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What happened? We passed on Dez Bryant TWICE?!?!?


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Could I also make a list of CB misses?

A month ago, I went back and saw that more than 50% of the WRs make it. I also don't consider some of these guys can't miss. I went back over a decade.

16 makes-13 busts (including Clayton who is arguable)

I highlight the guys in blue who were hyped similarly to Bryant.

Calvin Johnson
Dwayne Bowe
Ted Ginn BUST
Santonio Holmes
Braylon Edwards BUST
Mike Williams BUST
Matt Jones BUST
Mark Clayton
Roddy White
Troy Williamson BUST
Larry Fitzgerald
Roy Williams
Lee Evans
Reggie Williams BUST
Michael Clayton BUST (80 catches and 1,200 yards his rookie year then bad QBs)
Michael Jenkins
Rsaun Woods BUST
Charles Rogers BUST
Andre Johnson
Bryant Johnson
Donte Stallworth
Ashley Lelie BUST
Javon Walker
David Terrell BUST
Koren Robinson BUST
Rod Gardner
Santana Moss
Freddie Mitchell BUST
Reggie Wayne


What is your criteria for BUST?? You have Braylon Edwards down as a bust, yet not Donte Stallworth?? Edwards was very consistent despite the horrible QB situation and O-line situation there in Cleveland. Stallworth never had a thousand yard season in his career..

You punish Michael Clayton for there being bad QBs in Baltimore???

I agree with your premise, that a 1 round WR is hit or miss.. Just your analysis leaves a bit to be desired.
 
Re: What happened? We passed on Dez Brant TWICE?!?!?

Got your facts wrong..

Hmm.. 6 CAREER Kick returns for 143 yards for Bryant. 22 punt returns for 431 yards and 3 TDs.

15 Career Kick returns for 351 yards for McCourty and a TD. 5 punt returns for 102 yards.

McCourty had more kick returns than Bryant. Bryant had more punt returns. their averages are very similar.. (23.4 vs. 23.8 kick returns avg: 20.4 vs 19.6 punt return avg. ) That to me makes McCourty the better kick returner and Bryant the better punt returner.

Bryant won't be returning punts for the Cowboys.. That will be Crayton, who was one of the best last year. Bryant likely won't be returning kicks either..

McCourty, on the other hand, will be returning kicks for the Pats since they don't really have anyone. Hopefully the blocking will be better on it because that was part of the issue last year.

I've seen the TDs. That's what I was going by mainly.
 
Re: What happened? We passed on Dez Brant TWICE?!?!?

I've seen the TDs. That's what I was going by mainly.


You can't compare Punt return TDs to Kick return TDs.. The blocking is entirely different as is the type of running that is done..

Not to mention the body of works is limited.. Bryant had NO kick returns for TD and McCourty and NO Punt returns for TD. Neither had a huge body of work.

Sorry, but you are pulling it out of your rear end.
 
What is your criteria for BUST?? You have Braylon Edwards down as a bust, yet not Donte Stallworth?? Edwards was very consistent despite the horrible QB situation and O-line situation there in Cleveland. Stallworth never had a thousand yard season in his career..

You punish Michael Clayton for there being bad QBs in Baltimore???

I agree with your premise, that a 1 round WR is hit or miss.. Just your analysis leaves a bit to be desired.

Mark Clayton is with Baltimore, Michael Clayton is with Tampa.

We can disagree on Edwards but he was picked very high in the draft. Stallworth was further down in the round where you will have busts. When you are being considered as the best player in the draft, you have to produce much more than Edwards did. A top 3 player that is traded away by his team during his first contract? For peanuts? That qualifies as a bust for me.
 
Re: What happened? We passed on Dez Brant TWICE?!?!?

After reading that list i don't want Damian Williams, look at how many WR with the last name of Williams turned out to be busts.
 
Re: What happened? We passed on Dez Brant TWICE?!?!?

You can't compare Punt return TDs to Kick return TDs.. The blocking is entirely different as is the type of running that is done..

Not to mention the body of works is limited.. Bryant had NO kick returns for TD and McCourty and NO Punt returns for TD. Neither had a huge body of work.

Sorry, but you are pulling it out of your rear end.

Sorry, but you are the one pulling this argument out of your rear since you're touting the McCourty pick vs. Bryant on the basis of returns on special teams, and the fact is Bryant had 3 TDs.

Also, since we're talking about kick returns and punt returns, last year we traded away Ellis Hobbs for Rich Ornberger (essentially) because we thought Wilhite was going to be taking over the slot. In addition, we traded away one of the best KRs in the league. So now suddenly we're supposed to value KR abilities so much more when they were so devalued last year? If Wilhite is such a bust in the slot, seems to me you could have done just as well by keeping Hobbs in the slot. He's a good kick returner too.
 
heh...never looked at it that way
 
Reports are starting to come in about Dez Bryant's consistent tardiness. He has a recurring problem with being on time.
 
Re: What happened? We passed on Dez Brant TWICE?!?!?

I'm a Cowboys fan, but I'm very disappointed - we needed more help on the OL and defensive backfield(ageing on the OL with no depth, and need a safety).

Bottom line - games are won on the OL and Defense. And especially considering the DBs that get injured on a weekly basis in recent years, BB did the right thing by adding depth, at the very least.

Damn right, remember 08 when Coach was going nuts shuffling players on our secondary. No harm in adding a CB last nite. Great pick!! Just wish he was a bit taller, but can jump as high as over 6Foot DB's!
 
Re: What happened? We passed on Dez Brant TWICE?!?!?

Sorry, but you are the one pulling this argument out of your rear since you're touting the McCourty pick vs. Bryant on the basis of returns on special teams, and the fact is Bryant had 3 TDs.

I'm the one using FACTS. Not you. Also, you can't compare Punt returns to kick returns. They require different skill sets..

Clearly you don't understand half of what you think you do. Which is pretty bad.

First of all, McCourty, besides being a KICK return man, also is a jammer and a Gunner. Those are things that Bryant doesn't do. So those are skills that will get McCourty on the field faster with the Patriots. Also, since you insist on not being able to think beyond your nose, McCourty has a much more likely chance of playing with the Pats than Bryant. See, the Pats ran the nickle on almost a third of their defensive plays last year. Can you honestly tell me that they ran 4 WR sets on that many plays? Nope. You can't. And they aren't going to this year either.

I think that Bryant will be a good player.. But I believe that McCourty brought more VALUE. If/When you understand that, maybe you can post a response that didn't pull stuff out of your arse.



Also, since we're talking about kick returns and punt returns, last year we traded away Ellis Hobbs for Rich Ornberger (essentially) because we thought Wilhite was going to be taking over the slot. In addition, we traded away one of the best KRs in the league. So now suddenly we're supposed to value KR abilities so much more when they were so devalued last year? If Wilhite is such a bust in the slot, seems to me you could have done just as well by keeping Hobbs in the slot. He's a good kick returner too.

Nothing here has a damn thing to do with McCourty or Bruant. Typical. Try and bring in something to divert the conversation since you are losing it badly.
 
I caught part of Billy Devaney, the Rams' GM, interview on ESPN radio and he said Bryant postponed his visit to the Rams so he could go to a bachelor party in Vegas.
 
Nice Job, Jerry. You've Redeemed Yourself

I hope I'm proved wrong next season, but I don't think I'm alone in thinking we should have taken Dez Bryant at 24. I think it's more widely shared than is indicated by the posters in this forum.

This team passed on Jerry Rice. Traded out of the spot to get some extra guys. We joined a bunch of other teams in not drafting Randy Moss, which I thought at the time was a mistake. Jerry Jones came around to agree with this--and he never forgot his mistake.

Well, we did it again. And I say this hoping I lose this argument. I want what's best for the Patriots. I'd love to eat crow.

Dez Bryant is easily a top-ten talent available to us late in the first round. It's Vince Wolfork all over again! It should have been a slam-dunk no-brainer. And we had already traded down, which is usually a good strategy, as the best "buys" are in the second and third rounds.

But it's also a need position for us. I'm afraid my fellow Patriot fans are in denial that Randy Moss has lost a step or two--it wasn't just the shoulder injury--and Welker will have a very tough road to haul returning to form. I tend to doubt his ability to make those incredibly lightning quick cuts that we've become used to over the years after his knee reconstruction surgery.

Notwithstanding Welker's heroics, we appear to have had an average receiver corps last year. Patriots Receivers: Hands Like Feet? What can be done to make it better? And some of these old guys we've brought in like old friend Patten and Holt are nothing more than bailing wire and chicken guts.

Brandon Tate is a big question mark. We all hope his maturity and health solidifies. Edelman is good at best. We need great, though, to complement Tom Brady.

But don't you just wish we had an explosive new guy, whom Rick Gosselin, the most respected writer covering the game today, predicts will be ROY? (He did the same thing last year with Percy Harvin.) Now the coaching staff knows more about Brandon Tate than I. I hope he makes the impact we know he is capable of. Maybe.

McCourty is a good, a solid pick for us. We hope he's a STer stud who will change games. By mid-season he likely starts for us. But I think we could have done a little better.

The Cowboys, after all, eagerly traded with us for. Either they're right or we are. Judging from fan reactions, people are excited about Bryant, who appears a superstar in the making: Cowboys trade up, select Oklahoma State WR Dez Bryant

The deal may, in the end, hinge on compensatory third-rounder, the unknown receiver from an unknown school who has great physical assets to make the deal worth it for some of us. That's a lot of pressure on a guy most of us had heard little of before the draft. Time will tell.
 
Re: Nice Job, Jerry. You've Redeemed Yourself

I hope I'm proved wrong next season, but I don't think I'm alone in thinking we should have taken Dez Bryant at 24. I think it's more widely shared than is indicated by the posters in this forum.

This team passed on Jerry Rice. Traded out of the spot to get some extra guys. We joined a bunch of other teams in not drafting Randy Moss, which I thought at the time was a mistake. Jerry Jones came around to agree with this--and he never forgot his mistake.

Well, we did it again. And I say this hoping I lose this argument. I want what's best for the Patriots. I'd love to eat crow.

Dez Bryant is easily a top-ten talent available to us late in the first round. It's Vince Wolfork all over again! It should have been a slam-dunk no-brainer. And we had already traded down, which is usually a good strategy, as the best "buys" are in the second and third rounds.

But it's also a need position for us. I'm afraid my fellow Patriot fans are in denial that Randy Moss has lost a step or two--it wasn't just the shoulder injury--and Welker will have a very tough road to haul returning to form. I tend to doubt his ability to make those incredibly lightning quick cuts that we've become used to over the years after his knee reconstruction surgery.

Notwithstanding Welker's heroics, we appear to have had an average receiver corps last year. Patriots Receivers: Hands Like Feet? What can be done to make it better? And some of these old guys we've brought in like old friend Patten and Holt are nothing more than bailing wire and chicken guts.

Brandon Tate is a big question mark. We all hope his maturity and health solidifies. Edelman is good at best. We need great, though, to complement Tom Brady.

But don't you just wish we had an explosive new guy, whom Rick Gosselin, the most respected writer covering the game today, predicts will be ROY? (He did the same thing last year with Percy Harvin.) Now the coaching staff knows more about Brandon Tate than I. I hope he makes the impact we know he is capable of. Maybe.

McCourty is a good, a solid pick for us. We hope he's a STer stud who will change games. By mid-season he likely starts for us. But I think we could have done a little better.

The Cowboys, after all, eagerly traded with us for. Either they're right or we are. Judging from fan reactions, people are excited about Bryant, who appears a superstar in the making: Cowboys trade up, select Oklahoma State WR Dez Bryant

The deal may, in the end, hinge on compensatory third-rounder, the unknown receiver from an unknown school who has great physical assets to make the deal worth it for some of us. That's a lot of pressure on a guy most of us had heard little of before the draft. Time will tell.

ROY? Want to bet a friendly beer on that?

I suspect that he will hold out for most of camp and come in ill-prepared then miss meetings and oversleep for practices. An indulgent fan base and ownership is the worst thing for this kid. I don't see him doing much the first year.

I suspect that McCourty will be starting before Bryant does a thing.

I have faith that BB has better information that the drugstore draft guides; he did the right thing and will prove it this year.

Besides Felger ripped the Patriots for not taking Dez so you just know BB did the right thing.
 
I'm with you, brother. I'm willing to bet that Bryant catches more TD passes (or at least equal) next season than BOTH Moss and Welker.

I'm willing to bet a Shipyard Brown Ale on that. I know Pat Chick won't forget--she's got a good memory.

Did you see the ESPN story about Bryant's unbelievable explosiveness and catcthing ability? His receiver's coach Stherman, who has coached TO, Jerry Rice, and Randy Moss, says Bryant "is in a league of his own."

Dallas Cowboys top pick Dez Bryant's skills come with a catch on first day of rookie minicamp - ESPN Dallas
A lot of you sycophantic fans of Bill refuse to realize we just got beaten hard by the Cowboys. Yes, we returned the favor to the Ravens, who were about to have our draft of 1995 when we grabbed The Tremendous Gronk away from them.

The Cowboys had Dez Bryant rated #8 on their draft board. And we give up on him for a much more unassuming, faster, far less productive guy. But that's BB's way. And it usually works. I buy into it too. But this time it will bite him in the arse.
 
Re: Nice Job, Jerry. You've Redeemed Yourself

I hope I'm proved wrong next season, but I don't think I'm alone in thinking we should have taken Dez Bryant at 24. I think it's more widely shared than is indicated by the posters in this forum.

This team passed on Jerry Rice. Traded out of the spot to get some extra guys. We joined a bunch of other teams in not drafting Randy Moss, which I thought at the time was a mistake. Jerry Jones came around to agree with this--and he never forgot his mistake.

Well, we did it again. And I say this hoping I lose this argument. I want what's best for the Patriots. I'd love to eat crow.

Dez Bryant is easily a top-ten talent available to us late in the first round. It's Vince Wolfork all over again! It should have been a slam-dunk no-brainer. And we had already traded down, which is usually a good strategy, as the best "buys" are in the second and third rounds.

But it's also a need position for us. I'm afraid my fellow Patriot fans are in denial that Randy Moss has lost a step or two--it wasn't just the shoulder injury--and Welker will have a very tough road to haul returning to form. I tend to doubt his ability to make those incredibly lightning quick cuts that we've become used to over the years after his knee reconstruction surgery.

Notwithstanding Welker's heroics, we appear to have had an average receiver corps last year. Patriots Receivers: Hands Like Feet? What can be done to make it better? And some of these old guys we've brought in like old friend Patten and Holt are nothing more than bailing wire and chicken guts.

Brandon Tate is a big question mark. We all hope his maturity and health solidifies. Edelman is good at best. We need great, though, to complement Tom Brady.

But don't you just wish we had an explosive new guy, whom Rick Gosselin, the most respected writer covering the game today, predicts will be ROY? (He did the same thing last year with Percy Harvin.) Now the coaching staff knows more about Brandon Tate than I. I hope he makes the impact we know he is capable of. Maybe.

McCourty is a good, a solid pick for us. We hope he's a STer stud who will change games. By mid-season he likely starts for us. But I think we could have done a little better.

The Cowboys, after all, eagerly traded with us for. Either they're right or we are. Judging from fan reactions, people are excited about Bryant, who appears a superstar in the making: Cowboys trade up, select Oklahoma State WR Dez Bryant

The deal may, in the end, hinge on compensatory third-rounder, the unknown receiver from an unknown school who has great physical assets to make the deal worth it for some of us. That's a lot of pressure on a guy most of us had heard little of before the draft. Time will tell.

The front office interviewed him. Don't you think that, if he showed that football was imprtant to him, that he would be a good citizen and employee, that he could master the playbook, and that he would be able to understand the offense and be where and when Brady expects him to be, the Patriots would have drafted him. Success doesnt just depend on talent.
 
Looking at the distinctive profile of this draft class, I have the feeling that the Patriots simply couldn't draft Bryant, even if they wanted to. For this team, at this time, it just wasn't a feasible option.

Last year's leadership vacuum and the fracturing of the lockerroom posed a huge threat to the organization's success. Rebuilding the winning, disciplined, united team culture was clearly the #1 priority of this offseason, more important than plugging any particular on-field hole.

In that atmosphere, you can't make your top overall draft pick a kid who routinely showed up late for practices and even games, no matter how talented he may be. You just can't. You have to put your money where your mouth is to get everyone to buy into a selfless devotion to team success.
 
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Looking at the distinctive profile of this draft class, I have the feeling that the Patriots simply couldn't draft Bryant, even if they wanted to. For this team, at this time, it just wasn't a feasible option.

Last year's leadership vacuum and the fracturing of the lockerroom posed a huge threat to the organization's success. Rebuilding the winning, disciplined, united team culture was clearly the #1 priority of this offseason, more important than plugging any particular on-field hole.

In that atmosphere, you can't make your top overall draft pick a kid who routinely showed up late for practices and even games, no matter how talented he may be. You just can't. You have to put your money where your mouth is to get everyone to buy into a selfless devotion to team success.
This is exactly how I feel. If we had a solid locker room last year, Dez Bryant may have been drafted by the Pats. I think his character issues are overblown, but he is nonetheless a moody, difficult-to-manage kind of player, much like a young Randy Moss. At this time, I don't think the Pats have the leadership to guide a young player like that, so even if we drafted him we may not have seen his full potential.
 
Re: Nice Job, Jerry. You've Redeemed Yourself

Dez Bryant is easily a top-ten talent available to us late in the first round. It's Vince Wolfork all over again! It should have been a slam-dunk no-brainer. And we had already traded down, which is usually a good strategy, as the best "buys" are in the second and third rounds.

Or he could be the next Braylon Edwards.

But don't you just wish we had an explosive new guy, whom Rick Gosselin, the most respected writer covering the game today, predicts will be ROY? (He did the same thing last year with Percy Harvin.) Now the coaching staff knows more about Brandon Tate than I. I hope he makes the impact we know he is capable of. Maybe.

The 2011 WR crop is going to be WAY more talented. That's a better year to take a 1st round WR.

McCourty is a good, a solid pick for us. We hope he's a STer stud who will change games. By mid-season he likely starts for us. But I think we could have done a little better.

Does Dez Bryant help our defense get off the field on 3rd downs? Does Dez Bryant help our defense against guys like Peyton Manning and Drew Brees who lit up our defense last season? No he doesn't.

Not to mention that you ignore all of his character red flags. No matter how talented a kid is, if he can't stay on the field for you, he won't help. Just look at how the Steelers shipped off Santonio Holmes for a 5th and then he immediately gets in trouble for his new team at the Pittsburgh Airport.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...escorted-off-plane-due-to-disruptive-behavior

The Cowboys, after all, eagerly traded with us for. Either they're right or we are. Judging from fan reactions, people are excited about Bryant, who appears a superstar in the making: Cowboys trade up, select Oklahoma State WR Dez Bryant

The Cowboys ALSO eagerly traded a 1st and 3rd for Roy 'El Busto' Williams. The dude can't even beat out Patrick Crayton on the depth chart. Are we supposed to trust their talent evaluation over the Pats talent evaluation after 'astute' moves like that??
 
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We passed on Dez Bryant TWICE?

I just hope Tommie Brady doesn't get frustrated throwing to David Patten, T. Holt, and Edelman. He better get on the same page as the TEs. That's his biggest weakness as a QB, which the Colts QB and the Saints QB are better at.

I realize that BB doesn't want to have to babysit spoiled brats. Life's too short for that business. But sometimes you gotta do what goes against one's inclination. Dez is worth it, baby.

Even Dr. Z at SI, who likely knows a thing or two more than the average poster here, really like him for us at our original spot.

Tom's political career will start looking pretty good sooner than later with the WRs we've got. How the mighty have fallen! We had the best pair perhaps in the history of the game. But when the age kicks in and a step or two is lost, and a knee is blown out, things change in a hurry/.

If Dez pulls in more TDs than Welker, Moss, and Edelman, we're in big trouble. And Tom's poo-oed.
 
Re: We passed on Dez Bryant TWICE?

If Dez pulls in more TDs than Welker, Moss, and Edelman, we're in big trouble. And Tom's poo-oed.

It's not like this is impossible. However, the probability of this happening is pretty much slim to none. If he did that, he would most likely break Moss' record for TD receptions in a season in his rookie year. Like I said, not impossible... just EXTREMELY improbable.
 
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