What is going on at the TE position?

[Uptown]

Is it more complex now than what it was in 2010 ? When Gronk had 42rec, 546yard, 10TD and AH had 46rec, 563yard, 6TD.

Great question; but I’d argue (IMHO) those 2 had the perfect storm/combination of opportunity, timing, offensive scheme, talent & football IQ. AKA Outliers

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

Generally speaking tightends take a year or 2 to develop in the NFL. Gronk and AHern are outliers. Most rookie TEs start 'showing' later in their first seasons. I think Evan Engram is the only other recent outlier.

The TE play has been improved from a blocking standpoint and izzo has improved a bit in that respect. Asiasi is getting reps..holding his own blocking. The timing will come..it will click.

Keene is more of a project.

Would agree that a veteran TE would have made a lot of sense here but....what do I know.

 

[Deus Irae]

Generally speaking tightends take a year or 2 to develop in the NFL. Gronk and AHern are outliers. Most rookie TEs start 'showing' later in their first seasons. I think Evan Engram is the only other recent outlier.

The TE play has been improved from a blocking standpoint and izzo has improved a bit in that respect. Asiasi is getting reps..holding his own blocking. The timing will come..it will click.

Keene is more of a project.

Would agree that a veteran TE would have made a lot of sense here but....what do I know.

Kittle had 43 catches (63 targets) as a rookie
Fant had 40 catches (66 targets) as a rookie
Engram had 64 catches (115 targets) as a rookie


There are others, though your underlying point about TEs not generally being first year breakouts is dead on. And, bringing up some of them helps, I think, to emphasize that this year's class seems a down group, with nobody even seeming to come close to that level as rookies.

 

[Wozzy]

Is it more complex now than what it was in 2010 ? When Gronk had 42rec, 546yard, 10TD and AH had 46rec, 563yard, 6TD.

You mean Gronk, arguably the greatest TE in league history on a per game basis, and Hernandez whose career was upended by sociopathic behavior but otherwise was the best H-Back in the league in his prime?

I'd make a good comp for Asiasi to Alge Crumpler, not Gronk, but still a good player. I'd make a Foster Moreau comparison for Keene, good player but his future still isn't written.

Maybe expecting HOF results from midround picks and instant satisfaction isn't realistic?

 

[Ochmed Jones]

great te players make plays!
Mediocre te players make just enough plays to stay in the league!
substandard te players fill our Tight end room the last two years.

 

[Wheelman]

Asiasi is on the field a lot, just not as a target.

On the field a lot? Your definition of a lot is suspect.

 

[Wozzy]

Literally nothing there addresses my points. And nothing there is evidence that backs your claims about Harry or Michel, beyond Harry not having a lot of drops. That doesn't mean that he's playing well, nor does it really offer any great evidence that he's doing so, particularly in light of his YPC.

Harry is in what is essentially his rookie season and getting his first taste of "trust" in an offense, albeit in one of the least pass friendly offense's in the NFL. Luckily he is an incredible blocker as far as WR's go, even if you don't value blocking among WR's or RB's which you clearly don't.

Efficiency is the best we can hope for in a scheme that highlights team first. These players you malign are efficient, they are contributing to winning football plays and pass the eyeball test.

You are a half glass empty guy, everyone expects you to crap in the punch bowl and you rarely disappoint.

The Pat's aren't very good at passing, hopefully for their playoff hopes this improves. It isn't because of a lack of talent at WR.

The pundits told us Sanu ran flawless routes and got separation, he just got released by his second team this season. Fan takes are largely hyperbolic fanboy nonsense and media members largely glorified fans.

 

[Wheelman]

He is? What number does he wear? Serious question on the number. I really don't even know and I don't care to look it up.

He's not.

As for roster numbers, somebody is always updating the patriots wikipedia page regularly. It's a good place to start.

2020 New England Patriots season - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Oh and let's get off this nonsense that Izzo is a "good" blocker. He's average at best. Better than last season at least. Have you all forgotten so quickly the blocking masterpiece of Gronk? Even 2017 Dwayne Allen was almost going toe to toe with the elite blocking of Gronk. You people who think Izzo is blocking well have really low standards.

 

[mgteich]

Currently the Pats rank 26th in passing attempts on the season, there's only 32 teams. The QB play has been inconsistent at best, but hopefully improving.

I would expect us to be low in pass attempts. I would expect us rank high in run attempts.

 

[Wozzy]

Harry is averaging 40 yds a game and has 1 TD on the season. Has the bar really been set this low for a player to be playing well?

You expect volume fantasy passing stats from a team that throws the 26th fewest times in the NFL, your disappointment isn't in the passing output but the scheme and QB play.

They need to pass better. Fans insist Cam is the only reason they win, his ability to improve as a passer and health is the key to their playoff hopes.

After Chiefs game the Patriot fell out of top ten in the league in offensive scoring, now ranked 14th, understandable for an offense that just started Brian Hoyer. They can and will get better health provided.

 

[Wozzy]

I would expect us to be low in pass attempts. I would expect us rank high in run attempts.

The Pat's are the best rushing team in the NFL.

 

[Pats2000]

I don't understand it, do we just have horrible Tight Ends or is there a plan I can't see? Asiasi? Keene? Are they just too inexperienced or are they not good enough at this level? I was hoping to see something from a TE by now, any TE. I think they collectively just have one catch in four games right?
What gives?

We've got two rookies and Izzo, Gronk didn't really have much of an impact until the 9th game of the season. Also, BB seems to really focus on putting vets in before rookies. He likes to bring them along slowly, rather than throw them into it. We see that over and over again.

 

[captain stone]

A designed system so complex it renders its TE participants essentially useless

Hmmmmm......

Will Pats TEs figure out the system before their contracts expire?

Harry doesn’t get it
The TEs don’t get it
Hoyer ain’t got it

Any common denominator.....

Yep: the same guy brought all of them into the building...and designed the system...

 

[mgteich]

The Pat's are the best rushing team in the NFL.

And Cam is the one that is leader of that running game.

 

[Boomer B]

You expect volume fantasy passing stats from a team that throws the 26th fewest times in the NFL, your disappointment isn't in the passing output but the scheme and QB play.

They need to pass better. Fans insist Cam is the only reason they win, his ability to improve as a passer and health is the key to their playoff hopes.

After Chiefs game the Patriot fell out of top ten in the league in offensive scoring, now ranked 14th, understandable for an offense that just started Brian Hoyer. They can and will get better health provided.

We sit at 22nd in the league in points scored.Yes we run more but that should give our WRs an advantage when we do pass as the D’s will be stacking the box. His YPC is not good at all and he isn’t making big plays after the catch which is what we all heard he was good at and why he was a 1st round pick. Whichever way you look at it it is a huge stretch to say he is playing well.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

We can’t draft weapons. Since 09 (Edelman) and 10 (Gronk and Hermadez) we have not drafted one A level player for our offense. It took awhile but it came up to bite us

Those 3 were under O'Brien. McDaniels couldn't develop anyone from 05-08 and same now from 13-now. Particularly the tight end position. He inherited Gronk. Barely did anything with Watson before. And since 2013 zero notable offensive players. I guess James White but by all accounts White is the ultimate pro and probably developed himself.

.

 

[Brewskies]

I don't understand it, do we just have horrible Tight Ends or is there a plan I can't see? Asiasi? Keene? Are they just too inexperienced or are they not good enough at this level? I was hoping to see something from a TE by now, any TE. I think they collectively just have one catch in four games right?
What gives?

TE, is that a position used by the Patriots?

 

[Ollie]

Bill has stated that the rookie tight ends were probably limited as much as anyone by the very short training camp and lack of a preseason as the position is so multifaceted. They are clearly prioritising blocking over receiving which other teams with rookies may not have done. Also they were in years with full training camps and preseasons.

 

[SBLIII]

A designed system so complex it renders its TE participants essentially useless

Hmmmmm......

Will Pats TEs figure out the system before their contracts expire?

Harry doesn’t get it
The TEs don’t get it
Hoyer ain’t got it

Any common denominator.....

we could have had Justin Jefferson and AJ Brown in back to back drafts ffs

 

[SBLIII]

You expect volume fantasy passing stats from a team that throws the 26th fewest times in the NFL, your disappointment isn't in the passing output but the scheme and QB play.

They need to pass better. Fans insist Cam is the only reason they win, his ability to improve as a passer and health is the key to their playoff hopes.

After Chiefs game the Patriot fell out of top ten in the league in offensive scoring, now ranked 14th, understandable for an offense that just started Brian Hoyer. They can and will get better health provided.

Harry actually played well vs KC. The issue is that casuals consistently ignore the circumstances and look at raw stats and say, oh boy this guy can't play.

He is not great and likely never will be but he is decent. Not his fault he got drafted 1-2 rounds too early and BB can't evaluate skill position talent.