Update: Curran says Belichick has been on the hot seat since 2019

[XLIX]

Veterans are more knowledgeable than rookies... that doesn't need evidence.

It does when you say something as phenomenally stupid as "veterans know how to win." By your own logic, veterans also know how to lose. And tie.

And if you want to die on that hill, have at it... just dumb.

Then why does any team have any rookies at all? According to your logic, you should have all veterans. After all, they "know how to win."

Just 5 seconds thinking about this but

Exhibit A - LA Rams
Exhibit B - TB Bucs

There is no "factual evidence" in that statement. I can simply respond with the 2019 KC Chiefs. Their superstar QB and WR were each still on rookie contracts.

Bottom line is this: It is better to draft well than to draft poorly. NE has drafted very poorly of late. There is only one man responsible for this.

 

[Wozzy]

Already stated Brady’s dead cap would be cap hit instead.

Looks like you’re just reverting to your typical word salad since you’ve been posterized once again.

Now you’re even re-defining dead cap hits to include deferred signing bonuses and extensions to rostered players. Wow.

Cap hit is no less painful than dead cap hit when you have no cap space.

There is no word salad, this is so simple a twelve year old could understand it... I need to provide a pie chart for you apparently.

I specially said "The Patriots entered 2020 with a quarter of their cap spent on dead cap, players no longer with the team, and kicking Gilmore's cap down the road twice in 2018 and 2019." See above... don't make me get insulting with your ability to comprehend.

 

[Sfpat]

And that is?

If he doesn't make the playoffs, it's time for him to go. This team is built straight out of the 90's predicated on the ground game or "clock ball" and hoping to at least slow down the opposition enough. Bill used to be ahead of the curve with other teams chasing him, but it seems like for many years he's just content being the HC of the Pats. The innovation seems to be gone.

Bill is the GM, so he's in total control of the roster. He can't blame anyone but himself if they don't make the playoffs this season.

Let's say BB won't be fired if the Pats are winning. I trust you can see the link between Pats success and/or lack of success and BB's status.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

They didn't extend Gilmore, they didn't pay him a penny more... they reworked his deal and kicked his cap down the road.

2018:



2019:



Facts suck for you.

I don’t remember arguing that Stephon Gilmore had a large cap hit in 2020 and 2021. In 2021, the dispute was that his base salary was low giving him little incentive to play.

Your entire failed narrative about the factors leading to the end of the Patriots dynasty has been reduced to pointing out their all-pro QB had a cap hit slightly over market for 2020 and 2021 and nitpicking about a minor point I made regarding his contract structure

 

[Wozzy]

It does when you say something as phenomenally stupid as "veterans know how to win." By your own logic, veterans also know how to lose. And tie.

Then why does any team have any rookies at all? According to your logic, you should have all veterans. After all, they "know how to win."

There is no "factual evidence" in that statement. I can simply respond with the 2019 KC Chiefs. Their superstar QB and WR were each still on rookie contracts.

Bottom line is this: It is better to draft well than to draft poorly. NE has drafted very poorly of late. There is only one man responsible for this.

The 2020 team had a lot of rookies... was Josh Uche a good player in 2020? No, he wasn't.

Rookies don't fast forward their development just so the team can contend for rings. Gronk had 546 yards receiving as a rookie and started 11 games, he developed into a HOF player... he didn't arrive that way.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Cap hit is no less painful than dead cap hit when you have no cap space.

There is no word salad, this is so simple a twelve year old could understand it... I need to provide a pie chart for you apparently.

I specially said "The Patriots entered 2020 with a quarter of their cap spent on dead cap, players no longer with the team, and kicking Gilmore's cap down the road twice in 2018 and 2019." See above... don't make me get insulting with your ability to comprehend.

A huge chunk of this choosing not to re-sign Brady. A huge chunk of this is for an all pro, DPOY the previous year. Entering the 2020 offseason there is no Brady “dead money”. They have at the time the best offensive and defensive player in the league. What’s your point exactly? Where is all that extravagant dead cap money from the glory days years ago? It doesn’t exist. You made it up.

 

[Wozzy]

I don’t remember arguing that Stephon Gilmore had a large cap hit in 2020 and 2021. In 2021, the dispute was that his base salary was low giving him little incentive to play.

Your entire failed narrative about the factors leading to the end of the Patriots dynasty has been reduced to pointing out their all-pro QB had a cap hit slightly over market for 2020 and 2021 and nitpicking about a minor point I made regarding his contract structure

Gilmore's dispute was because they gave him money upfront in those earlier reworking, which lowered his base salary for 2021 to half of what his annual salary was. He wanted a new deal and wasn't going to play for pennies.

My entire argument for 2020 is based on reality, salary cap facts and the Patriots roster at that time which had 11 starters and major contributors that needed to be re-signed or replaced... including their QB... the most expensive player on any team.

Again... facts suck for you.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Let's say BB won't be fired if the Pats are winning. I trust you can see the link between Pats success and/or lack of success and BB's status.

I'd have my doubts he gets fired just for having a losing season. It's going to take a lot for it to happen as I don't think Kraft wants to roll dice on an unknown. He'd ideally like Bill to make it work with Mac, have a better coaching staff and a better overall team. I think the only way Kraft pulls the plug is if they have a losing season, don't win divisional games, players tune him out via Pete Carroll and they display poor situational awareness like they did last season.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Gilmore's dispute was because they gave him money upfront in those earlier reworking, which lowered his base salary for 2021 to half of what his annual salary was. He wanted a new deal and wasn't going to play for pennies.

My entire argument for 2020 is based on reality, salary cap facts and the Patriots roster at that time which had 11 starters and major contributors that needed to be re-signed or replaced... including their QB... the most expensive player on any team.

Again... facts suck for you.

Brady (60-70% of Mahomes, Rodgers deals) - $25M total cost

Thuney (franchise) & McCourty (highest paid safety in history) - $25M total cost

Which has the better value? Think long and hard about this one.

 

[Wozzy]

A huge chunk of this choosing not to re-sign Brady. A huge chunk of this is for an all pro, DPOY the previous year. Entering the 2020 offseason there is no Brady “dead money”. They have at the time the best offensive and defensive player in the league. What’s your point exactly? Where is all that extravagant dead cap money from the glory days years ago? It doesn’t exist. You made it up.

Brady gets re-signed... fine.. where do the other ten or so starters come from?

When you believe one magic player fixes everything, it makes every other post of yours nonsensical.

Brady and a roster full of jags aren't winning rings, or even competing for rings.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Brady gets re-signed... fine.. where do the other ten or so starters come from?

When you believe one magic player fixes everything, it makes every other post of yours nonsensical.

Brady and a roster full of jags aren't winning rings, or even competing for rings.

Then why pay the same amount Brady cost for Thuney and McCourty? Where do the other ten starters come from? Exact same argument, difference being Brady’s cost value exponentially greater than the players they signed instead.

The “they wouldn’t win a ring” argument makes zero sense. They sign players to maximize value and to win as many games as they can. It seems you have a double standard for the QB position, and it’s irrational/delusional.

 

[Wozzy]

Brady (60-70% of Mahomes, Rodgers deals) - $25M total cost

Thuney (franchise) & McCourty (highest paid safety in history) - $25M total cost

Which has the better value? Think long and hard about this one.

If Brady gets the Tampa deal, 2 years/50M with two 25M dollar cap hits... his total cap hit would be 63.5 million.

If you add Brady to that 2020 roster and remove Thuney and DMC... they might win 8 games... maybe.

Why would Brady stay for that? Why would the Patriots want to do that? Just dumb.

 

[Wozzy]

Then why pay the same amount Brady cost for Thuney and McCourty? Where do the other ten starters come from? Exact same argument, difference being Brady’s cost value exponentially greater than the players they signed instead.

They wanted to keep Thuney, he was a one season payoff. He didn't effect them at all beyond 2020.

They wanted to keep DMC to develop the defensive backfield going forward. Brady left, what they did after that is irrelevant.

 

[TheRainMaker]

What's funny about this is that some posters were/are adamant that the Pats couldn't sign Brady to $25M per year in 2020 and had to let him go. Bob Kraft had said they could've signed Tom, but he decided to leave.

If you can't sign a QB to $25M in today's NFL, you are doing something seriously wrong.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

If Brady gets the Tampa deal, 2 years/50M with two 25M dollar cap hits... his total cap hit would be 63.5 million.

If you add Brady to that 2020 roster and remove Thuney and DMC... they might win 8 games... maybe.

Why would Brady stay for that? Why would the Patriots want to do that? Just dumb.

Damn you should be an oddsmaker because they don’t know what they’re talking about putting the Patriots in February 2020 at +900 to win SB and clear AFC East favorites before Brady left. I see you’re shifting to batshit theoreticals now because you’re cooked.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

They wanted to keep Thuney, he was a one season payoff. He didn't effect them at all beyond 2020.

They wanted to keep DMC to develop the defensive backfield going forward. Brady left, what they did after that is irrelevant.

But why sign them at all CuZ tHeY wErEn’T GuNnA wIn ThA sUpEr BoWl!!! ?

Isn’t that your rationalization for why passing on Brady was the correct move?

 

[Wozzy]

But why sign them at all CuZ tHeY wErEn’T GuNnA wIn ThA sUpEr BoWl!!! ?

Isn’t that your rationalization for why passing on Brady was the correct move?

They wanted to keep them both, Thuney just got an offer too large to match and the Pats drafted Onwenu.

Brady left in free agency, he chose to leave. It was the correct move for Tom, it was the correct move for the team... they reached a dead end.

The goal is to contend for rings, not retain Brady at any cost. Them letting him go allowed him to win another ring... as a Brady zealot you should admire that.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

They wanted to keep them both, Thuney just got an offer too large to match and the Pats drafted Onwenu.

Brady left in free agency, he chose to leave. It was the correct move for Tom, it was the correct move for the team... they reached a dead end.

The goal is to contend for rings, not retain Brady at any cost. Them letting him go allowed him to win another ring... as a Brady zealot you should admire that.

They went from around +900 to around +2500 to win the Super Bowl in 2020. He was an MVP Finalist in 2020 and 2021 playing at 60-70% of his value (see Rodgers, Mahomes deals). They’re .500 since he left, got no draft comp for him, and have a middling, rookie contract QB, and at best an avg roster from all the “savings and rebuilding.” And don’t forget “cap reset!”

How was this the correct move for the team?

 

[h0c2000]

They went from around +900 to around +2500 to win the Super Bowl in 2020. He was an MVP Finalist in 2020 and 2021 playing at 60-70% of his value (see Rodgers, Mahomes deals). They’re .500 since he left, got no draft comp for him, and have a middling, rookie contract QB, and at best an avg roster from all the “savings and rebuilding.” And don’t forget “cap reset!”

How was this the correct move for the team?

Bill has shown he can win multiple playoff games with multiple QBs playing. Brady was holding back WRs like Harry who is about to blossom now that he's been far away from Tom. The team was able to also get a 3rd round comp pick for Brady. Don't forget next year top in the league in cap space. What's not to like?

 

[captain stone]

I'd have my doubts he gets fired just for having a losing season. It's going to take a lot for it to happen as I don't think Kraft wants to roll dice on an unknown. He'd ideally like Bill to make it work with Mac, have a better coaching staff and a better overall team. I think the only way Kraft pulls the plug is if they have a losing season, don't win divisional games, players tune him out via Pete Carroll and they display poor situational awareness like they did last season.

Now that Obie is running the offense, Klemm is motivated to restore his NFL rep, and the defense seems ok (though I really don't like the coaching structure there), I'm fine with letting Bill coach until he passes the hated Shula...

But...

For Ganja's sake,

Please:

Someone lock him in a room somewhere during draft weekend (including the UDFA signing flurry) with No communications devices Whatsoever available to him... But with a toilet... Heck just take All of his grocery-shopping duties away and give him the title of Head Coach/President Emeritus or something.