What’s Left To Do?

[rochrist]

Huck - You're a damn good poster. But when you start exaggerating with statements like "in the NFL's 250 year history", someone has to call you on your BS. The NFL is barely over 100 years old having been founded in 1920. And I can guarantee you that some of the first LTs did not have 55lbs SITP..

Next, go ahead and show everyone how this wonderful measurement is done. Make sure you include how they figure out the player's bone density and muscle density. Because each person's is different.

Lastly, go ahead and post all these SITP measurements from previous years.

The only time I've heard SITP mentioned is as it refers to a players ability to hold blocks. There was never measurable physical attribute.

Someone missed the joke.

 

[Wozzy]

I thought the Onwenwu out of shape story for the second year in a row was complete BS too. I just shrugged it off as being big is a big part of the job.

Then I just figured hearing you talk about some guys being too light (or lacking strength) was a good spot to discuss this further. And I think we definitely added some context to the discussion and anytime we can talk about Solder and even Brown is fun. Gotta give the big men some love every now and again.

It’s hard to scout these guys or determine what when wrong when the entire offense and unit looks like garbage.

 

[Wozzy]

Agreed!! Also light and vollmer respectively should have been all pros and or pro bowlers multiple times those guys were phenomenal OTs.

If Vollmer could have stayed healthy he could have been a perennial pro bowler. Light probably benefitted the most being a member of the early dynasty. He was a good player but a shade overrated in my estimation.

 

[patman52]

win games

 

[Family]

I didn’t think so. Many people complain about wingspan as if it’s a critical thing, yet none have been able to explain why and how it manifests in the football field.

The only valid explanation I've seen (and I don't know if it's even correct) is that there hasn't been a top LT in the league with this wingspan.

If that's true it has to be assumed that wingspan means something.

I was 100% for the pick though, so same side.

 

[Ring 6]

The only valid explanation I've seen (and I don't know if it's even correct) is that there hasn't been a top LT in the league with this wingspan.

If that's true it has to be assumed that wingspan means something.

I was 100% for the pick though, so same side.

But that explanation doesn’t include any evidence that any player failed BECAUSE OF wingspan.
Wingspan and height correlate in most people. Campbell is one in which they do not. Unless there is a skill set or function on the football field that is helped or hindered by wingspan it’s nothing more than an irrelevant data point.

 

[Family]

But that explanation doesn’t include any evidence that any player failed BECAUSE OF wingspan.
Wingspan and height correlate in most people. Campbell is one in which they do not. Unless there is a skill set or function on the football field that is helped or hindered by wingspan it’s nothing more than an irrelevant data point.

I don't know enough about OL technique to intelligently comment, but If there really has not been a widely accepted successful LT with this wingspan, that alone is evidence for at least questioning.

I've heard explanations concerning pass blocking keeping the defender away, and don't know if it's bull. Like I said, I am 100% behind the pick, but historical results should be considered at least one piece of evidence,

 

[The Gr8est]

I don't know enough about OL technique to intelligently comment, but If there really has not been a widely accepted successful LT with this wingspan, that alone is evidence for at least questioning.

I've heard explanations concerning pass blocking keeping the defender away, and don't know if it's bull. Like I said, I am 100% behind the pick, but historical results should be considered at least one piece of evidence,

Joe Thomas is on record as saying Campbell will be fine .

 

[Huckleberry1]

Huck - You're a damn good poster. But when you start exaggerating with statements like "in the NFL's 250 year history", someone has to call you on your BS. The NFL is barely over 100 years old having been founded in 1920. And I can guarantee you that some of the first LTs did not have 55lbs SITP..

Next, go ahead and show everyone how this wonderful measurement is done. Make sure you include how they figure out the player's bone density and muscle density. Because each person's is different.

Lastly, go ahead and post all these SITP measurements from previous years.

The only time I've heard SITP mentioned is as it refers to a players ability to hold blocks. There was never measurable physical attribute.

DaBruinz, Orlando Paces ass weighs 103 pounds if it weighs an ounce. And the NFL was founded in 1775, by Al Davis and Jerry Jones. I’m sorry, but those are just undeniable facts. But thanks for the kind words.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't know enough about OL technique to intelligently comment, but If there really has not been a widely accepted successful LT with this wingspan, that alone is evidence for at least questioning.

I've heard explanations concerning pass blocking keeping the defender away, and don't know if it's bull. Like I said, I am 100% behind the pick, but historical results should be considered at least one piece of evidence,

Then there should be an example of a talented OT who failed solely due to wingspan.
It’s like saying there has never been a good Chinese LT so being Chinese means you can’t be a LT.
If no one can give a reason why wingspan is an advantage or a detriment the it’s just an old wives tale. You can’t imagine a reason but are scratching for a way to validate it. That seems to be what everyone is doing.

 

[patchick]

My biggest immediate worry is CB depth. If you assume 3 starters, a single injury leaves that group highly vulnerable.

On Will Campbell, if he had the desired wingspan I wonder if he would even have lasted to #4. We're talking about a plug-and-play 4-year SEC starter who's legitimately elite on almost every other trait, physical and mental. Instead of arguing about his shoulders we could be here arguing about whether they should have traded up for him!

 

[Ring 6]

My biggest immediate worry is CB depth. If you assume 3 starters, a single injury leaves that group highly vulnerable.

On Will Campbell, if he had the desired wingspan I wonder if he would even have lasted to #4. We're talking about a plug-and-play 4-year SEC starter who's legitimately elite on almost every other trait, physical and mental. Instead of arguing about his shoulders we could be here arguing about whether they should have traded up for him!

100% with you on that. Vrabels defenses typically use 3.5+ corners per snap.
I’m ok with Austin as cb4 but I have zero confidence in any of the guys competing for cb5 and cb6. I guess you can feel players will emerge from competition but I’d really like to see us bring in some veterans. Best young guy who was good enough to beat out a veteran makes me feel a lot better than best young guy.

 

[patchick]

Then there should be an example of a talented OT who failed solely due to wingspan.

The usual example is Robert Gallery. Although it's possible that his short arms were just the scapegoat for why the supposed ultimate can't-miss OT prospect had to move inside.

 

[Wozzy]

The usual example is Robert Gallery. Although it's possible that his short arms were just the scapegoat for why the supposed ultimate can't-miss OT prospect had to move inside.

Peter Skoronski, Dillon Radunz… there’s a bunch of short armed tackles who were forced inside to guard in recent years. These two ^ scarily enough were taken by Mike Vrabel on the Titans… so maybe he hasn’t learned his lesson yet.

 

[patchick]

Peter Skoronski, Dillon Radunz… there’s a bunch of short armed tackles who were forced inside to guard in recent years. These two ^ scarily enough were taken by Mike Vrabel on the Titans… so maybe he hasn’t learned his lesson yet.

this is just to say that i accidentally chose the wrong reaction to your extremely informative post and i will never use the reaction emojis on mobile again

 

[VJCPatriot]

With the primary phase of free agency done, and the Draft and UDFA’s taken care of the only remaining question for the Patriots is what remains to be done, either through free agency or trade? And given the number of issues and holes they had to address this offseason you would expect there to be a number of areas left needing to be addressed, but I can really only come up with one, back up left tackle. But I’m interested in seeing what else people here feel needs to be addressed?

Training camp and preseason. Getting the our players ready for the new system, play calls, and familiar with the coaching should be the main focus.

We might add a couple of more players from other teams after roster cutdowns. But I wouldn't expect any major moves at this point.

Once we finalize the 53, this is pretty much going to be our roster, and we might add a couple more. But I don't expect any drastic changes unless a star player wants to leave and becomes available for just a 3rd or 4th round pick.

But even then i doubt they come to us because the Patriots are still in rebuild mode. And this is year 1 of the Vrabel rebuild. I don't count anything that Mayo did against him. Let's start the slate fresh for the new coach and his staff.

 

[VJCPatriot]

The problem is that there is no back up left tackle if Campbell goes down. Verdarian Lowe sucks, period, they need to replace him with an adequate left tackle to back up Campbell.

Let's not put the chicken before the egg. FIRST, let's hope our Rookie Campbell succeeds at the LT position. We can worry about injuries another day. Lowe will be the backup because we have spent our draft capital to address LT already and he at least has played here before even if he wasn't very good.

 

[rkarp1]

Agreed. Wilson and Brown provides depth at C. Sow got hurt in the preseason last year and the anke was more serious than we initially thought. It pretty much hampered his season. I thought Sow was pretty good when healthy. He filled in admirably for strange. Strange will need to make it though training camp injury free to have a roster spot IMO. Right now he's a starter..

I too liked Sow his rookie year, and thought we saw potential despite coaching that varied from piss poor to non existent.
yet year 2, Sow's snap count on offense went from 85% his rookie season, to 20% year 2. yet, his ST snap count went up from 10% to 14%.
if Sow was injured, how was he healthy enough to play snaps at FB?

 

[rkarp1]

I too have some concerns at CB.
Davis has been injury prone.
Marcus Jones has been very uneven. he was picked on (successfully) a lot last year.
team is perhaps S heavy and CB light.

 

[Real fan 02]

I too liked Sow his rookie year, and thought we saw potential despite coaching that varied from piss poor to non existent.
yet year 2, Sow's snap count on offense went from 85% his rookie season, to 20% year 2. yet, his ST snap count went up from 10% to 14%.
if Sow was injured, how was he healthy enough to play snaps at FB?

I mentioned he got hurt, and the ankle was a serious sprain wich he missed alot of time. He just got put in the dog house for some odd reason last year when it was a joke at OL play. Good information you posted, however it's inexplicable why he wasn't reinsert at LG where he filled in admirably before.