Week 7: Pats win, but what about the defense?

[Deus Irae]

Why won't it get better? The Pats were down two starters in the secondary. And historically, the Pats' defense always gets better as the year goes along. It may not get to be a good pass defense, but it could get significantly better.

I don't expect Gregory to get his starting job back. Do you?

 

[furry]

Do you know why they don't blitz?

It's the same reason why Bill has not gone gambling at 4th and short anymore like he used to

Bill has absolutely no confidence in the secondary,if the blitz doesn't get there the secondary is exposed to the max,a blitz that doesn't get there usually results in a TD or a long completion,the same in gambling on 4th and short as it leaves the other team with a short field that they certainly will take advantage of.

Bill isn't dumb,he knows his secondary sucks ......

So instead we allow the WR all the time they need to get separation and the QB time to step up and throw.

You know there's got to be a balance of both and you surely must see we're getting it wrong.

 

[Deus Irae]

The secondary is not going to get better. They are what they are. But the front seven most certainly can...

I think it will improve this year, because I think we're going to see the three young players (Wilson, Dennard, Dowling) getting more time moving forward, and those are the three players who are most likely to have significant improvement within a 9 game stretch.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

So instead we allow the WR all the time they need to get separation and the QB time to step up and throw.

You know there's got to be a balance of both and you surely must see we're getting it wrong.

It's a double edged sword my friend

As the old saying goes,"I be damned if I do,and damned if I don't"

Don't get me wrong,I have been advocating more blitzing since 2011,but I don't think Bill believes he has the armor to do it,you have to be strong against the pass and stout against the run to become a blitzing team and be able to take chances

This is not that type of team.

 

[furry]

It's a double edged sword my friend

As the old saying goes,"I be damned if I do,and damned if I don't"

Don't get me wrong,I have been advocating more blitzing since 2011,but I don't think Bill believes he has the armor to do it,you have to be strong against the pass and stout against the run to become a blitzing team and be able to take chances

This is not that type of team.

Maybe it can be though

I don't see them in practice so I don't know what they've tried, but as has been said we seem to be around the ball a lot but just not making the plays.

I believe we can cover well for a short period of time. Maybe if we were taking those gamble and sending the OLBs or a CB more often we see QBs have a fraction less time to make the accurate throws giving our CBs more of a chance to make a play. As it stands we're already getting burned and regularly, what's to loose at this point?

Then if we can stop them holding we might be on to something!

 

[iapatsfan]

I think it will improve this year, because I think we're going to see the three young players (Wilson, Dennard, Dowling) getting more time moving forward, and those are the three players who are most likely to have significant improvement within a 9 game stretch.

Why would you expect them to have significant improvement in our system? Who was the last DB we can say showed any level of progression? When was last time you saw a New England DB, and thought "He's made some strides this offseason"? I would argue that McCourty and Chung have regressed. I would argue Arrington, at this point, appears to have regressed. He is an embarassing liability. The Seahawks almost went the length of the field purely targeting him.

When you look like the Pats did against two of the worst passing attacks in the NFL, something needs to change.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Why would you expect them to have significant improvement in our system? Who was the last DB we can say showed any level of progression? When was last time you saw a New England DB, and thought "He's made some strides this offseason"? I would argue that McCourty and Chung have regressed. I would argue Arrington, at this point, appears to have regressed. He is an embarassing liability. The Seahawks almost went the length of the field purely targeting him.

When you look like the Pats did against two of the worst passing attacks in the NFL, something needs to change.

I believe the team can't get any worse back there,so improvement is almost a given.

That said,if the team is ranked 29th right now and is ranked 26th by season end,that's an improvement,even if they are still bad.

 

[Deus Irae]

Why would you expect them to have significant improvement in our system? Who was the last DB we can say showed any level of progression? When was last time you saw a New England DB, and thought "He's made some strides this offseason"? I would argue that McCourty and Chung have regressed. I would argue Arrington, at this point, appears to have regressed. He is an embarassing liability. The Seahawks almost went the length of the field purely targeting him.

When you look like the Pats did against two of the worst passing attacks in the NFL, something needs to change.

First year players tend to improve just by repetition, and that includes Patriots first year players. It doesn't mean that they'll all do it, and it doesn't mean that they'll go from UDFA level to All Pro in the course of a game, but it's a pretty standard thing that happens regardless of talent level or team coaching ability.

 

[JoeShmoe]

It's been said before but you cant keep blaming the secondary when QB's have all day to throw and a perfect pocket to step into. Wilfork and Love are getting no inside rush whatsoever, it's only the outside rush that ever gets there

Be nice to see the pocket collapse now and then

 

[PatsSox363804]

It's been said before but you cant keep blaming the secondary when QB's have all day to throw and a perfect pocket to step into. Wilfork and Love are getting no inside rush whatsoever, it's only the outside rush that ever gets there

Be nice to see the pocket collapse now and then

Wilfork didn't force that fumble/safety yesterday?

 

[ralmat55]

I liked seeing McCourty at safety yesterday. I'm not a basher and think he's a good pro CB but believe his value to this team is greater at safety. To me, he's the one DB on the roster who has a chance to an above-average centerfielder which can cover up a lot of mistakes and allow you to tighten up coverage across the board. I also like having 3 CBs out there allowing you to still play man coverage out of your base defense when the opponent goes with 3 WRs.

Let's see what a secondary of Dennard and Dowling at corner and McCourty and Wilson at safety can do. They're young and will make a ton of mistakes, but I feel they all have the physical skills to play their positions well, and let's see how they grow or don't.

 

[Mike in 333]

If Brady was given the time in the pocket that our opponent's quarterbacks have been given we wouldn't be having this conversation and if he had as many open receivers as we allow our opponents to have we would be talking about something else. All in all, our offense isn't firing on all cylinders but it's clearly our strength and I think that as Hernandez and Boldin recover from their injuries it should improve. And it has to for us to win.
Defense? So frustrating, but I do like McCourty at safety much better than either Chung or Gregory. I think too that Dowling, Dennard and Wilson should get more more time.....after all this might be their best year if recent history is any indication.

 

[ATippett56]

How can the Pats fix their pass defense? - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[condon84]

How can the Pats fix their pass defense? - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

* The reason why? The deep pass. Teams have thrown 64 passes 16 or more yards downfield against the Patriots, the most against any team in the NFL. And they’ve been successful 45 percent of the time.

This is with the defense playing mostly a passive two safety deep zone.

 

[Deus Irae]

This is with the defense playing mostly a passive two safety deep zone.

If they weren't playing such a passive defense, they might give up big plays. :bricks:

 

[ivanvamp]

If bad QBs do this to the Pats, what will good QBs do?

Last two weeks, two of the worst QBs in the league put up terrific numbers against the Patriots:

Wilson: 16-27, 293 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 133.7 rating (24 pts scored)
Sanchez: 28-41, 328 yds, 1 td, 1 int, 90.3 rating (26 pts scored)

If these bad QBs are going to do this to the Pats' defense, what in the world would a good quarterback do?

Well, actually, we already have a pretty good idea.

P. Manning: 31-44, 337 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 115.4 rating (21 pts scored)

In other words, there's a sense out there that if Sanchez throws for 328 that a good QB would throw for like 500 against NE. But that's not the case. Last year, some bad QBs threw for big games against NE, but here's what the good QBs did:

E. Manning (SB): 30-40, 296 yds, 1 td, 0 int, 103.8 rating (21 pts scored)
E. Manning (reg): 20-39, 250 yds, 2 td, 1 int, 77.9 rating (24 pts scored)
Rivers: 29-40, 378 yds, 2 td, 2 int, 97.7 rating (21 pts scored)
Romo: 27-41, 317 yds, 1 td, 1 int, 87.1 rating (16 pts scored)
Roethlisberger: 36-50, 365 yds, 2 td, 1 int, 97.5 rating (25 pts scored)

These good QBs didn't go completely bonkers to the tune of 500 yds, 4 td, 0 int. Their numbers look remarkably similar to what the Pats gave up vs. Sanchez and Russell Wilson.

So here's the point: it seems that the Pats fare pretty much the same no matter who the opposing QB is. They'll give up around 300 yards passing and a couple of TDs, while the opposing team scores in the 20s. If the Patriots' offense can be its normal self, they'll win, but if they struggle, they'll lose.

 

[yukon cornelius]

shows that there is no transitive property in sports


its about matchups.....just because the patriots took away a seattle strength and forced them to win with the pass (which they were able to do, although the blame isn't all on the defense), it doesn't mean all is lost

 

[dannydyn]

Re: If bad QBs do this to the Pats, what will good QBs do?

I don't know if it's just me, but it appears that our defense lays eggs against mediocre/bad QBs. I think they can hold their own (relatively speaking of course) against better QBs.

Don't get me wrong, Manning still go to throw 300+ yards against us, but it seemed the defense was doing a pretty good job considering who they were facing. Same thing against the Buffalo. While Fitzpatrick is not the best QB out there, I'd put him above average.

Now, look at what happened against Kolb, Wilson, and last night against Sanchez: We looked like a monkey f**ing a football. These clowns came out bombing our secondary like the new era Montanas....

The only exception to the above was week 1 against Tennessee.... I thought they handled Locker in check.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: If bad QBs do this to the Pats, what will good QBs do?

Last two weeks, two of the worst QBs in the league put up terrific numbers against the Patriots:

Wilson: 16-27, 293 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 133.7 rating (24 pts scored)
Sanchez: 28-41, 328 yds, 1 td, 1 int, 90.3 rating (26 pts scored)

If these bad QBs are going to do this to the Pats' defense, what in the world would a good quarterback do?

Well, actually, we already have a pretty good idea.

P. Manning: 31-44, 337 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 115.4 rating (21 pts scored)

In other words, there's a sense out there that if Sanchez throws for 328 that a good QB would throw for like 500 against NE. But that's not the case. Last year, some bad QBs threw for big games against NE, but here's what the good QBs did:

E. Manning (SB): 30-40, 296 yds, 1 td, 0 int, 103.8 rating (21 pts scored)
E. Manning (reg): 20-39, 250 yds, 2 td, 1 int, 77.9 rating (24 pts scored)
Rivers: 29-40, 378 yds, 2 td, 2 int, 97.7 rating (21 pts scored)
Romo: 27-41, 317 yds, 1 td, 1 int, 87.1 rating (16 pts scored)
Roethlisberger: 36-50, 365 yds, 2 td, 1 int, 97.5 rating (25 pts scored)

These good QBs didn't go completely bonkers to the tune of 500 yds, 4 td, 0 int. Their numbers look remarkably similar to what the Pats gave up vs. Sanchez and Russell Wilson.

So here's the point: it seems that the Pats fare pretty much the same no matter who the opposing QB is. They'll give up around 300 yards passing and a couple of TDs, while the opposing team scores in the 20s. If the Patriots' offense can be its normal self, they'll win, but if they struggle, they'll lose.

Rivers had an off year last year, including an 88.7 QB rating.
Romo was at the end of a 3 game dip (70., 86.4, 87.1) when the Patriots played him.
Roethlisberger and company jumped out to an early lead and played it safe after that.
Manning was missing wide receivers (due to injury) in the regular season matchup.
Manning in the playoffs was .... in the playoffs.

None of your examples really applies. The overall point though, that the Patriots need to ride the offense, is perfectly valid. As I pointed out elsewhere, entering yesterday's game, this team was sub .500 in recent years, when scoring less than 30 points.

 

[JoeShmoe]

Wilfork didn't force that fumble/safety yesterday?

Sanchize dropped the ball on a handoff to the RB