Update: Curran says Belichick has been on the hot seat since 2019

[TommyD4207]

Check it out ... 349 pages.

Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

Just not having the kind of year I expected. Is it psychological ? Is he not getting the help with some WR's he used to? Anytime someone caught the ball Saturday I was looking for 21 trailing the play, ok sometimes it was Rowe . Can he turn it around for next games? What about his free agency...

www.patsfans.com

Now combine all the dozens of Brady/BB threads together, I bet it dwarfs that. Although I'm sure it's on the way to Malcolm Butler territory. Even 4 years after the fact.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Now combine all the dozens of Brady/BB threads together, I bet it dwarfs that. Although I'm sure it's on the way to Malcolm Butler territory. Even 4 years after the fact.

For Ian this site is truly a labor of love ...

 

[50-yard-line]

It does not fall on me to research a point you are trying to make. If you have any evidence that Super Bowl teams have fewer rookies than the League overall does, feel free to present it.

I never said that. I said, and stand by, that the SB teams each year are generally a veteran group. There have been some good to great rookie performances in the Superbowls - Butler and Michel being two of the most recent examples (and easily top-10 among rookie performances in the history of the big game), but the teams around them, as usual, were a VETERAN group.

But I wouldn't research Super Bowl 49 if I were you.... You see, Russell Wilson was a veteran and Malcolm Butler was a rookie and veterans just know how to win and rookies don't....

You're not very good at being clever, though you clearly think you are. If you take the strawmen out of your argument, you have none. look at the Patriots defense on this particular play: Revis, Browner, McCourty, Chung, Hightower, Jones - they had like 3 or 4 guys on their rookie deals, all in year 3 or 4 of their contract. it was a veteran group. It always is.

Where did I say they were?

Where did you conflate "rookie" with on "rookie contract"? Here:

Veterans are more knowledgeable than rookies... that doesn't need evidence.

It does when you say something as phenomenally stupid as "veterans know how to win." By your own logic, veterans also know how to lose. And tie.

And if you want to die on that hill, have at it... just dumb.

Then why does any team have any rookies at all? According to your logic, you should have all veterans. After all, they "know how to win."

Just 5 seconds thinking about this but

Exhibit A - LA Rams
Exhibit B - TB Bucs

There is no "factual evidence" in that statement. I can simply respond with the 2019 KC Chiefs. Their superstar QB and WR were each still on rookie contracts.
Bottom line is this: It is better to draft well than to draft poorly. NE has drafted very poorly of late. There is only one man responsible for this.

 

[Wozzy]

It does when you say something as phenomenally stupid as "veterans know how to win." By your own logic, veterans also know how to lose. And tie.

Vets know how to win in the NFL, they know what it means to be a professional. That you're arguing rookie players are inherently as experienced or smart as vets is the only thing phenomenally stupid in this back and forth. It also doesn't change the fact that the age of those 2014-2019 Patriot teams were among the oldest rosters in the NFL at that time.

Then why does any team have any rookies at all? According to your logic, you should have all veterans. After all, they "know how to win."

Because rookies are cheap.

 

[TommyD4207]

It keeps going...

 

[RIpats88]

Vets know how to win in the NFL, they know what it means to be a professional. That you're arguing rookie players are inherently as experienced or smart as vets is the only thing phenomenally stupid in this back and forth. It also doesn't change the fact that the age of those 2014-2019 Patriot teams were among the oldest rosters in the NFL at that time.

Because rookies are cheap.

Other than the rams, no team has really built a super-bowl contender just "paying a ton of veterans" and the patriots didn't either. the entire core of our super bowl winning teams was drafted and you know it too..

 

[Kontradiction]

Check it out ... 349 and 304 pages ... 2 in the top 10 ... maybe we get there

Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

Just not having the kind of year I expected. Is it psychological ? Is he not getting the help with some WR's he used to? Anytime someone caught the ball Saturday I was looking for 21 trailing the play, ok sometimes it was Rowe . Can he turn it around for next games? What about his free agency...

www.patsfans.com

Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

Uhhhhhh

www.patsfans.com

I don’t think we will ever see a thread get to that level over the course of one offseason again, unfortunately. Either through the team falling back to the pack and shedding the front-running bandwagon artists, the over-moderation forcing out the colorful personalities, or both, the board is sterile. The level of activity and discourse in the TC threads, for example, is not where it used to be. It’s dry around here.

 

[Wozzy]

Other than the rams, no team has really built a super-bowl contender just "paying a ton of veterans" and the patriots didn't either. the entire core of our super bowl winning teams was drafted and you know it too..

The 2014-2019 teams were some of the oldest rosters in the league. That fact isn't going away simply because you don't like it.

 

[XLIX]

There is no "factual evidence" in that statement. I can simply respond with the 2019 KC Chiefs. Their superstar QB and WR were each still on rookie contracts.
Bottom line is this: It is better to draft well than to draft poorly. NE has drafted very poorly of late. There is only one man responsible for this.

Yes I said that. Not sure what your point is as I clearly differentiated between "rookie" and "rookie contract".

I never said that. I said, and stand by, that the SB teams each year are generally a veteran group. There have been some good to great rookie performances in the Superbowls - Butler and Michel being two of the most recent examples (and easily top-10 among rookie performances in the history of the big game), but the teams around them, as usual, were a VETERAN group.

The vast majority of players in the NFL are veterans, so yeah.... the majority of players on a Super Bowl team - or any team for that matter - are going to be veterans; i.e. "a veteran group".

You're not exactly breaking new ground here by saying a classification which represents roughly 90% of NFL players will be highly represented on championship teams.

 

[RIpats88]

The 2014-2019 teams were some of the oldest rosters in the league. That fact isn't going away simply because you don't like it.

oldest rosters of guys they drafted. and Bill was unable to draft adequate replacements as they got older to replace them because of his poor drafts during that time.

i'm not sure the point you are trying to make here. Patriots built their team through the draft. the 2014 - 2019 teams were built on the backs of Bill's draft picks. successful teams replace their veterans as they get older and overpaid with rookies/2nd year guys who can step in and take their place.

see woodhead-shane vereen-james white. Bill had poor drafts from 2014-2019 so as those guys got older he never had adequate replacements. thats why he had to go into free agnecy and overpay guys in 2021

 

[Wozzy]

oldest rosters of guys they drafted. and Bill was unable to draft adequate replacements as they got older to replace them because of his poor drafts during that time.

i'm not sure the point you are trying to make here. Patriots built their team through the draft. the 2014 - 2019 teams were built on the backs of Bill's draft picks. successful teams replace their veterans as they get older and overpaid with rookies/2nd year guys who can step in and take their place.

see woodhead-shane vereen-james white. Bill had poor drafts from 2014-2019 so as those guys got older he never had adequate replacements. thats why he had to go into free agnecy and overpay guys in 2021

You don’t look to replace players that don’t need replacing. There was no upgrade to Tom Brady or Slater or DMC. You can only roster 53 players.

They went wild in free agency in 2021 because they cleared years of accumulated dead cap off the books from going all in at the end of Tom’s run in 2020. League leading cap space didn’t appear out of nowhere.

Yeah they had a couple bad drafts, they were also reaching and drafting for immediate need at that time, not looking down the road.

When Tom decided to leave they started over. Now they’ll have one of the youngest rosters in the league, mostly drafted and developed talented young players… which is odd for a team you suggest sucks at drafting.

 

[50-yard-line]

Vets know how to win in the NFL, they know what it means to be a professional. That you're arguing rookie players are inherently as experienced or smart as vets is the only thing phenomenally stupid in this back and forth. It also doesn't change the fact that the age of those 2014-2019 Patriot teams were among the oldest rosters in the NFL at that time.

Because rookies are cheap.

I was quoting XLIX. I agree with you here.

 

[50-yard-line]

You don’t look to replace players that don’t need replacing. There was no upgrade to Tom Brady or Slater or DMC. You can only roster 53 players.

They went wild in free agency in 2021 because they cleared years of accumulated dead cap off the books from going all in at the end of Tom’s run in 2020. League leading cap space didn’t appear out of nowhere.

Yeah they had a couple bad drafts, they were also reaching and drafting for immediate need at that time, not looking down the road.

When Tom decided to leave they started over. Now they’ll have one of the youngest rosters in the league, mostly drafted and developed talented young players… which is odd for a team you suggest sucks at drafting.

And this is why they should extend Uche, Onwenu, Dugger, Barmore, etc.

 

[captain stone]

I don’t think we will ever see a thread get to that level over the course of one offseason again, unfortunately. Either through the team falling back to the pack and shedding the front-running bandwagon artists, the over-moderation forcing out the colorful personalities, or both, the board is sterile. The level of activity and discourse in the TC threads, for example, is not where it used to be. It’s dry around here.

Perhaps we might be in need of some high-quality H2O...

 

[Huckleberry1]

I have always trusted and respected Curran, but he’s full of **** on this one. He’s claiming that Belichick was on the “ hot seat” coming off a season where they won it all, and that makes no sense at all.

 

[rochrist]

.

Bottom line is this: It is better to draft well than to draft poorly. NE has drafted very poorly of late. There is only one man responsible for this.

Actually, NE has drafted pretty well of late.

 

[PATS16N0]

Eagles fans thought Andy Reid was a complete bum and fired him. Now he has Mahomes and people are trying to compare his run to Belichick’s twenty year reign of terror with Tom.

I just think the arguments are stupid all around. I’ve always said it was mostly Tom because the players are the ones playing the game. That’s even a Belichick quote, “it’s a players game.”

You aren’t winning against teams with good QBs if your QB sucks or is most visibly mid.

Tom Brady brought us to the Super Bowl (in 2011?) with the most frustrating, trash defense I think I’ve ever seen in the NFL. To this day, I have no idea how we even got there. Brady leads a brutally contested drive against the stoutest defenses in the league, then three passes later the other team answered.

QB is the most important factor in the field. I think Belichick has amassed too much power as General Manager, but he’s proven he can win with a bad ass quarterback. You fire him, someone picks him up immediately if he still wants to coach, and if they have a good QB, he’s all of a sudden Darth Hoodie again.

 

[PATS16N0]

I moved to Florida two years ago because I missed Tom, but I can only imagine the stupidity coming out of Felger & Mazz on this one.

 

[PATS16N0]

Three years after Belichick is fired and wins a SB as the Bengals HC, Felger will be like, “you know, I know I supported it, I thought he should be fired, i called for him to be fired, but looking back, that’s a pretty ridiculous opinion. Just absolutely stupid. Shame on Robert Kraft. He should know better. I’m just a dumb radio guy. He’s the owner.”

 

[Huckleberry1]

Actually, NE has drafted pretty well of late.

I agree. Belichick needed to start listening to other voices in the draft, and that he has appears to be paying off.