warner back when... Jordan Ta'amu is not getting a sniff in KC and they have a good eye for talent. There's nothing to lose and at some point the Pat's will start playing to improve rather than win.
Do you know how many Kurt Warner’s made it in the league? 1 Kurt Warner. You are pretty much saying we should avoid trading good players so we can hope we find a miracle at QB rather than just do the responsible and more likely thing which is find a guy in the draft like everyone else has to and unload players who will be older or prohibitive before that QB develops.

There is something to lose... time and assets. We can guy something for Thuney now, not next year. Gilmore will be old before we can make a run again.

You are basically saying we shouldn’t cut down and make a budget because we can buy some lottery tickets for cheap and hope
 
Also there are teams that will have high 1sts who may already have their QB. Cincinnati, Jacksonville and the Chargers don't need QB's.
Minshew?......LMFAO

At least 2 of the 3 teams in your quote would jettison their young QB in a nanosecond and it could be argued Cincy would prefer Lawrence and the assets a Burrows trade would bring the Bengals
 
Could you please point to when Bill has EVER had a "fire sale"?

What team would want to take Thuney when they can't renegotiate his contract until the end of the season? Not to mention the unknown extent of his ankle injury.

These ideas of yours make DWToys look like frakking Einstein.

Why would teams take Edelman? There is only one place he'd want to go. And that's Tampa. And Tampa doesn't need him.

White is a rental and the Pats would be lucky to get a 6th rounder for him..

Why destroy a damn good O-line only to set yourself back 5-7 years? Which is what would happen in your scenario?
Bill’s never had a team this bad in 20 years. Even the 2000 team had talent that would later become massive parts of the first few SB’s,

Right now we don’t have an offensive skill player you could get more than a 5th for.

Anyways to answer your question there are teams like the Bengals that have a young QB that is showing a ton of promise that is getting hit at a historic rate behind their line and desperately need help and could and would pay Thuney next year. There’s teams like Seattle that are incredible on offense that know that they will play a team like Tampa or Green Bay in the playoffs and not be able to stop Rodgers or Brady. They’d love Gilmore because it could be the difference between a SB or not and they’d have him next year.

You’re right, Edelman is worthless, but he could be used as a sweetener in a trade.

As far as blowing up a good offensive line, read the tea leaves. If we couldn’t make a deal happen with Thuney this year..... he’s probably gone.
 
The Pats NEED to make a decision about the identity of this team. I thought that they had done so by bringing Cam in. That they were going to be a run first team that relied on Cam's legs and not his throwing.

They seemed to have the O-line in place to be that Run-First team. Especially with Onwenu's ability to play extremely well at LG or RT. I felt that the Best O-line to put out for running would be Wynn, Onwenu, Thuney, Mason, Herron/Eleumenor. Injuries have now derailed that with Thuney, Herron and Eleumenor ALL being injured. No. I'm not saying that Andrews is a BAD center. He's a very good pass-blocking center and an above average run-blocking center. Thuney is just BETTER than him.. Even the O-line of Wynn, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Herron was run-blocking very good.

Adding to the "Run first" idea, they have an excellent stable of RBs in Michel, Harris, Taylor, Burkhead, and White. This would allow them to routinely run the ball MORE and still have Play-Action options in all of the RBs, even though they've not been used like that. This would actually open up the offense and make it harder for defenses to T off on the run.

With the idea that the team was being "Run First" this puts an emphasis on your WR being good run blockers. Harry was surpassing expectations there, imho. He was also making contested catches. People were b***hing about his Yards per catch, but were ignoring that he wasn't being asked to run intermediate routes. Byrd has shown to be decent, but they aren't using him correctly, imho. HE, not Harry, Edelman or Zuber, should be the one getting the Jet sweeps or WR Screens. Not doing so, to me, is a lack of proper utilization of that 4.,25-4.3 speed.

However, since the start of the season, the Patriots BASE offense seems to be either the 3WR/1TE/1RB or 2WR/2RB/1TE. Not the 1WR/2TE/2RB or 2WR/2TE/1RB. The base scheme says "pass first". Which makes no sense. It doesn't play into their strengths of running the ball. It doesn't help the young TEs get reps during practice. It doesn't help their young QB in Stidham develop with the team.

Prior to the last game, I'd been a proponent that no player, including QB, could be responsible for a team loss. Cam proved me wrong. He single-handedly ended every 1st half drive. He was late on his reads. Being late caused him to miss players who were open. It caused him to miss badly on the throws he did make. He led receivers into bad hits such as the one that knocked Harry out of the game. Even his attempt to throw the ball away by throwing it into the ground was done so poorly that it resulted in an interception. Certain people on here will claim that the receivers weren't getting open. That's false. They were but Cam was missing them because of his slow reads. Even on the run plays, Cam was slow. He was slow to get the ball into the hands of the RBs. He was slow on plays where he decided to run the ball. I said it during the game day thread. Cam made me wish we has Mark Sanchez as our QB.

The tools are in place for this team to be a Run First team. That needs to be the focus. That also means having someone other than Cam leading on the field, imho. That's the first thing that needs to change. BB needs to rip the band-aid off just like he did with Steve Martin back in 2002. By becoming that "Run First" team, this will immediately help the defense because they shouldn't be on the field for 22 of the first 30 minutes of a game. And that will have a snowball effect of making the entire team better.
 
Because there isn't a QB available at reasonable price that would make much of a difference at this point.

Honestly, I think someone like Case Keenum or Alex Smith would make a difference. Smith, however, is cost prohibitive because of his contract.
 
Bill’s never had a team this bad in 20 years. Even the 2000 team had talent that would later become massive parts of the first few SB’s,

Right now we don’t have an offensive skill player you could get more than a 5th for.

Anyways to answer your question there are teams like the Bengals that have a young QB that is showing a ton of promise that is getting hit at a historic rate behind their line and desperately need help and could and would pay Thuney next year. There’s teams like Seattle that are incredible on offense that know that they will play a team like Tampa or Green Bay in the playoffs and not be able to stop Rodgers or Brady. They’d love Gilmore because it could be the difference between a SB or not and they’d have him next year.

You’re right, Edelman is worthless, but he could be used as a sweetener in a trade.

As far as blowing up a good offensive line, read the tea leaves. If we couldn’t make a deal happen with Thuney this year..... he’s probably gone.
They were worse in 2002. This defense has some good things about it - that team didn't. Not much better in 05 but injuries didn't help.
 
Honestly, I think someone like Case Keenum or Alex Smith would make a difference. Smith, however, is cost prohibitive because of his contract.
Smith would be a great fit here if they're not going to be a running team.

It was Smith not Mahomes that torched the Pats in the 17 opener.
 
Smith would be a great fit here if they're not going to be a running team.

It was Smith not Mahomes that torched the Pats in the 17 opener.
Smith would be a great fin regardless of how they went, imho. He's just cost prohibitive because of his contract.. Granted it's $9.4M or so remaining this season. It doubles to 18.75M next season and $20M the following..
 
Gilmore- 1st & 3rd
Thuney- 2nd & a conditional 3rd (team franchises him or signs him long term).
Edelman- 4th
Burkhead- 5th
You won’t get a first and third for Gilmore. You could get that if you packaged him with Edelman or Burkhead?

personally I’d package Gilmore and Edelman together to Seattle and package Burkhead and Thuney to Cincinnati. They have experience with Burkhead
 
Gilmore- 1st & 3rd
Thuney- 2nd & a conditional 3rd (team franchises him or signs him long term).
Edelman- 4th
Burkhead- 5th
Gilmore is over 30 and with the cap likely coming down next year and he wanting 1 last big deal it’s unlikely we’d get anything better then a 2nd for him.

Thuney will be tough to get a lot for because he’s playing under the tag.

Edelman is 34, playing on an injured knee and is ineffective. We aren’t getting a 4th for him.
 
They were worse in 2002. This defense has some good things about it - that team didn't. Not much better in 05 but injuries didn't help.
No they weren’t.

1. Tom Brady was developing into who he would become, still making good decisions, and led the league in TD’s.

2. Troy Brown was a near 900 yard receiver and as capable as ever. He was better than anything we had now at WR.

3. Deion Branch was developing and promising his first year and doing what we hoped we could have been getting from Harry

4. David Patten was giving us more production than anyone we have now.

So just offensively it was a completely different situation. We weren’t neutered.

5. Light and Woody made our line every bit as good if not better.

6. LB wise which is our weakest defensive spot now we had Bruschi, Vrabel, Izzo and Phifer. Huge upgrade there..

7. I’ll still take Mcginest and Seymour over our rushers now.

8. Our secondary is our best spot now. We had Ty Law and Lawyer Milloy back there. I’d say this is one spot you can give the edge to the current deeper secondary, but not by much.

9. we had prime Vinatieri kicking

I would kill for the 2002 team right now
 
No they weren’t.

1. Tom Brady was developing into who he would become, still making good decisions, and led the league in TD’s.

2. Troy Brown was a near 900 yard receiver and as capable as ever. He was better than anything we had now at WR.

3. Deion Branch was developing and promising his first year and doing what we hoped we could have been getting from Harry

4. David Patten was giving us more production than anyone we have now.

So just offensively it was a completely different situation. We weren’t neutered.

5. Light and Woody made our line every bit as good if not better.

6. LB wise which is our weakest defensive spot now we had Bruschi, Vrabel, Izzo and Phifer. Huge upgrade there..

7. I’ll still take Mcginest and Seymour over our rushers now.

8. Our secondary is our best spot now. We had Ty Law and Lawyer Milloy back there. I’d say this is one spot you can give the edge to the current deeper secondary, but not by much.

9. we had prime Vinatieri kicking

I would kill for the 2002 team right now
I still think 2002 was worse. Pass offense may be a bit better but defense was definitely worse and it's not close. I'll give you AV and the QB.

I think your perspective of that offense is very optimistic. We all know about the run defense. They also had one of the worst rush offenses in the league too. Branch was nothing special yet. Brady also wasn't all that just yet. You mentioned guys like Branch and Brown and yet the last 7 games of the season TB threw for over 220 yards zero times and under 200 yards 4 times in that timeframe. Offense overall was bottom third in yards in the league. That team didn't get better as the season went on and into December - they got worse.

The Titans demolition on MNF that year went just like the SF game on Sunday except that was in December and not in October. Not very BB like to have that happen to one of his teams when they usually peak in December.
 
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To me, if you're not signing a vet QB you leave yourself with the cap space to sign a vet Oline man.

I have no idea what they're going to do but keeping a top ranked gaurd seems to be a priority to me.
I might even franchise Thuney.

HOWEVER, if he goes, OG is NOT a top priority with Mason and Onwenu as starters, and Froholdt as a backup. I would expect us to use a midlevel or late draft choice on OL's yet again.
 
I still think 2002 was worse. Pass offense may be a bit better but defense was definitely worse and it's not close. I'll give you AV and the QB.

I think your perspective of that offense is very optimistic. We all know about the run defense. They also had one of the worst rush offenses in the league too. Branch was nothing special yet. Brady also wasn't all that just yet. You mentioned guys like Branch and Brown and yet the last 7 games of the season TB threw for over 220 yards zero times and under 200 yards 4 times in that timeframe. Offense overall was bottom third in yards in the league. That team didn't get better as the season went on and into December - they got worse.

The Titans demolition on MNF that year went just like the SF game on Sunday except that was in December and not in October. Not very BB like to have that happen to one of his teams when they usually peak in December.
We led the league in TD passes that year. We currently are the worst in that stat
 
We led the league in TD passes that year. We currently are the worst in that stat

True - but just some food for thought:

Brady's first 4 games in 02: 100.9 passer rating, 11:4 TD/INT
Last 12 games: 79 passer rating, 17:10 TD/INT

I don't want to go too in depth into numbers because that's before the Polian rule changes but that is quite a difference.

Still I'm not arguing that this 2020 pass offense isn't wretched. It definitely is and the QB has a lot to do with it too.
 
As far as how fast they can turn this team around. It can happen fast. A lot of cap space, a lot of draft picks (11 is the number I’m hearing with the compensatory picks included), and several guys coming back from covid opt out.

They MUST draft a QB in the 1st round. They will have a top 10 pick, so they need to do that. MULTIPLE EXPLOSIVE OFFENSIVE weapons are a must at the WR/TE positions, whether in round 2 on in the draft or FA. Cannot be ignored anymore. I appreciate that they FINALLY addressed the TE position in the draft, but another thing that needs to change to succeed in the rebuild is to utilize the weapons you are drafting, not babying them.
 
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