We’re onto Miami

[Uptown]

 

[Uptown]

Welp..

 

[italian pat patriot]

The other guy that needs to play is Derek Rivers. Annoyed he hasn’t played a single snap of football yet.

He was on the field @ Det

 

[italian pat patriot]

Brown and shelton need to play better and stop the run to win. Otherwise we have no chance, no matter what the offense does

MUCH MORE better...

 

[maineman209]

The bad decisions were relying on Dorsett to be the Cooks replacement even though there has been literally nothing at this point in his career to show that he was capable of that, signing Patterson at all since his route running is substandard let alone relying on him to replace Amendola’s production, and not seeing injury potentials from a mile away with Britt and Mitchell in spite of the fact that they both have very checkered injury histories going back to college. I mean a lot of us saw that prior to the season but the coaching staff didn’t? Come on now. They didn’t do enough at the position. They know this. The devil is in the details and those details were the amount of scrap heap, chuck-it-at-the-wall-and-see-if-it-sticks transactions at the position before the ultimate desperation move of bringing in Gordon. But they should have done more and the fact that they didn’t has cost them two games now. You can’t give BB the lion’s share of the credit when things are going well without giving him the lion’s share of the blame when they don’t. That’s not the way it works.

Who says that the Pats are actually relying on Dorsett to be the "Cooks replacement", or that they ever intended to? Has he been running primarily Cooks-type routes and failing miserably? Or has he been running routes mostly at the underneath and intermediate level (Edelman/Amendola range)? He has an 86% catch rate on 4.7 tgts/game at a ypc of 9.2. That's where Brady has been getting him the ball, and it most definitely was NOT in Cooks' wheelhouse last season.

Anyway, in spite of all the other issues on offense, Dorsett is currently on pace for a 60+ catch/600-yard/5 TD season - basically, one of Amendola's best seasons.

So then, who says that the Pats were relying on Patterson to replace Amendola's production?
-----

WRT Patterson, he's catching over 70% of what's thrown his way. Tape has shown that he's been wide open, and in Brady's field of vision, on numerous other plays where he wasn't targeted and Brady tried to force the ball to Hogan instead. Patterson has been getting open and has clearly demonstrated that he can catch. How "substandard" can his route-running possibly be?
-----

The Pats "should have known" that Britt, Matthews and Mitchell wouldn't have been healthy enough to make the roster? They should have "done more"? Could they have? Okay, then we should list the WR possibilities they "skipped" - by name.

Who was available - among those WRs who had a more acceptable injury history, AND an acceptable production history?
Who was available to the Pats to sign and during what time frame?
How much would they have likely cost against the cap (currently at $3.55M)?


WRT "time frame", here's the injury chronology:

The Pats didn't finally give up on Mitchell until Aug 6th.

Matthews didn't injure his hammy until the start of the 2nd week of Camp. The Pats signed Decker immediately afterward, on Aug. 3rd (the first "desperation signing", I suppose. Matthews wasn't released until Aug. 7th (with an IR settlement). As of 10 days ago, he was still in the Boston area, working out with Edelman at BC. He tried out and signed with Philly on Sept. 19th.

Britt was still rehabbing and trying to get back to practice as late as Aug. 20th (released Aug. 22nd, just 10 days before cutdowns).

The rest of the "desperation signings" happened after cutdowns, when there were more players available to choose from. They included Darboh, Hansen, Fowler and Coleman.

What were their other realistic opportunities (given cap constraints).

BTW ... Gordon ... was that a "desperation acquisition"? Or was it an "opportunistic" one?

WRT "cap hit" constraints, here's what Mitchell, Matthews and Britt would've cost had they been healthy and kept on the roster:

-- Mitchell's cap hit would've been ~$700k. His release left $144k in dead money, plus whatever his grievance settlement was for.
-- Matthews' cap hit would have been around $700k. His release left $300k in dead money.
-- Britt's cap hit would have been something like $1.2M. He left behind $200k in dead money.
-- Decker's dead money is around $75k, IIRC

Josh Gordon's net cap hit to the Pats is $700k, which wouldn't have happened if any two of Mitchell/Matthews/Britt had been healthy.

 

[maineman209]

We'll see. Edelman coming back by itself (to make no mention of Gordon) will make life easier on all of the wideouts. I personally think Dorsett is a bust but he should have more room to operate with Edelman in the line-up. If he still doesn't produce, cut him loose in the offseason.

Dorsett has caught 12 of 14 this season (86%) for 110 yards (behind only Gronk and White) and a TD. How is he a "bust"?

 

[maineman209]

The other guy that needs to play is Derek Rivers. Annoyed he hasn’t played a single snap of football yet.

River played 13 snaps Sunday night. Didn't register any stats.

Yes, it's annoying that, in spite of our expectations, he apparently hasn't been good enough yet to play more than that.

 

[maineman209]

Two more to IR. Just what we needed!

 

[1960Pats]

Eh, they haven't exactly played a murderer's row.

Their opponents' record is the same as ours.

The team with the real pancake schedule has been the Rams, who played the 0-3 Raiders, 0-3 Cards and 1-2 Chargers

 

[Kontradiction]

Who says that the Pats are actually relying on Dorsett to be the "Cooks replacement", or that they ever intended to? Has he been running primarily Cooks-type routes and failing miserably? Or has he been running routes mostly at the underneath and intermediate level (Edelman/Amendola range)? He has an 86% catch rate on 4.7 tgts/game at a ypc of 9.2. That's where Brady has been getting him the ball, and it most definitely was NOT in Cooks' wheelhouse last season.

Brady has only been ABLE to get him the ball on the shorter routes because he can't get separation on the deeper ones. The INT on Sunday night shows that.

So then, who says that the Pats were relying on Patterson to replace Amendola's production?
-----

Because Patterson has been tasked with more of the routes that Amendola used to run here. Have you seen him attempt a 7-9 route yet?

WRT Patterson, he's catching over 70% of what's thrown his way. Tape has shown that he's been wide open, and in Brady's field of vision, on numerous other plays where he wasn't targeted and Brady tried to force the ball to Hogan instead. Patterson has been getting open and has clearly demonstrated that he can catch. How "substandard" can his route-running possibly be?
-----

Very. And that's a knock on him going back to Tennessee. Brady ignores him even though he's "wide open" and it's been widely commented, most recently by Lombardi today, that it's because Brady doesn't trust him. There are reports going back to training camp that Brady froze him out because he doesn't trust Patterson to be where Brady expects him to be on the field. That's because Patterson's routes have never been precise which makes him a horrible fit in the EP.

The Pats "should have known" that Britt, Matthews and Mitchell wouldn't have been healthy enough to make the roster? They should have "done more"? Could they have? Okay, then we should list the WR possibilities they "skipped" - by name.

Britt and Mitchell. Mitchell just missed the entire year last year and struggled with even getting on the field early in camp. Britt has had a checkered injury history. I give them a pass on Matthews because that's the only one that truly came out of leftfield (hence, why I didn't mention him in my previous post).

Who was available - among those WRs who had a more acceptable injury history, AND an acceptable production history?
Who was available to the Pats to sign and during what time frame?
How much would they have likely cost against the cap (currently at $3.55M)?

Off the top of my head and verifying the numbers after that:

• John Brown (1 Yr/$5M)
• Michael Crabtree (3 Yrs/$21M)
• Allen Hurns (2 Yrs/$12M)
• Sammy Watkins (3 Yrs/$48M)
• Albert Wilson (3 Yrs/$24M)

Of all of them, everything considered, I would prefer Brown, Hurns (I think he would be good with Brady throwing him the ball), and Wilson. The Patriots instead went the bargain basement route. And that's not even mentioning the draft.

WRT "time frame", here's the injury chronology:

The Pats didn't finally give up on Mitchell until Aug 6th.

Matthews didn't injure his hammy until the start of the 2nd week of Camp. The Pats signed Decker immediately afterward, on Aug. 3rd (the first "desperation signing", I suppose. Matthews wasn't released until Aug. 7th (with an IR settlement). As of 10 days ago, he was still in the Boston area, working out with Edelman at BC. He tried out and signed with Philly on Sept. 19th.

Britt was still rehabbing and trying to get back to practice as late as Aug. 20th (released Aug. 22nd, just 10 days before cutdowns).

The rest of the "desperation signings" happened after cutdowns, when there were more players available to choose from. They included Darboh, Hansen, Fowler and Coleman.

What were their other realistic opportunities (given cap constraints).

Ah, so they were complacent then.

BTW ... Gordon ... was that a "desperation acquisition"? Or was it an "opportunistic" one?

I would say both, however I don't think they touch him with a ten foot pole if the WR position is adequately manned.

WRT "cap hit" constraints, here's what Mitchell, Matthews and Britt would've cost had they been healthy and kept on the roster:

-- Mitchell's cap hit would've been ~$700k. His release left $144k in dead money, plus whatever his grievance settlement was for.
-- Matthews' cap hit would have been around $700k. His release left $300k in dead money.
-- Britt's cap hit would have been something like $1.2M. He left behind $200k in dead money.
-- Decker's dead money is around $75k, IIRC

If they can play, they're a bargain. The problem comes that they couldn't play and there was never really any indication that they were going to be healthy enough to do so. Now it's both a sunk cost and a wasted cost with the dead cap hits. Meanwhile, the WR corps as its currently constructed, is still among the worst in the NFL.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[PP2]

Brady has only been ABLE to get him the ball on the shorter routes because he can't get separation on the deeper ones. The INT on Sunday night shows that.




Because Patterson has been tasked with more of the routes that Amendola used to run here. Have you seen him attempt a 7-9 route yet?



Very. And that's a knock on him going back to Tennessee. Brady ignores him even though he's "wide open" and it's been widely commented, most recently by Lombardi today, that it's because Brady doesn't trust him. There are reports going back to training camp that Brady froze him out because he doesn't trust Patterson to be where Brady expects him to be on the field. That's because Patterson's routes have never been precise which makes him a horrible fit in the EP.



Britt and Mitchell. Mitchell just missed the entire year last year and struggled with even getting on the field early in camp. Britt has had a checkered injury history. I give them a pass on Matthews because that's the only one that truly came out of leftfield (hence, why I didn't mention him in my previous post).



Off the top of my head and verifying the numbers after that:

• John Brown (1 Yr/$5M)
• Michael Crabtree (3 Yrs/$21M)
• Allen Hurns (2 Yrs/$12M)
• Sammy Watkins (3 Yrs/$48M)
• Albert Wilson (3 Yrs/$24M)

Of all of them, everything considered, I would prefer Brown, Hurns (I think he would be good with Brady throwing him the ball), and Wilson. The Patriots instead went the bargain basement route. And that's not even mentioning the draft.



Ah, so they were complacent then.



I would say both, however I don't think they touch him with a ten foot pole if the WR position is adequately manned.



If they can play, they're a bargain. The problem comes that they couldn't play and there was never really any indication that they were going to be healthy enough to do so. Now it's both a sunk cost and a wasted cost with the dead cap hits. Meanwhile, the WR corps as its currently constructed, is still among the worst in the NFL.

Dude, Dorsett is far from being a bust. Only White has been targeted more times than Dorsett (20 to 19). Dorsett is also only behind White and Gronk in receptions (White 14, Gronk 13, and Dorsett at 12. So he's right in the mix.

Hogan, meanwhile isn't doing very well. He's 7 of 14.

Brady's long ball has never been his strong suit. It's hard to pin it on Dorsett when he was doubled on both deep throws in the Detroit game (IIRC).

 

[SHOWTIME15]

River played 13 snaps Sunday night. Didn't register any stats.

Yes, it's annoying that, in spite of our expectations, he apparently hasn't been good enough yet to play more than that.

Thanks! I guess he was invisible against Detroit. Was hoping he could come in and help our pass rush right away.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Dude, Dorsett is far from being a bust. Only White has been targeted more times than Dorsett (20 to 19). Dorsett is also only behind White and Gronk in receptions (White 14, Gronk 13, and Dorsett at 12. So he's right in the mix.

Hogan, meanwhile isn't doing very well. He's 7 of 14.

Brady's long ball has never been his strong suit. It's hard to pin it on Dorsett when he was doubled on both deep throws in the Detroit game (IIRC).

Dorsett was also open on the first drive and Brady didn’t see him.

 

[PP2]

What concerns me is how Miami uses their WRs on jet sweep/tap passes to create a lot of action on the outside and that's going to exploit our kryptonite which has been setting the edge. The action on the outside sets up their IZ run game. We'll be stretched thin up front.

It's going to be a battle- Gase finally has the right culture instilled where players are held accountable.

 

[Kontradiction]

Dude, Dorsett is far from being a bust. Only White has been targeted more times than Dorsett (20 to 19). Dorsett is also only behind White and Gronk in receptions (White 14, Gronk 13, and Dorsett at 12. So he's right in the mix.

Hogan, meanwhile isn't doing very well. He's 7 of 14.

Brady's long ball has never been his strong suit. It's hard to pin it on Dorsett when he was doubled on both deep throws in the Detroit game (IIRC).

So far, he's had a total of 24 receptions for 304 yards in 18 games. That averages out to just over 1 reception per game for 17 yards per game and completely disappeared Sunday night. You can call him a bust or you can call him what you want, but he's been a disappointment. Someone with his speed should be getting open on deeper routes with more consistency.

 

[FCB02062]

Miami only giving up 17 ppg, 3.3 yards per carry...why even bother trying to run the ball Sunday. Put the ball in your best player's hands - Brady - and let him throw it 60 times. I'm serious.

 

[PP2]

So far, he's had a total of 24 receptions for 304 yards in 18 games. That averages out to just over 1 reception per game for 17 yards per game and completely disappeared Sunday night. You can call him a bust or you can call him what you want, but he's been a disappointment. Someone with his speed should be getting open on deeper routes with more consistency.

Well I see you're choosing to include last year where he never had the benefit of TC or preseason. Not sure that's fair.

I don't think we're projecting him to be a #1, but rather (and hopefully) to be Amendola's replacement, working primarily out of the slot. I think he's ideally suited to be a #3/4, and that's my metric for not rating him a bust.

 

[1960Pats]

I sure hope the Pats are onto Miami.

 

[Mack Herron]

 

[luuked]

Brady has only been ABLE to get him the ball on the shorter routes because he can't get separation on the deeper ones. The INT on Sunday night shows that.

lol

The only thing this INT showed was that Brady let his frustration have the better of him and made one his worst decisions (and throws) of the last 8 years.

But lets blame the guy in double coverage running his route for the trash throw of his QB.

And again dont give me any of the “nobody is getting open” crap because Brady himself is directly responsible for at least 4 3rd down failures with either inaccurate throws to OPEN WRs and questionable decisions.

And before you once again go on a tangent about how I am blaming Brady for the loss let me make clear that he didnt have a bigger role in it than any other player. But pretending that life for him is soo unfair because he is doing all he can while nobody is getting open at all is a fairy tale. He made mistakes that could have easily extended drives the same way many other players did. And I am sure he got an earful from the coaching staff for it.