We’re onto Miami

[Hyped]

Dorsett is getting no separation. My question is, why? Terrible footwork? Can't sell a fake? Slow change-of-direction? Trots through cuts?

He is fast enough, at least in straight line speed, to beat a lot of CBs. It ain't happening though. Maybe someone who's watched more all-22 replays can answer why.

IMO, it's the play calling on both ends (McD and the opposition's DC). From what I have seen, Dorsett is basically running into coverage. It is that or Dorsett isn't picking the correct option route at the top of his route tree.

 

[Jackson 2]

How are we going to stop a 100% healthy Danny Amendola?

He's a ****y...

 

[Soliel]

Adolph Hitler is alive and well living in miami

 

[PP2]

It’s only fair to include his entire body of work. Saying he’s ideally suited to be a #4 (which I’ll agree on) is damning with faint praise. Especially when you consider that the team clearly had bigger hopes in mind with how they used him during TC and the preseason.

He didn't really see the field last year- definitely not anywhere as much as he is seeing it now and he's made tremendous progress. This is not an easy offense to fit in, but he is progressing very well for someone in their 2nd year.

Lest we forget, Edelman in his first three years, had exactly one receiving touchdown.

 

[Tapats]

Injuries are really piling up

Why not trade the bulk of next years draft especially the high picks right now for good nfl talented vets. All of our injured rookies can come back next year and be in essence the 2019 draft picks.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Funny (or not so funny) that after all these years the tables are turning on the Patriots - it seemed every year all the other teams made playing the patriots their super bowl where they got up for the game and played extra hard to win.

This week's game the Patriots are in it like its a super bowl or a game they must win - even though its only week 4 ,if they lose this game the division is in full control of Miami and even the playoffs would be an uphill climb at 1-3 - this game coming up either makes the division tight again or finds the pats in the cellar looking far up and 3 1/2 games back.

Might be the biggest early regular season game in the BB/Brady era and I am hoping they are ready for a tough game and actually show up with heart this time.

 

[captain stone]

I don't think we're projecting him to be a #1, but rather (and hopefully) to be Amendola's replacement, working primarily out of the slot. I think he's ideally suited to be a #3/4, and that's my metric for not rating him a bust.

Phill S Dorsett isn't even a #3/4; he's a #5/6...at best. Utterly useless crap. And don't even bother throwing him the ball if any DB is near him, because that's an incompletion waiting to happen. I can't remember the last time (besides the Lost Little Cookie, of course) I've seen a WR so completely, shamefully, gutlessly Non-competitive in a contested catch situation. Brandon Lloyd maybe?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Phill S Dorsett isn't even a #3/4; he's a #5/6...at best. Utterly useless crap. And don't even bother throwing him the ball if any DB is near him, because that's an incompletion waiting to happen. I can't remember the last time (besides the Lost Little Cookie, of course) I've seen a WR so completely, shamefully, gutlessly Non-competitive in a contested catch situation. Brandon Lloyd maybe?

Lloyd wasn’t bad at catching contested passes; it was his lack of YAC that annoyed everyone. I didn’t like Lloyd much, but right now I wish we I was complaining about a guy like that. Much better than not being able to get the ball to begin with.

I agree about Dorsett. Between him and Patterson, simply playing man coverage - so they aren’t finding a huge seam in a zone - is easily enough to shut them down. Nothing else needed. They don’t even need to put a good corner on either of them, and they just save that guy for Hogan.

 

[luuked]

So before I begin to take this post apart, a simple yes or no question: Did you see any sort of separation from Dorsett anywhere on that route before the safety took him? Yes or no?

You are just making Brady’s decision worse and worse with every word that you are writing.

This narrative of nobody getting open and Brady having to throw desperation balls is so lazy especially in the light of how he has missed Dorsett with over and underthrows when he had separation or was open in the last two games.

 

[SVN]

 

[TomPatriot]

Your are just making Brady’s decision worse and worse with every word that you are writing.

This narrative of nobody getting open and Brady having to throw desperation balls is so lazy especially in the light of how he has missed Dorsett with over and underthrows when he had separation or was open in the last two games.

Patterson is getting separation at times. He’s just not getting the ball.

 

[PP2]

This is what I'm fearing they'll throw at us, as I mentioned. We are just bad at the lateral game, defensively.

 

[goheels22002]

Funny (or not so funny) that after all these years the tables are turning on the Patriots - it seemed every year all the other teams made playing the patriots their super bowl where they got up for the game and played extra hard to win.

This week's game the Patriots are in it like its a super bowl or a game they must win - even though its only week 4 ,if they lose this game the division is in full control of Miami and even the playoffs would be an uphill climb at 1-3 - this game coming up either makes the division tight again or finds the pats in the cellar looking far up and 3 1/2 games back.

Might be the biggest early regular season game in the BB/Brady era and I am hoping they are ready for a tough game and actually show up with heart this time.

The Patriots need to go on a run at home starting on Sunday.

The Dolphins offense is good, not great. The main issue is the Patriots offense. The offense has to put together 1st half drives to help their depleted defense. Three consecutive 3-and-outs is suicide. McDaniels is on the hot seat.

 

[luuked]

McDaniels is on the hot seat.

lol

 

[Kontradiction]

Your are just making Brady’s decision worse and worse with every word that you are writing.

This narrative of nobody getting open and Brady having to throw desperation balls is so lazy especially in the light of how he has missed Dorsett with over and underthrows when he had separation or was open in the last two games.

Yeah, I didn't see Dorsett with any separation at any point in that route either. Even before the safety picked him up. Therein lies the problem. All that world class speed and he can't consistently get separation outside the sticks or on the deeper routes. More on this post in a minute.

lol

The only thing this INT showed was that Brady let his frustration have the better of him and made one his worst decisions (and throws) of the last 8 years.

Actually, going back to 2002, Brady has routinely made these throws with under coverage where the defense has successfully choked off everything underneath. The attempt at trying to be a mind-reader here (where you're really just parroting Lazar and other people that broke down the film in the media) is what there really is to lol about. Go back and look at that one and some of the similar throws that he's made over the years and you'll find one thing in common - nobody is open that he trusts to be where they need to be underneath. So he effectively lets it loose in the hopes that his guy can go up and retrieve it up top. If they don't, the hope is that it loosens up the defense and forces another safety deep.

But lets blame the guy in double coverage running his route for the trash throw of his QB.

And again dont give me any of the “nobody is getting open” crap because Brady himself is directly responsible for at least 4 3rd down failures with either inaccurate throws to OPEN WRs and questionable decisions.

The throw to Dorsett where he "sailed" the ball on him was clearly a route where Brady was expecting Dorsett to cut at least 4-5 yards deeper than he did. Brady is well known for throwing the ball low on receivers where the route breaks over the middle of the field so as not to get them killed. Yet, this time the throw was high where Dorsett could have absorbed a kill shot. You can either choose to believe one of two things:

1. Brady has just lost it when it comes to ball placement on those routes.

2. Dorsett was not where Brady expected him to be.

I'll choose to go with option 2 on that one and side with the GOAT, one of the most accurate quarterbacks in NFL history, over Dorsett there. Another fun fact - Brady had the highest QB rating in Week 2 against the Jaguars going back to last year (when they found themselves on defense) than any other QB had against them. And yet the offense was only able to muster 20 points (10 of which came in the 4th quarter). That salient fact alone shows that your analysis of Brady's play doesn't hold water. So why that fact when the offense couldn't move the ball? Because nobody was consistently getting open outside of outlets to White. I was at that game. Had a bird's eye view of it. Dorsett rarely separated, Hogan rarely separated, and Patterson rarely separated. Once the Jags were sure they had a handle on Gronk, they rolled coverage to whatever side of the field White was operating out of and the Patriots were dead in the water.

And before you once again go on a tangent about how I am blaming Brady for the loss let me make clear that he didnt have a bigger role in it than any other player. But pretending that life for him is soo unfair because he is doing all he can while nobody is getting open at all is a fairy tale. He made mistakes that could have easily extended drives the same way many other players did. And I am sure he got an earful from the coaching staff for it.

But you clearly are. You just know better than to say it. You've harped on his play wrongly since the wake of the Jags games and have done everything you can to excuse the turd sandwich he's been dished out at WR by the guy that evaluates the personnel. But when you've never been critical of that guy in your entire posting history here, it shouldn't come as a surprise. Back to your last post...

Your are just making Brady’s decision worse and worse with every word that you are writing.

This narrative of nobody getting open and Brady having to throw desperation balls is so lazy especially in the light of how he has missed Dorsett with over and underthrows when he had separation or was open in the last two games.

Actually, the narrative of Brady playing badly is what's ultimately lazy here. I know you weren't here for it, but there were two other seasons in which this narrative took place only to be proven wrong - 2006 and 2013. Could you tell me what this season (so far) and those other two seasons have in common? And that's a rhetorical question. We both know what the answer to that question is. 2006 ended with a complete overhaul of the WR position as a result. 2013 saw a similar overhaul with LaFell brought in and the team moving away from Thompkins and Dobson.

But lets get you on record. When Edelman comes back, how many times do you think Brady is going to overthrow or underthrow him? Do you think it's going to be similar to the amount of times he missed Patterson or Dorsett? Because I certainly don't. Why? Because Edelman is going to be where Brady needs him to be, when he needs him to be. But what say you?

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

The Patriots need to go on a run at home starting on Sunday.

The Dolphins offense is good, not great. The main issue is the Patriots offense. The offense has to put together 1st half drives to help their depleted defense. Three consecutive 3-and-outs is suicide. McDaniels is on the hot seat.

McDaniels is far from being on the hot seat - Kraft absolutely loves this guy and one of the reasons why he was pried away from going to the Colts - McDaniels is your next head coach in Foxboro unless Belichick sticks around another 5 or more years which I doubt

I am not a McDaniels fan,never was and never will be,I do hope the next coach brings new life to the team once this era has passed and keeps the team competitive for the near future.

 

[luuked]

Yeah, I didn't see Dorsett with any separation at any point in that route either. Even before the safety picked him up. Therein lies the problem. All that world class speed and he can't consistently get separation outside the sticks or on the deeper routes. More on this post in a minute.



Actually, going back to 2002, Brady has routinely made these throws with under coverage where the defense has successfully choked off everything underneath. The attempt at trying to be a mind-reader here (where you're really just parroting Lazar and other people that broke down the film in the media) is what there really is to lol about. Go back and look at that one and some of the similar throws that he's made over the years and you'll find one thing in common - nobody is open that he trusts to be where they need to be underneath. So he effectively lets it loose in the hopes that his guy can go up and retrieve it up top. If they don't, the hope is that it loosens up the defense and forces another safety deep.



The throw to Dorsett where he "sailed" the ball on him was clearly a route where Brady was expecting Dorsett to cut at least 4-5 yards deeper than he did. Brady is well known for throwing the ball low on receivers where the route breaks over the middle of the field so as not to get them killed. Yet, this time the throw was high where Dorsett could have absorbed a kill shot. You can either choose to believe one of two things:

1. Brady has just lost it when it comes to ball placement on those routes.

2. Dorsett was not where Brady expected him to be.

I'll choose to go with option 2 on that one and side with the GOAT, one of the most accurate quarterbacks in NFL history, over Dorsett there. Another fun fact - Brady had the highest QB rating in Week 2 against the Jaguars going back to last year (when they found themselves on defense) than any other QB had against them. And yet the offense was only able to muster 20 points (10 of which came in the 4th quarter). That salient fact alone shows that your analysis of Brady's play doesn't hold water. So why that fact when the offense couldn't move the ball? Because nobody was consistently getting open outside of outlets to White. I was at that game. Had a bird's eye view of it. Dorsett rarely separated, Hogan rarely separated, and Patterson rarely separated. Once the Jags were sure they had a handle on Gronk, they rolled coverage to whatever side of the field White was operating out of and the Patriots were dead in the water.



But you clearly are. You just know better than to say it. You've harped on his play wrongly since the wake of the Jags games and have done everything you can to excuse the turd sandwich he's been dished out at WR by the guy that evaluates the personnel. But when you've never been critical of that guy in your entire posting history here, it shouldn't come as a surprise. Back to your last post...



Actually, the narrative of Brady playing badly is what's ultimately lazy here. I know you weren't here for it, but there were two other seasons in which this narrative took place only to be proven wrong - 2006 and 2013. Could you tell me what this season (so far) and those other two seasons have in common? And that's a rhetorical question. We both know what the answer to that question is. 2006 ended with a complete overhaul of the WR position as a result. 2013 saw a similar overhaul with LaFell brought in and the team moving away from Thompkins and Dobson.

But lets get you on record. When Edelman comes back, how many times do you think Brady is going to overthrow or underthrow him? Do you think it's going to be similar to the amount of times he missed Patterson or Dorsett? Because I certainly don't. Why? Because Edelman is going to be where Brady needs him to be, when he needs him to be. But what say you?

Write all you want, the reality is that Brady had now two games in a row where he missed some open receivers. He had them and missed.

And thats fine, those things happen nobody is perfect. But there is also no need to claim that no one is getting open when tape clearly shows open players which could have easily extended some of the drives.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Patterson is getting separation at times. He’s just not getting the ball.

Patterson and Dorsett are jokes as starting WRs in the NFL - lets face it even deep down inside the homiest of homers know that both these guys are 4th or even 5th depth WRs on most teams in the NFL - I found it absolutely nuts that WR has come down to this as Brady's career fades - Hopefully Edelman will not have lost a step and Gordon will play like his talents show on the rare times hes on the right side of the law to improve what this team currently puts on a football field on offense and save a laughable WR corps from further destruction.

 

[Kontradiction]

Dorsett was double-covered on that route and that certainly wasn't Brady's best effort or judgment.

But that still ducks the question, "what percentage of Dorsett's routes have been deep compared to Cooks? And what percentage have been more like Amendola's typical routes?" The point being that, if they have Dorsett running mostly Amendola-type routes, then clearly the Pats are NOT "relying on him to be Cooks' replacement."

Who else was open underneath on that throw? Go back and look. Nothing. The choice is to let it loose after that and shake up the under coverage, as I mentioned to luuked in the last post. Give your guy a chance to go up and get it and if he doesn't, the hope is to loosen up the defense and make them align another safety deep.

He's been running Amendola routes regularly? Seems to me that he's been running mostly RB-type routes, and running them well enough to get open.

He's been running mostly routes 1-4 in the route tree from what I've observed. That's what I said prior to the season as well. Reason being is because his route running has always been suspect at best. So this observation from you plays into my point that he can't be trusted to run more routes and needs to be limited. That begs the question of why you think he's getting open. The defense also knows this from film study and can simply squat on those routes. So why is Tom freezing him out? Is it because he's mean? Or is it because he doesn't trust Patterson and hasn't trusted him since TC and knows that if Patterson can't be where Brady needs him to be, the chances of an INT go up?

Before missing three games for the Browns last season with a knee issue, Britt missed only one game in his three years with the Rams, and it wasn't due to injury. Yes, he had relatively frequent injury issues back when he was still with the Titans (six years ago now), but at some point, those issues lose their predictive value wrt future injuries when there's been an extended period without significant injury.

He came to the Patriots already dealing with a knee issue and missed two games in 2017 with a groin injury. He was then banged up in camp. Given all that plus prior injury history plus age, the Patriots should have (rightly) known that Britt would not be the answer and chosen to do more at the position to bolster it. Not only did they have FA and trades, they also had the draft at their disposal. And yet they chose to rely on a guy that had just missed all of last season and has a history of chronic knee issues and a guy that's deemed a high injury risk on the wrong side of 30. And this was supposed to make me feel better about them doing all they could (supposedly) at the position... how?

The Pats currently have $3.55M in cap space. If we pretend that Britt and Matthews (and Gordon) had never happened, that erases Gordon's $700k and $575k in dead money (all except Mitchell). That brings the Pats up to $4.8M in cap space. So, how would they have been able to afford any of the contracts signed by the players you've listed? What - specifically - could they have done (or not done) to have had enough (or ANY) cap space at this point after having agreed to one of those contracts?

Brown's contract (a 1 year deal) is right up the Patriots' alley and would be an improvement upon whoever they currently have at the position now. Furthermore, you act as if the draft doesn't exist and you also act like the Patriots don't have a history of restructuring contracts to increase cap space.

Complacent? Britt wasn't injured until the end of June. Who could they have signed after that? Maybe they kept their hopes that Mitchell would recover alive too long, but they still had a healthy Matthews for the first week of Camp. Who was available to acquire after that (who was affordable)?

The problem is relying on Britt after he missed games last season and was on the wrong side of 30 and relying on Mitchell. They should not have done that. So yes, they were complacent.

Yup. If either of Britt or Matthews is healthy, there's no need for Gordon and we're not having this discussion.

Or if the team had chosen to do more at the position when it had the chance to do so, there would be no need for Gordon. The fact is that they didn't. They went the cheap route and made some curious decisions in the draft and it came back to bite them. Now they're 1-2 with the tape showing WRs who are having trouble separating from man which led them to take a shot on a guy that's one more strike from a lifetime ban that they would have never touched with a 10 foot pole otherwise.

It was never about "bargain hunting". It was about taking their best shot with the caps space they knew they'd have available to spend.

It was absolutely about bargain hunting. Again, they also had the draft at their disposal as well.

The Pats WR corps "as it's currently constructed" had only THREE viable members before Gordon was acquired (and we don't yet know if Gordon is actually viable). Yeah, I think that's worse than WR corps that have four or five viable members - especially when the receiving TE misses 2 of 3 games, the #1RB tears an ACL in the first game, and the rookie draft pick can't catch a pass to save his life.

And those viable members are a guy with all the speed in the world that can't get open near the sticks or on deeper routes, a guy with a limited route tree because his route running leaves a lot to be desired, and a guy who is at best a #3 playing as a #1. Out... standing. The result is that the team is now 1-2, statistically one of the worst teams in the league (for now... I expect that to change), and is in a must-win game in Week 4.

Again ... either Britt or Matthews ... no problem. Life is what happens while you're making other plans. I really don't see any realistic woulda-coulda-shoulda on BB's part that would have made a significant difference.

I'm not blaming the team for Matthews. That's just simply bad luck. It is what it is. But where are you getting "Britt... no problem" from? What did he, and over 30 year old WR with a history of injuries and locker room problems, do in his two catches and 23 yards gained in 2017 that inspires that kind of confidence?

 

[Kdo5]

Patterson and Dorsett are jokes as starting WRs in the NFL - lets face it even deep down inside the homiest of homers know that both these guys are 4th or even 5th depth WRs on most teams in the NFL - I found it absolutely nuts that WR has come down to this as Brady's career fades - Hopefully Edelman will not have lost a step and Gordon will play like his talents show on the rare times hes on the right side of the law to improve what this team currently puts on a football field on offense and save a laughable WR corps from further destruction.

Dorsett and Patterson blow. Dorsett has now been here for over a season and I have yet to see any substantial progress in the games. I've heard that he has made strides but where are they?

Has he had any more than one game here where caught more than one or two balls? Even the guys who have been (rightfully) **** on over the years (Caldwell and Dobson) were able to make plays and have good games. And Philip Dorsett has not been even a 1/4th as effective of those guys were at times.

Yet we still have people telling us that PD is coming along great. Maybe he'll get better once defenses stop paying attention to him but yes he is a #4 at best.