Patriots Pregame Thread Week 5 pregame discussion: Saints @ Pats

[Stu Pidassle]

I was listening to big Joe Murray on 98.5.. the other night and he was saying that when Scott pioli left that is when alot of questionable roster decisions started being made. However right now I can't say what direction this team is headed. BB is unquestionably the GOAT HC.. as positive a fan I've been I've soured on the GM aspect.

I like Joe Murray better that the other radio trolls who just stir the pot without adding any value. This take is not really accurate, just a talking head filling air time. Pioli left in 2009. That means the team won 3 super bowls making questionable roster decisions. The real problems started after the 2019 super bowl when the team was not able to restock the skill positions on offense and let the OL go from a position of strength to a glaring weakness. A series of poor drafts under Caserio caused the talent pipeline to go dry which started the decline even before Brady left. Throwing resources at quick fixes while TB12 was here only dug the hole deeper.

 

[Real fan 02]

I like Joe Murray better that the other radio trolls who just stir the pot without adding any value. This take is not really accurate, just a talking head filling air time. Pioli left in 2009. That means the team won 3 super bowls making questionable roster decisions. The real problems started after the 2019 super bowl when the team was not able to restock the skill positions on offense and let the OL go from a position of strength to a glaring weakness. A series of poor drafts under Caserio caused the talent pipeline to go dry which started the decline even before Brady left. Throwing resources at quick fixes while TB12 was here only dug the hole deeper.

Oh I definitely agree with you. He was just alluding to the fact that during Scott's tenure there was always some to kind of challenge BBs decisions with roster decisions. You kind of need that. The voice of reason so to speak. We won 3 with Scott and 3 without him. In 2009 we just couldn't seem to draft DB.. remember all those draft bust from Tyrone Wheatley, whilhite, Darius butler.. at CB. 2017 I'd say the draft started to really come back to hurt us.. Duke Dawson, Cyrus Jones. So bad even RK himself publicly stated the drafts weren't good then. However we did recently win in 2018.. I believe BB just has so much good equity built up in the organization that he's given a long rope. However the roster decisions just aren't where they need to be in 2023 NFL standards.

 

[TheRainMaker]

It's an opinion my friend... just an opinion.. did you hear he didn't want KB back? If so can please provide anything? Thanks!

I watch a lot SF games and Bourne was a favorite target for Jimmy on 3rd downs. He played mostly slot or caught most of his passes between the hashes. He was a player that stood out and I thought he was an under the radar signing for the Pats. With that said, I think the ship has sailed for him in SF as Jauan Jennings is a good replacement.

I was listening to big Joe Murray on 98.5.. the other night and he was saying that when Scott pioli left that is when alot of questionable roster decisions started being made. However right now I can't say what direction this team is headed. BB is unquestionably the GOAT HC.. as positive a fan I've been I've soured on the GM aspect.

Surprised more people in the media don’t see it. I’ve mentioned this a few times before. There’s a correlation between the personnel decisions made via draft/FA/retaining players and how the Pats had finished. When they had drafted well, they won. When they didn’t, they had a 10 year drought. The early drafts in that 2000’s with Pioli set up the first Dynasty. However, he did have some rough years starting in 2005 to his departure. The drafts with Floyd Reese in the house (2009-2012) set up the 2nd Dynasty. The drafts after that have been awful since.

 

[SVN]

I watch a lot SF games and Bourne was a favorite target for Jimmy on 3rd downs. He played mostly slot or caught most of his passes between the hashes. He was a player that stood out and I thought he was an under the radar signing for the Pats. With that said, I think the ship has sailed for him in SF as Jauan Jennings is a good replacement.

Surprised more people in the media don’t see it. I’ve mentioned this a few times before. There’s a correlation between the personnel decisions made via draft/FA/retaining players and how the Pats had finished. When they had drafted well, they won. When they didn’t, they had a 10 year drought. The early drafts in that 2000’s with Pioli set up the first Dynasty. However, he did have some rough years starting in 2005 to his departure. The drafts with Floyd Reese in the house (2009-2012) set up the 2nd Dynasty. The drafts after that have been awful since.

i may be in the minority but i am not a bourne fan. he is decent and all but talks too much game and fails to deliver when needed. he is too undisplined with routes and cant count on him to make that hard must have it 3rd down catch a la edelman, But he believes in his mind, the game is played on paper where he was saying last week that we wll try and exploit dallas man coverage or last yr after the bills game where he questioned the approach and all.

 

[p8ryts]

i may be in the minority but i am not a bourne fan. he is decent and all but talks too much game and fails to deliver when needed. he is too undisplined with routes and cant count on him to make that hard must have it 3rd down catch a la edelman, But he believes in his mind, the game is played on paper where he was saying last week that we wll try and exploit dallas man coverage or last yr after the bills game where he questioned the approach and all.

Yes, talks a good game, plays an average game.

 

[Real fan 02]

I watch a lot SF games and Bourne was a favorite target for Jimmy on 3rd downs. He played mostly slot or caught most of his passes between the hashes. He was a player that stood out and I thought he was an under the radar signing for the Pats. With that said, I think the ship has sailed for him in SF as Jauan Jennings is a good replacement.

Surprised more people in the media don’t see it. I’ve mentioned this a few times before. There’s a correlation between the personnel decisions made via draft/FA/retaining players and how the Pats had finished. When they had drafted well, they won. When they didn’t, they had a 10 year drought. The early drafts in that 2000’s with Pioli set up the first Dynasty. However, he did have some rough years starting in 2005 to his departure. The drafts with Floyd Reese in the house (2009-2012) set up the 2nd Dynasty. The drafts after that have been awful since.

Agreed and very spot on. Yes on KB it was just looking at how he wasn't extended and had done more in his opportunity than anything Parker has done however he hasn't gotten extended.

Yes, Scott pioli is a very savy and smart football guy. He knows how to identify talent, and not Afraid to make bold roster moves. He gets forgotten sometimes. As great as BB has been he wasn't alone.

SF.. I absolutely love what they do on offense they have such a innovative, seamless and fluid offense. Everyone is involved. Ayuk in that Shanahan offense has turned into one of the leagues top WRs. Glad we don't play them this season.

 

[Real fan 02]

i may be in the minority but i am not a bourne fan. he is decent and all but talks too much game and fails to deliver when needed. he is too undisplined with routes and cant count on him to make that hard must have it 3rd down catch a la edelman, But he believes in his mind, the game is played on paper where he was saying last week that we wll try and exploit dallas man coverage or last yr after the bills game where he questioned the approach and all.

He is the most reliable WR we have.. when the offense needs a play he's typically the guys making it. He's been getting respect for DCs so he's drawing teams best CB and safeties. He needs targets and to be put in advantageous spots like he was his first season. The offense is in such dissarsy righ now. If we don't get a running game going then the entire offense will continue to struggle. We just don't have the guys who create separation outside of Douglas.

 

[Calhoun44]

I'm excited for the game tomorrow and don't give a crap about roster decisions from last year, last week or last century. The time is now to show what they can do against a very beatable team, especially when they are at home. No excuses, be professional and do the work that needs to be done to win the freaking game. This game is huge for not only the rest of the season, but also an important step for many of players if they want to stay on this roster or earn a contract extension. That was a tough loss against a really good team, they have to show themselves that they can bounce back or things might unravel. Let's Go!

 

[SVN]

He is the most reliable WR we have.. when the offense needs a play he's typically the guys making it. He's been getting respect for DCs so he's drawing teams best CB and safeties. He needs targets and to be put in advantageous spots like he was his first season. The offense is in such dissarsy righ now. If we don't get a running game going then the entire offense will continue to struggle. We just don't have the guys who create separation outside of Douglas.

I dont disagree which says a lot about the wR. But he is not consistent like edelman or james white. Its not just about getting open or drawing the CBs and safeties, its also making the toughest catches when it counts e.g the 3rd and 12 vs the eagles.

 

[SVN]

I'm excited for the game tomorrow and don't give a crap about roster decisions from last year, last week or last century. The time is now to show what they can do against a very beatable team, especially when they are at home. No excuses, be professional and do the work that needs to be done to win the freaking game. This game is huge for not only the rest of the season, but also an important step for many of players if they want to stay on this roster or earn a contract extension. That was a tough loss against a really good team, they have to show themselves that they can bounce back or things might unravel. Let's Go!

I really really hope BB went to BOB like in 2018 and said, we need to run the ball with our two best backs.

 

[Calhoun44]

I really really hope BB went to BOB like in 2018 and said, we need to run the ball with our two best backs.

I agree. Although Cam wasn't the long-term answer that season was one of my favorite seasons because I loved how they ran the hell out of the ball. My memory is terrible, but I have this memory of them running the ball in every situation (even 3rd and long) and daring teams to try to stop them. I love a power running game way more than a dynamic passing attack. I could really use a nice smash mouth football game this week.

 

[Real fan 02]

I dont disagree which says a lot about the wR. But he is not consistent like edelman or james white. Its not just about getting open or drawing the CBs and safeties, its also making the toughest catches when it counts e.g the 3rd and 12 vs the eagles.

BB always says the job of A WR is get open and catch the ball. Your right Jules and Wes were ballers! And made all the tough catches . But Jules got open, Wes got open. Especially when we played aggressive defenses like those Ravens teams. Yeah sure there are throws I'm sure KB would like back.. but your right it's telling about our WR corps. BOB is going to have to make some decisions as our veterans are not helping right now juju and Parker. Douglas has played better in limited capacity and needs an opportunity over them.

 

[Patsfan1958]

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

i may be in the minority but i am not a bourne fan. he is decent and all but talks too much game and fails to deliver when needed. he is too undisplined with routes and cant count on him to make that hard must have it 3rd down catch a la edelman, But he believes in his mind, the game is played on paper where he was saying last week that we wll try and exploit dallas man coverage or last yr after the bills game where he questioned the approach and all.

I agree. Bourne is OK, no idea why PatsFans loves him so much. Good player. Too undisciplined, not reliable enough. Hit and miss.

 

[1960Pats]

Bill can't beat either of those two, that's what's with 'em.

The truth can be a very cruel thing.

This team reminds me of the 2009 team. Doesnt seem like there is enough fight or a strong leadership. Your QB had a bad game, got kicked and slammed in the jets game etc but no one is stepping up and showing some sense or urgency or anger. Just cursorliy supporting hoping things get better. Too much soft leadership.

Wasn't 09 the year that Bill was heard on the sideline complaining to one of his coaches about not being able to get them going? This team's attitude is a notch below that. It's like they aren't listening or don't care.

 

[Thelonious]

The WR situation is fishy. Neither the old slowpokes nor the younger WR's - including Bourne and Douglas - seem well-coached: Too much uncertainty as to where they ought to be, routes cut off short, routes rounded off short of the line to gain, an so on. I'd like to be wrong abut this, because I like the guys coaching th WR's, but... it ain't good, is it?

 

[Toofy]

I just hope mac and offense dont become too careful about not turning over the ball and just become over conservative. Thats what happened to mac after the baltimore game.
BOB has been quite poor at utilizing the running game and PA. Yes there have been oline issues but listening to lazar and other folks this was BOB's problem in alabama too. not using the running game much.

Unfortunately that's whats gonna happen.

10 yard + passes reserved for Henry and Bourne and possibly Douglas.

If that be the case we should just bench Parker and JuJu and give their reps to Boutte and gesicki. I feel we are not playing the right players .

 

[Toofy]

I agree. Bourne is OK, no idea why PatsFans loves him so much. Good player. Too undisciplined, not reliable enough. Hit and miss.

Just think who else we have and you will understand ...

Man ! We miss Meyers a lotttttt

 

[Thelonious]

I'm excited for the game tomorrow and don't give a crap about roster decisions from last year, last week or last century. The time is now to show what they can do against a very beatable team, especially when they are at home. No excuses, be professional and do the work that needs to be done to win the freaking game. This game is huge for not only the rest of the season, but also an important step for many of players if they want to stay on this roster or earn a contract extension. That was a tough loss against a really good team, they have to show themselves that they can bounce back or things might unravel. Let's Go!

No question this is an important game and that they should try to "bounce back." The question is do they have the players and the coaching to accomplish this? I hope they win, and I'll root for them to do so, but I don't think they will. Given the sub-par start, nearly all the games going forward will be "must-win" or nearly so, but all the sense of urgency, fan support, hopeful takes, etc, in the world don't matter if you lack the resources needed to win. No one likes a gratuitously negative take, but in this case, a negative take and a realistic take are one in the same. I don't think they are going to win enough games to be relevant this year, so I'm concentrating on what can be accomplished over the next couple of years, in part because there is reason to hope we might actually get competitive in that time frame. Hoping we can work our way back to relevance this year isn't a hopeful take at all: it is a take doomed to disappointment, and any expectation this team can succeed this year at all doesn't "support" the team: it just imposes on them expectations they have no chance of meeting.

 

[Brotherblues]

No question this is an important game and that they should try to "bounce back." The question is do they have the players and the coaching to accomplish this? I hope they win, and I'll root for them to do so, but I don't think they will. Given the sub-par start, nearly all the games going forward will be "must-win" or nearly so, but all the sense of urgency, fan support, hopeful takes, etc, in the world don't matter if you lack the resources needed to win. No one likes a gratuitously negative take, but in this case, a negative take and a realistic take are one in the same. I don't think they are going to win enough games to be relevant this year, so I'm concentrating on what can be accomplished over the next couple of years, in part because there is reason to hope we might actually get competitive in that time frame. Hoping we can work our way back to relevance this year isn't a hopeful take at all: it is a take doomed to disappointment, and any expectation this team can succeed this year at all doesn't "support" the team: it just imposes on them expectations they have no chance of meeting.

I'm pretty confident they'll take this one. Classic case of bouncing back against a subpar opponent to give us false hope. Seen it enough times the last 4 years to sense the next one coming.