Trade up possibilities

[ripatsfan91]

Trading down is the way to go, of course, but I suspect that most teams will want to trade down this year making it hard to get good value on a trade down.

Could be good news... means it would be a buyers market and wouldn't take much to move up

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Could be good news... means it would be a buyers market and wouldn't take much to move up

This is my thought exactly for the other teams. Teams are going to be coming up for players and BB is sitting in a very good spot, especially if one of the red chip prospects falls to him at #29. BB may not be able to extract as much as in previous years, but even if he just picks up a second and third, then it makes sense to do it.

PS: I would not be surprised if BB is not already looking at potential UDFA and lining up those that he thinks can help the team.

 

[mayoclinic]

I would not be surprised if BB is not already looking at potential UDFA and lining up those that he thinks can help the team.

I suspect every team is doing that. That's a basic part of making up your draft board, and in a draft this deep, even more talent will fall through undrafted. UDFA signings is effectively a "second draft", and those teams who are prepared and can move quickly have an advantage. There's nothing stopping teams from having conversations with agents about interest in prospects if they go undrafted.

 

[Huckleberry1]

PS: I would not be surprised if BB is not already looking at potential UDFA and lining up those that he thinks can help the team.

This is something that is always overlooked when people discuss Belichick and The Draft. They do a better job of scouting all of the prospects than any other team, and as a result are exceptional when it comes to acquiring and getting the most out of the undrafted free agents, and the list of those who have played significant roles for them during the Belichick era is long and substantial. Like every other team they have their hits and misses when it comes to their picks but when you add in the guys they add to the team every season who they never used a pick on it adds up to more quality than anyone else gets year in and year out. This season demonstrated it once again as they managed to get Siliga and Chris Jones in the middle of the season, and both played significant roles in their success. They do their due diligence on everyone they consider a serious prospect and when the opportunity comes to bring them in and get significant play out of them they are great at it.

 

[mayoclinic]

Trading down is the way to go, of course, but I suspect that most teams will want to trade down this year making it hard to get good value on a trade down.

Could be good news... means it would be a buyers market and wouldn't take much to move up

That's the way I see it. BB is a bit of a market contrarian, and the cost to trade up should be considerably less than "book value" with so many teams wanting to trade down.

Personally, I'd offer 29+62 (or 29+Dont'a Hightower, though BB will never do that) to Pittbsburgh to move up to 15 ahead of Dallas if Aaron Donald is still on the board.

 

[Off The Grid]

This is something that is always overlooked when people discuss Belichick and The Draft. They do a better job of scouting all of the prospects than any other team, and as a result are exceptional when it comes to acquiring and getting the most out of the undrafted free agents, and the list of those who have played significant roles for them during the Belichick era is long and substantial.

Like every other team they have their hits and misses when it comes to their picks but when you add in the guys they add to the team every season who they never used a pick on it adds up to more quality than anyone else gets year in and year out.

This season demonstrated it once again as they managed to get Siliga and Chris Jones in the middle of the season, and both played significant roles in their success.

They do their due diligence on everyone they consider a serious prospect and when the opportunity comes to bring them in and get significant play out of them they are great at it.

Great post!! :rocker:

Neither Jones nor Siliga actually qualify, but your basis premise is spot on.

In some ways, my favorite part of the Draft is the 8th Round, chasing down UFA's ~ that's "UDFA's" to you Earthlings ~ and Coach Bill II The Mad (Genius) is The Master!!

 

[supafly]

That's the way I see it. BB is a bit of a market contrarian, and the cost to trade up should be considerably less than "book value" with so many teams wanting to trade down.

Personally, I'd offer 29+62 (or 29+Dont'a Hightower, though BB will never do that) to Pittbsburgh to move up to 15 ahead of Dallas if Aaron Donald is still on the board.

Living in Pittsburgh, I've watched plenty of Aaron Donald. He was actually my choice at 29 awhile ago, until the recent combine performance, which has now put him way above our reach. I would LOVE the thought of him coming here, just love it.

I don't see a ton of value in either one of your trade scenarios though, to be honest with you (not meaning to sound negative). I just don't know if giving up our second rounder OR Don'ta Hightower would be worth it, as enticing as it sounds.

We'll obviously have a strong need for both Hightower/2nd round pick this year. For what it's worth, I'm not a big fan of Hightower either, I just think that it's too much to lose both he and Spikes in the same year.

 

[mayoclinic]

Living in Pittsburgh, I've watched plenty of Aaron Donald. He was actually my choice at 29 awhile ago, until the recent combine performance, which has now put him way above our reach. I would LOVE the thought of him coming here, just love it.

I don't see a ton of value in either one of your trade scenarios though, to be honest with you (not meaning to sound negative). I just don't know if giving up our second rounder OR Don'ta Hightower would be worth it, as enticing as it sounds.

We'll obviously have a strong need for both Hightower/2nd round pick this year. For what it's worth, I'm not a big fan of Hightower either, I just think that it's too much to lose both he and Spikes in the same year.

I know it's a long shot. There's no real chance of BB trading Hightower, but I'd be thrilled to put a guy like Christian Jones (who was strong enough against the run at Florida St. to play DT at times) in the middle instead, or move Mayo inside and put Jones at WILL. Much more playmaking and athleticism. You can probably get a thumper ILB like Max Bullough with good instincts and zone coverage ability in the 6th round. Hightower's a solid player, but I haven't seen anything that makes me feel he was worth trading up to #25 for.

Again, I'm just being provocative. It won't happen. But as PatsWickedPissah noted in another thread yesterday, the 2003-2004 SB defenses were strong up the middle, and the Pats really haven't had strength up the middle of their defense since then. Donald would be a tremendous weapon up the middle.

 

[manxman2601]

I know it's a long shot. There's no real chance of BB trading Hightower, but I'd be thrilled to put a guy like Christian Jones (who was strong enough against the run at Florida St. to play DT at times) in the middle instead, or move Mayo inside and put Jones at WILL. Much more playmaking and athleticism. You can probably get a thumper ILB like Max Bullough with good instincts and zone coverage ability in the 6th round. Hightower's a solid player, but I haven't seen anything that makes me feel he was worth trading up to #25 for.

Again, I'm just being provocative. It won't happen. But as PatsWickedPissah noted in another thread yesterday, the 2003-2004 SB defenses were strong up the middle, and the Pats really haven't had strength up the middle of their defense since then. Donald would be a tremendous weapon up the middle.

They weren't strong up the middle because everyone up the middle was injured.

 

[mayoclinic]

They weren't strong up the middle because everyone up the middle was injured.

Partly. They still lacked the strong safety presence up the middle in the secondary, and were too slow at LB in the middle. And Vince Wilfork wasn't particularly strong in the middle even before he got injured (perhaps because he was playing on a bad Achilles' to begin with). It's not automatic that just bringing back last year's group (especially 2 30+ DTs coming off season ending injuries) is going to automatically fix everything.

 

[manxman2601]

Partly. They still lacked the strong safety presence up the middle in the secondary, and were too slow at LB in the middle. And Vince Wilfork wasn't particularly strong in the middle even before he got injured (perhaps because he was playing on a bad Achilles' to begin with). It's not automatic that just bringing back last year's group (especially 2 30+ DTs coming off season ending injuries) is going to automatically fix everything.

Nor will bringing in a bunch of rookies be an automatic fix either.

 

[IllegalContact]

This is a deep draft. I think they see more value trading down than trading up. I expect us to trade out of the first to acquire more picks! I am hoping for a Mallett trade!!

middle of round 1 is pretty level all the way to round 3

 

[patfanken]

How ironic. 2 very different strategies present themselves

1. In a very deep draft, trading down offers more picks to add talented players in rounds they might not have lasted to in other years

2. Because there will be so many teams looking to trade down for all the reasons given in #1, one might not have to give up as much to move up.

"Verrrry INTERESTING" (for those old enough to remember Arte Johnson. )

 

[BobDigital]

Well considering the skill sets we need on this team the most and the talent difference between certain players IDK if I would be willing to trade up at all in this particular draft.

To me the guys I would consider doing it for are only...

Mike Evans - WR
Aaron Donald - DT
Eric Ebron - TE

However IDK if I would over extend for any. Evans is great on paper but guys of his size bust out a lot too. Ebron is thought of as the best TE in this draft but I have heard time and again ASJ & Niklas have perhaps higher ceilings.

Donald is of course a beast but DT is so deep and is he worth say Re'shede Hageman & Troy Niklas? That is hard to say.

If we want to move up to get him we will need to use our 1st and 2nd likely and we are not going to be able to trade mallet for extra picks. So in a draft this good is he worth 2 impact players?

I honestly don't think so. If we can use a 3rd to get him sure but he needs to fall pretty far for that.

 

[mayoclinic]

Donald is of course a beast but DT is so deep and is he worth say Re'shede Hageman & Troy Niklas?

Yup.

That is hard to say.

Nope, it's easy (for me, at least).

If we want to move up to get him we will need to use our 1st and 2nd likely and we are not going to be able to trade mallet for extra picks. So in a draft this good is he worth 2 impact players?

Yup. Again.

Imagine if we had traded 17+33 to Jacksonville for 10+76. Was Ras-I Dowling really worth losing out on JJ Watt? Did ANY 2nd round prospect in 2011 actually turn out to be worth losing out on JJ Watt (and I'm a Nate Solder fan)?

 

[patchick]

Imagine if we had traded 17+33 to Jacksonville for 10+76. Was Ras-I Dowling really worth losing out on JJ Watt? Did any 2nd round prospect in 2011 actually turn out to be worth losing out on JJ Watt (and I'm a Nate Solder fan)?

From vague comments Belichick made at the time, I remain convinced that he did try to trade up for Watt.

 

[mayoclinic]

From vague comments Belichick made at the time, I remain convinced that he did try to trade up for Watt.

And I hope he'll try to trade up for Donald, who I think is a similar caliber talent - the most disruptive defensive player in this draft, and someone opposing offenses will have to account for on every single player. It may not be possible, but I sure hope he would try.

When there's no transcendent value you trade back and accumulate "value". I'm all for trading back from 29 if we can't get Donald (and I'd grab Dominique Easley, who is the only guy I see with the potential to have similar disruptive capability). But if Donald is available, I'd trade up for that caliber player if at all possible any day, even in a deep, deep draft. I'd rather have Donald and no 2nd round pick then end up with someone at 29 and take DaQuan Jones (a popular mock DT to the Pats, who I think will be Ron Brace version 2.0) in the second round as a "value" pick.

 

[BobDigital]

Yup.



Nope, it's easy (for me, at least).



Yup. Again.

Imagine if we had traded 17+33 to Jacksonville for 10+76. Was Ras-I Dowling really worth losing out on JJ Watt? Did ANY 2nd round prospect in 2011 actually turn out to be worth losing out on JJ Watt (and I'm a Nate Solder fan)?

Hey Mayo, I knew you'd respond to that post.

Well I will frame it this way. If Donald is going to be our Geno Atkins (I would say he is more like him than he is Watt) then sure you absolutely trade up to get him. However that is all speculation. We have no idea how good he will or won't be.

It could be he is a complete bust and Reshede Hageman is the best player in this draft 3 years from now.

I don't fault either course of action I just think we need to pump the breaks on Donald a little.

 

[supafly]

From vague comments Belichick made at the time, I remain convinced that he did try to trade up for Watt.

Really, patchick? I wasn't aware.

That at least makes sense if true, as he seemed to be such a sure thing.

Aside from Watt, the only other player that I really wanted was the kid from Temple who came out early (on the Jets)...Mo Wilkerson. I try hard not to act scorned as a fan on missed picks in hindsight, but those 2 always stick out to me for some reason.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Well considering the skill sets we need on this team the most and the talent difference between certain players IDK if I would be willing to trade up at all in this particular draft.

To me the guys I would consider doing it for are only...

Mike Evans - WR
Aaron Donald - DT
Eric Ebron - TE

.

I would only trade up if you have to only move a few slots and the only guy I would consider doing it for would be Calvin Pryor if he slides to, say, 25. Ha. I expect him to go in the teens. To me he looks like the most dominating S in this class (but I have only see the highlights).