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Who Wins if they play each other?


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robertweathers

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Gronk got chipped every game of his career. While the ‘04 front was great, I’m not sure anyone was capable of covering him. Rodney wouldn’t have been up to the task either. But I think where 2014 would really hurt ‘04 would be Vereen and White in the passing game. Even if White wasn’t White yet. The ‘04 front was big. Because of how badly they’d whip the ‘14 OL, Brady would have to get rid of the ball quickly and I don’t see Colvin, Willie, or Vrabel being up to the task of covering those two out of the backfield. While the 2014 Patriots would be one dimensional, meaning Brady would probably have to throw it 50+ times, I don’t see the 2004 offense having to do that.

Gronk did get free releases (split wide, hashes, etc) from time to time

My point is in this game he'd get none.
 

robertweathers

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I don't think so. The 2004 team relied way more on physicality than the later 2010 teams. Hell they were specifically built like that. Some of the hits that were common back then would be ejections now.
04 had plenty of players who could play man
 

luuked

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04 had plenty of players who could play man

And playing man back then allowed a lot more contact, bigger hits and a lot more holding than what you can get away with now. It is just not comparable if you ask me because both teams were built with different rulesets in mind.
 

robertweathers

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And playing man back then allowed a lot more contact, bigger hits and a lot more holding than what you can get away with now. It is just not comparable if you ask me because both teams were built with different rulesets in mind.
I agree on the rules but because of the talent level, they'd adjust.
 

KontradictioN

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And playing man back then allowed a lot more contact, bigger hits and a lot more holding than what you can get away with now. It is just not comparable if you ask me because both teams were built with different rulesets in mind.
The rule changes were implemented between 2003 and 2004. The Patriots still went 14-2 and won the Super Bowl. They were just a very talented, and deep, squad. They adapted and they would adapt. My biggest concern would be how they’d match up with the speed and quickness of Vereen and White out of the backfield as well as Asante’s ability (back then) to cover Edelman. But 2014 Brady would absorb a lot of hits in this hypothetical game.
 

PATSYLICIOUS

Pro Bowl Player
Yep the 04 front 7, 8 was a wrecking machine.

Sey
Warren
Green
Bobby
WV
Tractor
Willie
Roman
Colvin
Vrabs
Tedy
Ted Johnson

To me, the more time passes on that collection of talent grows in stature.

This is the list I used to throw out to the ‘no titles since spygate’ crowd until 2014. That is an insane group of talent (and leadership) on one defense, and to have to replace over time. Then you have Rodney, ty, and Asante behind them as well.
 

Vindicate

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Here's another Q: What's the best team that never was beyond 2007?

I vote 2015.
 

Xerostomia

Practice Squad Player
My 1st question would be: which team had the better defense, 2004 Patriots or 2014 Seahawks? The Seahawks were loaded at almost every position with all star players. These same Seahawk players were elite playing in 2014 NFL rules. Throw them in 2004, and I bet they are even more dominant. The 2014 Patriots were walking up and down the field all game against them. Gronk is another level type player that is just not coverable.

I think the 2014 Patriots offensively were incredibly explosive, and when fully healthy, incredibly 'clutch'.

I would also argue that the 2015 Donkey's defense was also a historically great one, and I have no doubt that on a neutral field, we beat them. Heck, just give us any other center and we win in Denver.
 
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robertweathers

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This is the list I used to throw out to the ‘no titles since spygate’ crowd until 2014. That is an insane group of talent (and leadership) on one defense, and to have to replace over time. Then you have Rodney, ty, and Asante behind them as well.

Cleary Ty Law was the All-Pro but people forget how good Ty Poole was in 03. 6 Ints and 21 PDs not to mention 57 tkls. Thats a Pro Bowl year. If he came back in 04 and had a similar year 2014 has an even tougher time moving the ball.

Granted Rodney was the glue but Geno covered a lot of ground before his body quit on him. A$ante and Gay had talent and were more than serviceable. Only a front 7 like that can absorb losing both starting CBs.

So much talent. So much depth.
 

robertweathers

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My 1st question would be: which team had the better defense, 2004 Patriots or 2014 Seahawks? The Seahawks were loaded at almost every position with all star players. These same Seahawk players were elite playing in 2014 NFL rules. Throw them in 2004, and I bet they are even more dominant. The 2014 Patriots were walking up and down the field all game against them. Gronk is another level type player that is just not coverable.

I think the 2014 Patriots offensively were incredibly explosive, and when fully healthy, incredibly 'clutch'.

I would also argue that the 2015 Donkey's defense was also a historically great one, and I have no doubt that on a neutral field, we beat them. Heck, just give us any other center and we win in Denver.

I think the 04 D was better than the 2014 Hawks D.

I think the 2013 Hawks D v 2004 D is a great discussion.
 

chris_in_sunnyvale

In the Starting Line-Up
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
I'm giving the slightest of edges to '14. I'll take '14 Brady over '04 Brady and Gronk is the best supporting skill position player on either team. Both offenses will try using personel and formations to take the D out of its base and create favorable matchups and I think the '14 team is more effective at it with their roster, one reason being that '14 BB has learned a lot more about this since '04 with the league as a whole going more pass happy. I also think the '14 Pats could pick up the tempo better than '04 and use it to maintain matchup advantages and tire out the D. They had a lot more practice at that as well.

Regards,
Chris
 

luuked

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The rule changes were implemented between 2003 and 2004. The Patriots still went 14-2 and won the Super Bowl. They were just a very talented, and deep, squad. They adapted and they would adapt. My biggest concern would be how they’d match up with the speed and quickness of Vereen and White out of the backfield as well as Asante’s ability (back then) to cover Edelman. But 2014 Brady would absorb a lot of hits in this hypothetical game.

So you are saying we have had no more rule changes since 2004 that could potentially affect defenses that play with a physical edge ?
 

TheRainMaker

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Cleary Ty Law was the All-Pro but people forget how good Ty Poole was in 03. 6 Ints and 21 PDs not to mention 57 tkls. Thats a Pro Bowl year. If he came back in 04 and had a similar year 2014 has an even tougher time moving the ball.
It’s amazing how many people overlook Tyrone Poole in ‘03. It was a lost cause for opposing offenses who had to throw on 3rd down. Poole was an absolute beast in ‘03. One of my favorite free agent pick ups.
 

robertweathers

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This is a a fun, hypothetical discussion but im not seeing a 2014 D vs Dillon discussed.

Match-up: Dillion vs the 2014 defense.

2014 defense vs top runners:

Lynch 24/102 (prime Beast Mode)
Forsett 24/129 (was a 1266 yd runner in 2014)
Lacy 21/98 (was 1139yds 4.6ave in 2014)
Forte 19/114 (was 1000yd runner in 2014)
Charles 18/92 (was 1000yd 5.o carry in 2014)

Overall I think the 2014 run D was decent but not dominant. VW, Branch, High, Nink were the main guys. Chung, Seal and Ayers were decent as well.

IMO 2014 BB/D would need to dedicate considerable resources to contain Dillon. Even then I'd still expect 25/100+ from Clock Killin' vs 2014 D.

In comparison, 2004 D would stop LG with its eyes closed.
 

robertweathers

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I don't see that talent they had translating into what football looks right now as optimistic as you do.
We disagree. My belief if talent is properly developed, managed and coached it can overcome any rule or era
 

robertweathers

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It’s amazing how many people overlook Tyrone Poole in ‘03. It was a lost cause for opposing offenses who had to throw on 3rd down. Poole was an absolute beast in ‘03. One of my favorite free agent pick ups.
...and he was a different DB than Ty. Shorter but not small. Fast. Twitchy. Sticky.

In the hypothetical matchup, hes on vs JE11 no question. Even DA sometimes. They'll use Law on LaFell or even put him on Gronk sometimes
 
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