Was Our Passing Personnel Better In 2021? Was Our Running Game? Our Defense?

[mgteich]

Folks seem to think that we will win about FIVE fewer games than in 2021? Where is our team son much worse in 2024?

Yes, we had Josh, yes, we had Josh.
======================
Is our passing personnel that ,?
Our running personnel?
Our QB?

 

[Tunescribe]

Folks seem to think that we will win about FIVE fewer games than in 2021? Where is our team son much worse in 2024?

Yes, we had Josh, yes, we had Josh.
======================
Is our passing personnel that ,?
Our running personnel?
Our QB?

Big differences in coaching staff and offensive line.

 

[Sicilian]

Big differences in coaching staff and offensive line.

Offensive line is the big difference for me (not to downplay Josh's impact, as it was also important). The starters were Wynn-Karras-Andrews-Mason-Brown/Onwenu (about 50/50 split if I recall?).

Say what you want about Wynn's career overall, but he was a career LT who wasn't going to completely screw the pooch. The interior was all solid veterans, and RT was stout no matter who was in there.

Now, there's a path for this group to be comparable to that one, it's just that it is a big unknown right now, and you can't count on everything going right. Chuks needs to transition to a solid LT, Sow needs to make a year two leap, and you either need Wallace to step in and be solid right away at RT, or one of the interior guys needs to definitively win the RG spot so Onwenu can bump back outside. All possible, but it's still a lot of questions to answer first.

 

[rkarp1]

Offensive line is the big difference for me (not to downplay Josh's impact, as it was also important). The starters were Wynn-Karras-Andrews-Mason-Brown/Onwenu (about 50/50 split if I recall?).

Say what you want about Wynn's career overall, but he was a career LT who wasn't going to completely screw the pooch. The interior was all solid veterans, and RT was stout no matter who was in there.

Now, there's a path for this group to be comparable to that one, it's just that it is a big unknown right now, and you can't count on everything going right. Chuks needs to transition to a solid LT, Sow needs to make a year two leap, and you either need Wallace to step in and be solid right away at RT, or one of the interior guys needs to definitively win the RG spot so Onwenu can bump back outside. All possible, but it's still a lot of questions to answer first.

when Wynn was younger, before his contract issues over took his competitiveness, when he was healthy, was above average.
Karras also was smart, nasty and comfortable between Wynn/Andrews. Shaq was a stud, and Brown was a pro bowl RT from time to time, when he felt like it

 

[mgteich]

Big differences in coaching staff and offensive line.

I agree. So, folks think that this will result in a difference of 5 wins?

In any case, I suggest that IF the coaching is OK, how far we go (and if we go) in the playoffs will depend on our improvement on the OL, plua of course continuing to re-sign, extend and replace our top defensive players.

 

[Huckleberry1]

There is a path for them to win 8-9 games, but whether they will or not will come down to a few plays when the game is on the line. Last year they had Jones and Zappe. Jones perfected the art of always losing close games, and Zappe wasn’t much better.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The O-line was better in 2021 and they were built to run the ball where they went on a 7 game winning streak doing that effectively. The passing game was still putrid as it today and was predicated on being able to run the ball efficiently.

Once they ran into teams that stopped their initial running attack, the passing game was dead to rights. Since 2020, they can’t abandon their game plan and just start slinging it all over the field.

I’ve said this the last few years that the skill players are so weak in the passing game, teams welcome them throwing the football.

The biggest difference though was that the 2021 team got 7 of their 10 wins from teams .500 or below and had weather in their favor. They have come back down to earth in 2022-23. They have had a very bad record against any team .500 and above since 2020.

 

[upstater1]

Folks seem to think that we will win about FIVE fewer games than in 2021? Where is our team son much worse in 2024?

Yes, we had Josh, yes, we had Josh.
======================
Is our passing personnel that ,?
Our running personnel?
Our QB?

Our defense was abysmal. We had 6 old guys on D who were at the end of their careers.

We couldn't stop the Bills. At all.

 

[Triumph]

I agree. So, folks think that this will result in a difference of 5 wins?

In any case, I suggest that IF the coaching is OK, how far we go (and if we go) in the playoffs will depend on our improvement on the OL, plua of course continuing to re-sign, extend and replace our top defensive players.

 

[Real fan 02]

Folks seem to think that we will win about FIVE fewer games than in 2021? Where is our team son much worse in 2024?

Yes, we had Josh, yes, we had Josh.
======================
Is our passing personnel that ,?
Our running personnel?
Our QB?

We won 8 games with a pop Warner offense in 2022. Even with changes, uncertainty we are better team going forward. Think just how bad it looked in 2022 and worsened in 2023 with Bill O.

New coach, new scheme, new QB.

 

[stinkypete]

The line was bettter in 2021, the RBs were marginally better. The 2024 recievers/TEs should be significantly. The 2021 defense had Hightower and McCourty. You can't discount the impact of that leadership on a unit.

This is as much about schedule as it is about personnel.

The 2021 team played Carolina without McCaffery, Cleveland without Chubb, and Tennessee without Henry. They also had excellent opposing QB luck - most of the QBs they beat were rookies (Mills, Wilson, White, Lawrence), at the end of their usefulness (Ryan, Tannahill), or had Belichick in their heads (Mayfield, Darnold).

The only really impressive win of that season was the Chargers game. Otherwise, they were a fraud.

 

[Real fan 02]

The line was bettter in 2021, the RBs were marginally better. The 2024 recievers/TEs should be significantly. The 2021 defense had Hightower and McCourty. You can't discount the impact of that leadership on a unit.

This is as much about schedule as it is about personnel.

The 2021 team played Carolina without McCaffery, Cleveland without Chubb, and Tennessee without Henry. They also had excellent opposing QB luck - most of the QBs they beat were rookies (Mills, Wilson, White, Lawrence), at the end of their usefulness (Ryan, Tannahill), or had Belichick in their heads (Mayfield, Darnold).

The only really impressive win of that season was the Chargers game. Otherwise, they were a fraud.

They did catch alot of breaks that season. They were 9-3 at one point and controlled thier own destiny. The Hightower that season was a shell of his former all pro self.. the year off as he admitted got him into retirement mode. Glad he's on the staff though.

 

[tasmlab]

The line was bettter in 2021, the RBs were marginally better. The 2024 recievers/TEs should be significantly. The 2021 defense had Hightower and McCourty. You can't discount the impact of that leadership on a unit.

This is as much about schedule as it is about personnel.

The 2021 team played Carolina without McCaffery, Cleveland without Chubb, and Tennessee without Henry. They also had excellent opposing QB luck - most of the QBs they beat were rookies (Mills, Wilson, White, Lawrence), at the end of their usefulness (Ryan, Tannahill), or had Belichick in their heads (Mayfield, Darnold).

The only really impressive win of that season was the Chargers game. Otherwise, they were a fraud.

All this, plus the kicker made his kicks in 2021 IIRC.

Ryland was statistically the NFL's worst kicker last year with the worst completion percentage and several games could've been won with just a few points.

 

[stinkypete]

All this, plus the kicker made his kicks in 2021 IIRC.

Ryland was statistically the NFL's worst kicker last year with the worst completion percentage and several games could've been won with just a few points.

The 2021 Patriots were the last team to play like a Belichick team. They played disciplined and won on the margins.

Something broke that December.

 

[captain stone]

Folks seem to think that we will win about FIVE fewer games than in 2021? Where is our team son much worse in 2024?

Yes, we had Josh, yes, we had Josh.
======================
Is our passing personnel that ,?
Our running personnel?
Our QB?

It was the Schedule.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The 2021 Patriots were the last team to play like a Belichick team. They played disciplined and won on the margins.

Something broke that December.

The schedule got tougher and there were clear skies with no wind.

 

[mgteich]

Isn't the bottom line that the 2024 team will probably be as good or better everywhere but OT and coaching? If that mean five fewer wins, so be it.

 

[stinkypete]

The schedule got tougher and there were clear skies with no wind.

This is all true, but something more fundamental broke.

The 2021 Patriots were the 25th most penalized team in the NFL, the 2022 Patriots were 8th. The special teams coverage units started falling apart. The rosters were mostly the same, but they lost the discipline that had been a driving force of the dynasty.

I have suspected that the locker room was lost at some point during that December/January stretch. The Buffalo game is a clear inflection point (if the coach had no faith in the QB, why should the team). They looked like they weren't even trying during the playoff game.