Update: Curran says Belichick has been on the hot seat since 2019

[ahmed]

Looked back at Tom's salaries over his career. He made $23M for one season in 2019. The rest has been less than $20M which is Bill's salary. That is bad. But as I've mentioned before, Tom seems like a pretty bad negotiator. And as Andrew Brandt has responded as to why Tom kept taking "hometown discounts", he said Tom doesn't seem to understand how the salary cap works. He used Brett Favre as an example where he was the highest paid QB in the league at the time and Brandt had no problem figuring out how the Packers could sign other players to fill out the roster. He ended by saying Tom only helped Bob Kraft by taking less and not the salary cap.

Brady not understanding the cap being the reason he took below market deals is one of the dumbest things I have ever read about sports. His agent also did not get it?

 

[ahmed]

The only way BB’s seat is warm is if RK has about six brain cells left. BB has been the coach of the Pats for so long that I can’t tell whether I’m a BB fan or a Pats fan.

Let me clear up your uncertainty - you are a BB fan.

 

[ahmed]

Ok I figured that as much.. wickersham reported that Kraft is the one who signed off on him not resigning TB12.. as he wanted the Brees contract..

Of course he did. He would never make such a material decision without Kraft's blessing. Kraft essentially had a choice to make between blessing BB's decision or go against BB and extend Brady. He chose BB because he figured he would still be coach for many years and Brady would play for a year or 2.

 

[slash83]

played 9 games missed 8.

I understand that, and still put up better numbers than any Pats WR.

 

[50-yard-line]

So a guard who was benched multiple times his rookie year and some other guards who have never played a snap, a role player LB, and a corner who has never played a snap, along with a backup QB is your addition to the two Jones's?

What I expected is a couple guys from the 2018 and 2019 drafts who would have been on their second contracts with the team right in the middle of their prime as well as at least Uche and Dugger from the following class as plus level starters in 2025. Now I won't kill Bill for Uche and Dugger being gone when it hasn't happened yet but 4 abysmal drafts in a row is the reason we will have a ton of cap room but little talent on the roster. By 2025 I would like to have a true number 1 receiver, an idea of whether or not we have a QB (Mac or the next guy), and a few more good draft picks.

The had a five-year stretch that brought 3 SBs, a fourth that they lost, and a loss in an AFCCG. Their draft capital was meager and they played a lot of hole-filling (like drafting Michel, who was ready to step into the backfield).
18 and 19 were bad drafts - they traded away capital and just drafted poorly. No one's arguing that.
The effect on THIS team right now is minimal - 5 years is forever in the NFL.

They got a couple of the guys you want in 2020 (Uche and Dugger and Onwenu - wish Jennings would figure it out), a couple more in 2021 (Mac, Rham, and Barmore, with a couple/three others still on the team), a couple more in 2022 (Strange, the Jones boys,,Strong and Harris, still have hope for Thornton and Roberts, Zappe is a good backup), and I don't know how anyone can look at the 23 class pessimistically. Gonzo has got ALL the tools to be great, White looks like a monster on the DL, and Mapu is already impressing and getting multiple assignments. The OLs they drafted this year are big and super athletic. They got their kicker and punter... Heck, even their late-round flyers are intriguing as all get out.

That's four in a row. The Pats should be in good shape in 2025
If, the big IF, Mac develops, this team will be in the hunt in '25, maybe sooner.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Brady not understanding the cap being the reason he took below market deals is one of the dumbest things I have ever read about sports. His agent also did not get it?

At the end of the day it’s the client’s call on what he wants.

 

[Ring 6]

Says who? The Chiefs are coming off a Super Bowl win and have over 40% of their cap taken up by 3 players.

The chiefs had 6 players with cap hits above 5 million and 47 players below.
If you want to think those 6 players won without the other 47 I don’t know what to tell you.
41/53 made less than 3 mill
36/53 made less than 2 mill
If those players sucked the chiefs don’t win a championship.

 

[Ring 6]

Bill is still operating as if he has Brady on the roster. I mean their whole pitch to Hopkins supposedly was to take less because of the "culture of winning"

What culture of winning? There hasn't been much of that since Brady left.

You were there? What else was discussed?

 

[Wozzy]

Looked back at Tom's salaries over his career. He made $23M for one season in 2019. The rest has been less than $20M which is Bill's salary. That is bad. But as I've mentioned before, Tom seems like a pretty bad negotiator. And as Andrew Brandt has responded as to why Tom kept taking "hometown discounts", he said Tom doesn't seem to understand how the salary cap works. He used Brett Favre as an example where he was the highest paid QB in the league at the time and Brandt had no problem figuring out how the Packers could sign other players to fill out the roster. He ended by saying Tom only helped Bob Kraft by taking less and not the salary cap.

“I think what makes it such a challenge, is it’s hard to win one Super Bowl,” Brady said. “There’s salary caps. You just can’t go buy a football team." - Tom Brady



Tom understands the salary cap, it's specifically why he took less to win... and they played in 4, winning 3 over that time period.

Bad negotiator... good grief.

 

[Wozzy]

The same people ^ insisting we have "no talent" now, are the same geniuses saying we had no talent in 2014, 2016 and 2018.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Bill is still operating as if he has Brady on the roster. I mean their whole pitch to Hopkins supposedly was to take less because of the "culture of winning"

What culture of winning? There hasn't been much of that since Brady left.

You were privy to what Bill said?

 

[Real fan 02]

Of course he did. He would never make such a material decision without Kraft's blessing. Kraft essentially had a choice to make between blessing BB's decision or go against BB and extend Brady. He chose BB because he figured he would still be coach for many years and Brady would play for a year or 2.

This is due largely in part to Brady always taking less for the greater good of the team. I truly believe the organization thought Brady wouldn't leave.. your right on your assessment.

 

[Ring 6]

Of course he did. He would never make such a material decision without Kraft's blessing. Kraft essentially had a choice to make between blessing BB's decision or go against BB and extend Brady. He chose BB because he figured he would still be coach for many years and Brady would play for a year or 2.

You act as if BB wanted Brady to leave.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Poor Tom, all that money he lost in cryptocurrency. Obviously it was Belichick's fault for not paying him more money. Bill must have put a curse on Tom when he left.

Lol. Ring number 7 for Tom the very next year. Someone please curse me like that.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Dugger I think is the most likely of the three and I agree the draft this year solidified the chance Onwenu is gone. Uche is the one I am not sure on. The second half of last season Bill finally took the reins off Uche and just let him rush the passer which is what he is good at. If Bill does that again this season and Uche ends up with double digit sacks I don’t think Bill will match what he would be likely to receive in free agency.

The thing with Bill is as of late I think he has overpaid in terms of some free agent contracts or draft capital to get some veterans that didn't pan out. The Sanu trade, the Michael Bennett trade, the AB situation, Jonnu, Hunter Henry. I think those are all pretty bad recent miscalculations Bill reached on.

Bennett, AB, and Sanu were traded in 2019. Brady was involved in both WR trades to try to salvage the season. Bennett was a disaster but BB moved on quickly - a backup at Dallas after the trade and retired after the 2019 season. The factors involved in a 2019 trade are not the same as a 2024 FA signing. That is a 5 year difference - there will probably be 2 guys on the 2024 Patriots that were on the 2019 squad.

Jonnu was a bad signing (I think Agholor too) but BB quickly moved on from Jonnu and Agholor was only for two years so the damage was limited. Henry is a good TE and not a bad signing. Henry and Gesicki will be good with BOB.

Overall Henry was a good FA signing (every team has to overpay for a FA), and Bennett, AB, and Sanu were from a different era. Jonnu and Agholor were recent poor signings, but BB realized that and moved on in 2 years from both guys.

I do not see anything to worry about in those trades or signings related to 2024 FA signings. BB will make mistakes in 2024 like every GM, but signing AB in 2019 is not an example of how to be better signing Uche in 2024. The signing (or failure) that is relevant is Hopkins. It will be interesting if Hopkins is good in 2024 (I think he will be good in 2023).

 

[RIpats88]

The same people ^ insisting we have "no talent" now, are the same geniuses saying we had no talent in 2014, 2016 and 2018.

We had Brady, gronk and Edelman. Acting like Mac Jones, juju and hunter Henry is the same is just lunacy.

Why patriots fans like to act like we had no top end talent I don't know.

This patriots team has talent. It's just "average" talent. bills roster building philosophy of not paying for high end talent has a high floor. Just a low ceiling. I think fans are justifiably upset that Bill had a chance at a #1 type receiver for relatively cheap and he refused to get him.

Bill hasn't necessarily given Mac and the offense all the help they need. Will they be better? Sure. But compare what Mac has to most other young QBs and it's underwhelming

 

[Wozzy]

We had Brady, gronk and Edelman. Acting like Mac Jones, juju and hunter Henry is the same is just lunacy.

Why patriots fans like to act like we had no top end talent I don't know.

This patriots team has talent. It's just "average" talent. bills roster building philosophy of not paying for high end talent has a high floor. Just a low ceiling. I think fans are justifiably upset that Bill had a chance at a #1 type receiver for relatively cheap and he refused to get him.

Bill hasn't necessarily given Mac and the offense all the help they need. Will they be better? Sure. But compare what Mac has to most other young QBs and it's underwhelming

You forgot the offensive players who did the bulk of the work that postseason, Sony Michel and the offensive line. Michel led the entire NFL postseason in rushing yards, yards per carry and TD's. Also our high powered offense only scored a TD and FG in the Super Bowl... luckily our defense held the 2nd highest scoring team in the NFL to a historically low 3 points. Luckily football isn't fantasy football or who has the best collection of weapons.

Gronk had a hematoma in his thigh, Edelman was toast and retired next year. We had a lot of offensive talent on the offense, just most of it was on the offensive line... also our TE's and FB could still block the hell out of opponents. Most fans, then and now, didn't think we had talent because they only see "weapons" as talent... when five powerful strong athletic offensive lineman can be just as deadly if not more.

The Patriots have exceptional talent, much of it is untested and young... but they have it. "Average talent" is inaccurate, there are 32 teams and the Patriots are deeper than most. Most of their talent lays in first, second and third year players who still have to prove themselves.

Brady, Gronk, Edelman... all three of them were drafted. I remember Patriot fans on Boston.com sport's forums telling me Edelman was injury prone and not talented enough. I remember them telling me Donta Hightower wasn't fast enough after Mayo got hurt and the sophomore LB had to do way too much... they told me he wasn't talented enough.

Most fans wouldn't recognize talent if it slapped them across the face, but when it does... they pretend they knew it all along.

 

[ahmed]

You act as if BB wanted Brady to leave.

He wanted Brady on his terms - I.e. one year deals at way below market value (highest pay was $23MM in 2019 after winning a SB and gave him $3MM as a bonus when they did not give him 2 year contract he wanted when average QBs were making $30MM). BB wanted 1 year deals so he could be in complete control of Brady's future.

Brady wanted a 2 year deal so that he would have some consistency which was a very mild demand.

Summary - BB was so unreasonable to the point that he wanted Brady to get out without having to do the pushing so he could not be blamed which he got.

 

[Ring 6]

He wanted Brady on his terms - I.e. one year deals at way below market value (highest pay was $23MM in 2019 after winning a SB and gave him $3MM as a bonus when they did not give him 2 year contract he wanted when average QBs were making $30MM). BB wanted 1 year deals so he could be in complete control of Brady's future.

Brady wanted a 2 year deal so that he would have some consistency which was a very mild demand.

Summary - BB was so unreasonable to the point that he wanted Brady to get out without having to do the pushing so he could not be blamed which he got.

You say that like anyone ever wants someone not on their terms.

It’s ridiculous that Brady would be so insecure that one year deals were a problem.

There is absolutely no evidence that bb wouldn’t give Brady a 2 year deal.
Thee is evidence that Kraft asked Brady what could be done for him to stay and Brady said “nothing”

The idea that bb forced Brady to leave us fiction made up by people who are brady fans first and patriot fans second in order to fool themselves into thinking Brady loved them.

 

[ahmed]

You say that like anyone ever wants someone not on their terms.

It’s ridiculous that Brady would be so insecure that one year deals were a problem.

There is absolutely no evidence that bb wouldn’t give Brady a 2 year deal.
Thee is evidence that Kraft asked Brady what could be done for him to stay and Brady said “nothing”

The idea that bb forced Brady to leave us fiction made up by people who are brady fans first and patriot fans second in order to fool themselves into thinking Brady loved them.

Kraft offered Brady a contract after he agreed with Bucs - purely for PR. No team ever loses their franchise QB (much less a HOF one) unless they want to - period.

They did not offer him a contact during his free agency till he agreed with Tampa. What team does not talk to their free agent QB they want to sign?

And there are a bunch of other things that reinforce this. The fact there is a large portion of the fanbase with their head in the sand in complete denial is mind blowing. Just goes to show the power of team PR.