What about Marquis Flowers?

[BTTA]

So this year's starters are next year's corps of backups (except Harris).
Pretty remarkable what they've done.

For whatever reason, MP seems to have much preferred Roberts over Harris in most situations and gameplans.

The thing for me is just trying to remember that, with all the front seven guys who are missing from last season - plus the injuries to Van Noy and Trey Flowers - new guys like M. Flowers and Lee, and even 2nd-year Roberts, are having to cover roles that may be a bit beyond their current development and less than ideal for their current skill sets. They're all being stretched a bit right now - perhaps a good thing in the long run, in terms of accelerating their development, but not so good in the moment for overall defensive effectiveness.

Once Van Noy is back, it may be possible for MP to scale back the breadth of responsibilities for these three, and the unit as a whole may become more effective. Hopefully, it's jut good enough.

Also, Roberts and Lee are 23; M. Flowers is 25. So, there's still at least some potential for them to develop further by next season.

Overall, the average age (and experience level) of the players who've been getting the most snaps this year in the front seven is younger than it was last season, perhaps by more than we realize.

 

[Horace's Ivories]

I thought he looked great

 

[luuked]

I got **** on by one of our resident naysayers for calling the Marquis Flowers trade (7th round pick !!) a win simply because of his high level ST play and potential as emergency depth.

Him and Bademosi were two underrated but vintage BB trades this summer. You know the kind of trade that seems like a minuscule detail but then after the season is over you realize that it was worth it multiple times.

Sometimes you get players like that other times it fails and you have to cut players like Ealy who go on to a place that is a better fit.

 

[jimnance]

Good to see flowers blossom.
He puts petal to the metal.
No longer garden-variety.
Definitely not a pansy.

 

[patfanken]

I got **** on by one of our resident naysayers for calling the Marquis Flowers trade (7th round pick !!) a win simply because of his high level ST play and potential as emergency depth.

Him and Bademosi were two underrated but vintage BB trades this summer. You know the kind of trade that seems like a minuscule detail but then after the season is over you realize that it was worth it multiple times.

Sometimes you get players like that other times it fails and you have to cut players like Ealy who go on to a place that is a better fit.

A couple of thoughts:

1. I'm glad you posted. I was just about to ask what the Bengals got for Flowers. I googled it and it said the pick was "undisclosed". Are you sure it was for a 7th?

2. If it ends up being just for a 7th then it really was a nice trade. Flowers has all the skills you want in a core special teamer.

3. My first reaction to Flowers' career game was to think it was a flash in the pan. There is a reason he's in his 4th year and available for scraps. But then, wasn't Ninko around about 4 years before he wound up with the Pats to compete for the LS job? Then someone mentioned that he was only 25,, so maybe , like Ninko before him, there is still some upside for him in this system and with THESE coaches. Only time will tell, but so far so good.

4. We all need to take a closer look at how effective he is in coverage, if he gets better on the run, and can he supply consistent pressure on the QB when he rushes.

5. Never underestimate the unmitigated gall of people ****ting on you. I set a new record for disagrees for simply suggesting Gronk apologize to the fans for his stupid, stupid, and embarrassing melt down. It isn't personal. The "big red X" is just another way for people to say "I love you"

 

[Joey007]

He had nice game no doubt.

Very limited so I wouldn’t get super high hopes for him, though.

I’ve seen a lot of no names make some sudden rushing contributions then vanish, so I’m not gonna get my hopes up.

What’s Michael Buchanan doing these days? Anyone remember Eric Moore?

 

[SammyBlueCat]

All of them are starting to by into my methods.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He had nice game no doubt.

Very limited so I wouldn’t get super high hopes for him, though.

I’ve seen a lot of no names make some sudden rushing contributions then vanish, so I’m not gonna get my hopes up.

What’s Michael Buchanan doing these days? Anyone remember Eric Moore?

Moore 2010. Was in the CFL.

 

[luuked]

Are you sure it was for a 7th?

The Cincinnati Bengals have announced that the team has traded LB Marquis Flowers to the New England Patriots for a seventh-round draft selection in the 2018 draft.

Bengals swap LB Marquis Flowers for Patriots draft pick | PFF News & Analysis | Pro Football Focus

 

[luuked]

My first reaction to Flowers' career game was to think it was a flash in the pan. There is a reason he's in his 4th year and available for scraps. But then, wasn't Ninko around about 4 years before he wound up with the Pats to compete for the LS job? Then someone mentioned that he was only 25,, so maybe , like Ninko before him, there is still some upside for him in this system and with THESE coaches. Only time will tell, but so far so good.

Thats the thing though, I dont expect him to become a major contributor. And it seems like a lot of people judge trades only by whether someone became a visible player or not.

It is the same argument we keep having over Brandon Bolden again and again. Is he the most talented player ? Nope. Were more talented players cut before him ? Sure. But he fits a specific role and niche and in a world of salary cap and roster size limits he represents value.

And getting a good ST player that can jump in during emergency situations to get snaps at CB (Bademosi), RB (Bolden) or LB (Flowers) is worth considerably more than an exclusive 3rd down pass rushers like Ealy.

 

[Joey007]

Moore 2010. Was in the CFL.

Not to be confused with Eric Lee

 

[maineman209]

So this year's starters are next year's corps of backups (except Harris).
Pretty remarkable what they've done.

More or less. Or #2s/#3s in rotation.

For off-the-line (mostly)/middle (mostly), there should be HT + Van Noy as the #1s. I wouldn't expect Harris to be retained, and McClellin is WtFK. Situational/rotational guys may include Roberts and M. Flowers, possibly Langi. Reilly, who turns 30 on Jan. 17th, may be ST/deep reserve only, along with Grigsby and (possibly) Grissom.

For on/off the line/(mostly) edge roles, probably Trey Flowers, Wise would be the #1s - with Lee and (possibly) Rivers as situational/rotational. Kidder and Davis may also be in the mix on the 90-man off-season roster.

DL Interior (mostly)/edge (situationally) is likely to be a rotation of Brown, Guy, Butler, Valentine. Branch, who turns 33 this Friday, may not be back. RJF could be a veteran reserve through Camp (or not).

Not counting the elderly vets, the ST-only players, or the IR'd rookies, there's about 13-14 players for front-seven roles who are likely to be on the roster going into free agency and the draft, 11 of whom have had significant snaps on defense. Seems like a decent base on which to begin 2018 roster-building.

 

[Love The Drake]

He had nice game no doubt.

Very limited so I wouldn’t get super high hopes for him, though.

I’ve seen a lot of no names make some sudden rushing contributions then vanish, so I’m not gonna get my hopes up.

What’s Michael Buchanan doing these days? Anyone remember Eric Moore?

Beasts

 

[Joey007]

Beasts

Both are free agents, should we sign them?

 

[maineman209]

There is a reason he's in his 4th year and available for scraps.

I'm definitely NOT picking on you, Ken, but we both know that, for many posters, that's merely a rhetorical question for which the implied (and definitive) answer is, "because he sucks."

Alternative considerations are pre-emptively rejected:
... the player was behind too many other players in whom his former team was way too invested to give him a decent shot at a larger role
... the player's former team simply wasn't smart enough to figure out how to assign him a useful role

We're living in a binary age. Everybody is either "good" or "terrible". There is no "useful".

 

[BTTA]

I'm definitely NOT picking on you, Ken, but we both know that, for many posters, that's merely a rhetorical question for which the implied (and definitive) answer is, "because he sucks."

Alternative considerations are pre-emptively rejected:
... the player was behind too many other players in whom his former team was way too invested to give him a decent shot at a larger role
... the player's former team simply wasn't smart enough to figure out how to assign him a useful role

We're living in a binary age. Everybody is either "good" or "terrible". There is no "useful".

I was going to click "agree" but...

 

[BTTA]

More or less. Or #2s/#3s in rotation.

For off-the-line (mostly)/middle (mostly), there should be HT + Van Noy as the #1s. I wouldn't expect Harris to be retained, and McClellin is WtFK. Situational/rotational guys may include Roberts and M. Flowers, possibly Langi. Reilly, who turns 30 on Jan. 17th, may be ST/deep reserve only, along with Grigsby and (possibly) Grissom.

For on/off the line/(mostly) edge roles, probably Trey Flowers, Wise would be the #1s - with Lee and (possibly) Rivers as situational/rotational. Kidder and Davis may also be in the mix on the 90-man off-season roster.

DL Interior (mostly)/edge (situationally) is likely to be a rotation of Brown, Guy, Butler, Valentine. Branch, who turns 33 this Friday, may not be back. RJF could be a veteran reserve through Camp (or not).

Not counting the elderly vets, the ST-only players, or the IR'd rookies, there's about 13-14 players for front-seven roles who are likely to be on the roster going into free agency and the draft, 11 of whom have had significant snaps on defense. Seems like a decent base on which to begin 2018 roster-building.

I'm assuming, probably wrongly (because, well, it's the Pats), that one of the high picks will be used on a playmaker to supplement and then replace HT. There's just not enough durability in this group, and they need quality depth to go along with the regular depth you've highlighted so thoroughly here.

 

[maineman209]

I'm assuming, probably wrongly (because, well, it's the Pats), that one of the high picks will be used on a playmaker to supplement and then replace HT. There's just not enough durability in this group, and they need quality depth to go along with the regular depth you've highlighted so thoroughly here.

Yeah. I'd agree that LB - mainly ILB - might be a top priority in the draft, and possibly in FA. Seems like the thinnest position on the defense (and, then, the HT health issue).

However, with both Chung and McCourty turning 31 next Camp, and Richards seeming unlikely to progress beyond the special-teamer stage of development, SS might be a priority, too. Both LB and SS roles are critical to run-D and coverage at the second level, which seems to me to be the most significant issue, personnel-wise.

Whether LB or SS gets selected first depends on which specific prospects are available.

However, with both Edelman and Amendola aging, and with JG gone, WR and QB could be priorities, too -possibly also LT. Again, though, it depends on which specific prospects fall to within the Pats' reach.

 

[BTTA]

Yeah. I'd agree that LB - mainly ILB - might be a top priority in the draft, and possibly in FA. Seems like the thinnest position on the defense (and, then, the HT health issue).

However, with both Chung and McCourty turning 31 next Camp, and Richards seeming unlikely to progress beyond the special-teamer stage of development, SS might be a priority, too. Both LB and SS roles are critical to run-D and coverage at the second level, which seems to me to be the most significant issue, personnel-wise.

Whether LB or SS gets selected first depends on which specific prospects are available.

However, with both Edelman and Amendola aging, and with JG gone, WR and QB could be priorities, too -possibly also LT. Again, though, it depends on which specific prospects fall to within the Pats' reach.

I know, and it triggers my Pats fan entitlement. Here we are again, with a SB championship team once again in a leading position to repeat, and having a boatload of needs in the next draft. "If we don't find starting caliber QB, WR, LT, DE, DT, ILB, OLB, and S in this next year's draft, its all coming apart! Panic!"

It's always Christmas.

 

[PatsFan2]

With the added dept at LB Pats can Blitz legitimate LB's now and not that beefed up steroids freak Jordon Richards.