Update: Curran says Belichick has been on the hot seat since 2019

[All3Phases]

Then the table your provided in your post above was pointless. You showed a table showing that Brady has been helped more than any other QBs by their defenses, using the average ranking of the defense (in points allowed per game). Since he left, that defense average PPG (at 6.7 over the past 3 years) is actually better than Brady's 7.1.

You just put in that table to make a point, but then you contradict that same argument to make another point.

You just buried him

 

[h0c2000]

Stats are for losers. Those “good to great” teams were 5-13 under Belichick before Brady took over and are barely clinging to .500 since he left.

Since TB12 led offenses average ppg was 4.6 overall in that time frame, did TB12 carry that defense?

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm anticipating that Mac's arm strength will improve.
What I worry about more is the effect of having a wasted year with poor coaching.

Mac Jones Uncorks 70-Yard BOMB To Silence 'Noodle Arm' Haters

As Mac Jones enters a crucial third season with the New England Patriots, the former first round pick is letting it RIP during the offseason.

www.outkick.com

Mac's arms strength is fine. Some fans are out of hand with the amount of arm strength required to succeed as an NFL QB.

 

[patfanken]

Mine too! I actually think that was the right play. I love Tom, but how on Earth could anyone have known he would continue to be so great for so long. That was such a longshot. Looks easy in hindsight, but it wasn't. Trading him for #1's would have been typical "year too early" Bill trying to set us up for the future, and I would have been fine with it.

I have stated on many MANY occasions that Bill drafted Jimmy back in 2014 with the HOPE that by 2017/18, a time frame that would have marked the physical decline of 99% of most QB's, he would take over for a "retiring or declining Brady" It wasn't a radical thought, just common sense.

By 2016 or so, while Jimmy had proven he was a good QB, he was NEVER the "best" QB on the team, so there was never any thought he would be replacing Brady anytime during his rookie contract. He was NEVER a threat to replace Brady regardless of the conspiracy theories and narratives created at the time. While it was a surprise that Brady played so late into his career, it was NEVER a surprise that he would be the Pats QB as long as he was the best one on the roster. And the rest is history. Jimmy was traded for a top 40 pick which was about the best one could have expected.

Brady's departure was a LOT more complex than that. But IMHO, it was a natural chain of events which saw a remarkable 6 year run (14-19) which saw a remarkable FOUR superbowl appearances and 5 AFCCG's. People forget just how heavy the cost of those long runs are to the cap and rosters. From 16-19 the Pats went ALL IN to maximize that run. They did contracts and signed players that, by 2020, left them with a TOTALLY depleted roster and ZERO cap space.

Why fans or the media would think Brady would even want to be here in 2020 STILL boggles my mind. There was NOTHING here for him. Not money, not talent, not depth, AND add the fact his wife wanted to "go south". It was never about a "conspiracy", it was just TIME. It would have been painful to try and watch Tom play his final couple of seasons under those conditions.

 

[patfanken]

DAMNED, I can't believe I got sucked into such a useless thread.

My intent was to read a page or two to see what a thread that SHOULD have been 2 pages long had ballooned up to 15. As we all know, Ben Volin's ONLY sources are the other published articles he reads and then rewrites to fulfill his job obligations. He has offered us NOTHING in all the years he's been doing this.

It is just another case of thread sabotage where a cabal takes over to restate old narratives that fire up some and bore the tears out of others, but mostly just turn out to be attempts at **** comparisons and misinformation. Lets just look at wins and losses and forget the entire CONTEXT of how a team gets to those results. It shows a complete LACK of understanding of the game and what goes into it. They want to make it simple. He was the QB. We won the game, the QB was the reason we won the game. He was the HC, the team lost the game, the HC was the reason we lost the game.

Let's forget out the complexity of the game (which is one of the things we love about it). Let's forget about the fact there are 21 OTHER positions and 45 other players and 2 dozen staff who have impacts on the games. They AREN'T factors to these people. And if you don't believe it, just ask them.

 

[Steve102]

I have stated on many MANY occasions that Bill drafted Jimmy back in 2014 with the HOPE that by 2017/18, a time frame that would have marked the physical decline of 99% of most QB's, he would take over for a "retiring or declining Brady" It wasn't a radical thought, just common sense.

By 2016 or so, while Jimmy had proven he was a good QB, he was NEVER the "best" QB on the team, so there was never any thought he would be replacing Brady anytime during his rookie contract. He was NEVER a threat to replace Brady regardless of the conspiracy theories and narratives created at the time. While it was a surprise that Brady played so late into his career, it was NEVER a surprise that he would be the Pats QB as long as he was the best one on the roster. And the rest is history. Jimmy was traded for a top 40 pick which was about the best one could have expected.

Brady's departure was a LOT more complex than that. But IMHO, it was a natural chain of events which saw a remarkable 6 year run (14-19) which saw a remarkable FOUR superbowl appearances and 5 AFCCG's. People forget just how heavy the cost of those long runs are to the cap and rosters. From 16-19 the Pats went ALL IN to maximize that run. They did contracts and signed players that, by 2020, left them with a TOTALLY depleted roster and ZERO cap space.

Why fans or the media would think Brady would even want to be here in 2020 STILL boggles my mind. There was NOTHING here for him. Not money, not talent, not depth, AND add the fact his wife wanted to "go south". It was never about a "conspiracy", it was just TIME. It would have been painful to try and watch Tom play his final couple of seasons under those conditions.

 

[p8ryts]

Where in your version does the fact that lynch asked about Brady and belichick laughed at him fit?
Or are we just ignoring facts to be controversial?

3 YEARS LATER

 

[TheRainMaker]

Mac Jones Uncorks 70-Yard BOMB To Silence 'Noodle Arm' Haters

As Mac Jones enters a crucial third season with the New England Patriots, the former first round pick is letting it RIP during the offseason.

www.outkick.com

Mac's arms strength is fine. Some fans are out of hand with the amount of arm strength required to succeed as an NFL QB.

I was watching old games recently and came across the 2007 Cowboys. That was Romo's best season and I thought he had a stronger arm than I remember. He was underthrowing Owens on numerous passes and didn't have that much zip.

Ditto with Manning back in his 1999 breakout year. I always thought he had a strong arm, but he didn't exactly have a cannon prior to his injury.

 

[Bruins29]

And why are you reading it?

Obviously to see if you were going to ruin it.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

I've said time and time again that in my opinion, you can be a great coach but your culture and approach can no longer work on the field. The question you need to ask yourself is: Can Belichick still make this a superbowl team and can these players buy in? The other players of old bought in. Will these players?

 

[RobertWeathers]

I was watching old games recently and came across the 2007 Cowboys. That was Romo's best season and I thought he had a stronger arm than I remember. He was underthrowing Owens on numerous passes and didn't have that much zip.

Ditto with Manning back in his 1999 breakout year. I always thought he had a strong arm, but he didn't exactly have a cannon prior to his injury.

Neither did Joe Montana. Joe could chuck it when necessary but his arm strength did not make him "Cool Joe". His brains, feel for the game, talent surrounding him and system fit did.

But of the QBs you mentioned, their arms were good enough for them to have great careers.

If Mac crashes and burns, it won't be because of lack of arm strength. It'll be for other reasons.

 

[Real fan 02]

Not available but better right now...

Andy Reid
Sean McVay
Kyle Shanahan
Doug Pederson
Zac Taylor
Nick Sirianni
Matt LaFluer
John Harbaugh
Kevin O'Connell
Sean McDermott

That pushes Bill out of the current top 10 head coaches. I can't say he's better because he's too new but I would still take Brian Daboll over Belichick at this point. I like Sean Payton too but let's see if can straighten out Russell Wilson.

8 of the coaches mentioned have either a recent superbowl winning QB or a qb that's been playing At a high level for a few years.. so tip my hat to them...

The GOAT HC had one for 19 seasons.. we won plenty during that time.. I'll say this again no franchise in NFL history will have the reign we had with a coach/ QB combination again in NFL history period!

Does anyone think Allen? Mahomes, burrow, Jackson? Will play North of 15 seasons??.. I don't.. BB is in a category of his own.. just my opinion

 

[Real fan 02]

I was watching old games recently and came across the 2007 Cowboys. That was Romo's best season and I thought he had a stronger arm than I remember. He was underthrowing Owens on numerous passes and didn't have that much zip.

Ditto with Manning back in his 1999 breakout year. I always thought he had a strong arm, but he didn't exactly have a cannon prior to his injury.

And we beat them 48-27.. that game was over in the first half.. Brady and moss were just sensational.. I often go back and watch the games from the 1st dynasty.. just how stout we were on defense.. we weren't explosive on offense but productive.. 2011 Brady just went to another level offensively..

 

[crawhammer]

Let's forget out the complexity of the game (which is one of the things we love about it). Let's forget about the fact there are 21 OTHER positions and 45 other players and 2 dozen staff who have impacts on the games. They AREN'T factors to these people. And if you don't believe it, just ask them.

That's NOT accurate. Everyone you mentioned is a factor. The question is how much of one. That's where it gets messy because the IBWTers can't stand Brady getting "too much" of the credit. When he's been a winner since day one and didn't stop for 22 seasons. While on the other hand you have everyone else including the head coach only winning when that one player is also there. So let's give credit where credit is due... the most valuable factor is Brady. Slot everyone else in there in descending order. That's it in a nutshell. And I'm repeating it because this ^ nonsense about completely disregarding everyone else besides Brady has been inaccurately stated about a 1000 times.

 

[RobertWeathers]

And we beat them 48-27.. that game was over in the first half.. Brady and moss were just sensational.. I often go back and watch the games from the 1st dynasty.. just how stout we were on defense.. we weren't explosive on offense but productive.. 2011 Brady just went to another level offensively..

Of the 01, 03 and 04 teams (or 14, 16 and 18 for that matter)...I compare them to my 3 children. Love all of them equally but all are different and appreciated in their own unique way.

 

[crawhammer]

Obviously to see if you were going to ruin it.

If the thread doesn't get unnecessarily closed then it will blow past 16 more pages. Obviously people are interested in whatever they're conversing about in the thread.

 

[crawhammer]

Does anyone think Allen? Mahomes, burrow, Jackson? Will play North of 15 seasons??

Mahomes, yes. Burrow, maybe. Allen and Jackson, doubtful.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Mahomes, yes. Burrow, maybe. Allen and Jackson, doubtful.

LJ is too fragile.

Allen needs to change his game.

Burrow as long as his knee holds up.

Mahomes is an interesting one. He'll be entering year 7 of his career and will be 28 in September. He can make plays in the pocket which is huge. He doesn't get sacked a lot and as long as he continues to be a smart runner by picking his spots and not getting blasted he can absolutely play for a long, long time.

 

[Real fan 02]

LJ is too fragile.

Allen needs to change his game.

Burrow as long as his knee holds up.

Mahomes is an interesting one. He'll be entering year 7 of his career and will be 28 in September. He can make plays in the pocket which is huge. He doesn't get sacked a lot and as long as he continues to be a smart runner by picking his spots and not getting blasted he can absolutely play for a long, long time.

The one thing that made Brady drive he said himself.. is his insatiable desire to want to win.. I believe all those QBs mentioned are great but NO ONE has the same element that made TB12 last as long as his did. I believe Mahomes plays 10-12 years.. Burrow 10-11 Allen under 10. Jackson under 10..

 

[RobertWeathers]

The one thing that made Brady drive he said himself.. is his insatiable desire to want to win.. I believe all those QBs mentioned are great but NO ONE has the same element that made TB12 last as long as his did. I believe Mahomes plays 10-12 years.. Burrow 10-11 Allen under 10. Jackson under 10..

Yep.

Tom Brady is wired differently than all of them.

Addiction. Obsession. Compulsion. Insecure. Whatever you want to classify him as. He burned hot 24/7.

Those guys play hard, want to win and improve......but not like Tom.

Hes in the Jordan, Bird, Magic discussion of psychopathic competitors with a chip on their shoulder.