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PATRIOTS NEWS Tom Brady, NFLPA Granted 14-Day Extension To File Motion For Rehearing By Second Circuit Court

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Great backpedal.

Am I to assume you're one of these messageboard contrarians who just likes to argue?

I've never known an adult to admit that they think a judge, cop, lawyer, etc, have never taken a payoff before in this country's history, but I guess there is a first time for everything.

You're either under the age of 14, new to this country or beyond naive as an adult.

Go watch Making of A Murderer on Netflix and tell me Steven Avery is not Tom Brady. And, then tell me those cops, lawyers and the judges weren't all in on it, along with the jury, pushing money around to frame Avery yet again.
So I could call you a child rapist, and when you say you are not, I could respond with I don't know anyone who doesn't think people have raped children, and that would show you to be naïve?
 
Can the NFL en banc the AD decision if the NFL loses?
Well, they can request an en banc hearing. As with Brady, there are no guarantees they get heard.
 
No.

Did I say that?

Do you think judges, lawyers, cops, etc, have ever taken payoffs in this country?

Answer me that first.

You sound like a naive 14 year old. Comical.

I think you are confusing judges, lawyers and cops with politians every one of them have taken bribes. Federal Judges are appointed for life, so they are not highly suspectable to bribes. lawyers are paid by clients to try and obtain a certain outcome. Exactly who would be bribing them? The opposing counsel? Not to say that lawyers aren't the scum of the earth, but it would be tough to find a situation in which it would behoove anyone to bribe them. If you think cops are taken bribes, you watch too much TV, most of the time there are multiple cops at any scene, too many to all bribe, and policing is a reactionary business, so even if a single cop would take a bribe, the criminal would have to have a ton of cash on him at the time he is apprehended.

Cops have frequent and repeating background checks which include financial disclosures and polygraphs, imagine what would happen if you put Bill Clinton on a polygraph!
 
Can the NFL en banc the AD decision if the NFL loses?

Yes, the NFL can ask for en banc review if it does not like the outcome of the case. Doesn't mean they will get it, of course.
 
Just don't get your CA2 hopes up too much. According to this 2009 NY Law Journal article, CA2 is really, really, really stingy re: en banc and has been for at least half a century. They are five times stingier than the next stingiest circuit (CA1, BTW):

http://www.friedfrank.com/siteFiles/Publications/A1D9C521FD91B7F046A900FE14B8B72E.pdf
I don't find statistics as these to be terribly useful because that doesn't take into account unusual circumstances. A case like this probably doesn't fit into the purely random chance as described above.

It is like saying the Patriots have a 1/32 chance to win the Super Bowl this year.
 
I think you are confusing judges, lawyers and cops with politians every one of them have taken bribes. Federal Judges are appointed for life, so they are not highly suspectable to bribes. lawyers are paid by clients to try and obtain a certain outcome. Exactly who would be bribing them? The opposing counsel? Not to say that lawyers aren't the scum of the earth, but it would be tough to find a situation in which it would behoove anyone to bribe them. If you think cops are taken bribes, you watch too much TV, most of the time there are multiple cops at any scene, too many to all bribe, and policing is a reactionary business, so even if a single cop would take a bribe, the criminal would have to have a ton of cash on him at the time he is apprehended.

Cops have frequent and repeating background checks which include financial disclosures and polygraphs, imagine what would happen if you put Bill Clinton on a polygraph!

Are you kidding here? Whoever is crooked is there for the taking. It's not specific to one role in our criminal justice system. If you can be had, money talks.

Go watch Making of a Murderer and tell me judges, cops and that scumbag lawyer Kratz were not all in cahoots there, as the country owed millions for a fraudulent conviction of Avery in 1995.
 
So I could call you a child rapist, and when you say you are not, I could respond with I don't know anyone who doesn't think people have raped children, and that would show you to be naïve?

Sure, sounds just fantastic.

Andy Johnson is a belligerent board bully member here at PatsFans.com. Duly noted.

Good day.
 
It is like saying the Patriots have a 1/32 chance to win the Super Bowl this year.
Hah! If it was 1/32, both "CameraPlacementGate" and "DefameTomBradyGate" probably wouldn't have happened! This is SO messed up!
 
Why would the NFLPA ask for an appeal if they win the Adrian Peterson case????

I have no idea. I was confused by his question.

Once the decision is made, that is it. So, I am not sure how the NFL can ask for a stay via En Banc. Unless I was reading it wrong.

What I do know is, the last CBA was like the Versailles Treaty and a bad, bad deal, really for both sides. A working relationship between two parties, even if one has the stronger side, needs to be healthy.

In 2011, the NFL was England/France and the NFLPA was Germany/Austria-Hungary.
 
Once the decision is made, that is it. So, I am not sure how the NFL can ask for a stay via En Banc. Unless I was reading it wrong.

The Peterson case is before a 3-judge panel of the Eighth Circuit. Some day, that panel will hand down its decision. If a party is dissatisfied with the decision they can file a petition for en banc review with the Eighth Circuit. Just like we're talking about the NFLPA doing in the Second Circuit in the Brady case.
 
I don't find statistics as these to be terribly useful because that doesn't take into account unusual circumstances. A case like this probably doesn't fit into the purely random chance as described above.

It is like saying the Patriots have a 1/32 chance to win the Super Bowl this year.

I'm willing to bet that in any given year the Second Circuit sees many far more important and interesting cases than this one and yet they still very seldom grant en banc review. If they don't do it for those, I wouldn't expect they do it for this.

Obviously, I'd be ecstatic to be proven wrong.
 
I'm willing to bet that in any given year the Second Circuit sees many far more important and interesting cases than this one and yet they still very seldom grant en banc review. If they don't do it for those, I wouldn't expect they do it for this.

Obviously, I'd be ecstatic to be proven wrong.
I've never looked into that sort of thing, but isn't this a huge labor vs management case? Or is it not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things?
 
The Peterson case is before a 3-judge panel of the Eighth Circuit. Some day, that panel will hand down its decision. If a party is dissatisfied with the decision they can file a petition for en banc review with the Eighth Circuit. Just like we're talking about the NFLPA doing in the Second Circuit in the Brady case.

Interesting.
 
Most of the time, I can't find the patience to read long posts here.
I'm really glad I read this one.
This clearly took some time to write, and you deserve 1,000 Patsfans gold stars for the contribution.

Good advice.

I've always made it clear that IANAL, but I am deeply plugged into the legal and political worlds in NY and Boston (much less in DC these days). I've known one SCOTUS Justice for over 25 years and have friends that are very close to others. I have more friends than I can count who have clerked for Supreme Court Justices. To a person, they don't say a word about what they are told by their boss occurs after the door to the Justices Conference Room is closed on Wednesday and Friday mornings, or in Chambers, but it is possible to get a sense of how their world works.

I was fortunate to be able to get a read on Judge Berman from people I know, including some in the media, last year and pretty well nailed his profile out here a few days after he was named. Dumb luck that it turned out I was on the money when he issued his ruling, but people seem to listen when I write about this stuff. I try to be straight about what I know and where I'm just guessing. I don't claim to be infallible, but I can tell when people have no idea what they are talking about.

Quantum has been particularly insightful and a wealth of information in this and other threads; he seems to know a lot more than I do. There have been others as well who have provided a lot of information and insight.

It's hard not to call out some of the uninformed nonsense that gets put forth out here, but your reference to Dunning-Kruger is a good reminder of what is going on in some cases. The people who say that Chin and/or Parker were "bribed" or "greased" are just embarrassing themselves; they're trying to blame Chin for Kessler's lack of preparation and for throwing up all over himself in the hearing. The greatest irony, of course, is when some of the most delusional and truly naive accuse those of us who actually know what we are talking about of being "naive." Gives me a chuckle every time.

So, I've pretty well said what I think in other posts in this thread and won't go into the details again, but here's where I come down:

I think there is a 50--50 chance that the NFLPA will get an en banc review (high odds given the track record of CA2), should Olson formally seek such (which as of noon today he has not yet done), partially out of deference to Chief Judge Katzmann, partially out of respect for Olson and partially because it was a split decision, making it 2--2 among the Federal Judges who have heard the case.

I think it's very unlikely but not impossible that the NFLPA would prevail in that review. The majority opinion is clear: " The basic principle driving both our analysis and our conclusion is well established: a federal court’s review of labor arbitration awards is narrowly circumscribed and highly deferential—indeed, among the most deferential in the law." (it goes on from there; you can read it for yourselves)

Katzmann, in his dissent, clearly argues that: "When the Commissioner, acting in his capacity as an arbitrator, changes the factual basis for the disciplinary action after the appeal hearing concludes, he undermines the fair notice for which the Association bargained, deprives the player of an opportunity to confront the case against him, and, it follows, exceeds his limited authority under the CBA to decide “appeals” of disciplinary decisions." (there's more, which you can read for yourselves)

Those two paragraphs essentially lay out the difference between the Garvey and the Steelworkers decisions. By suggesting that Goodell had "undermind[ed]" the bargaining agreement and "exceed[ed]" his "authority," Katzmann is suggesting that the NFL has violated the "essence" of the CBA and that Goodell was thereby dispensing "his own brand of Industrial Justice," which would trump the traditional deference given to an arbiter.

So, can Olson make the second view of the case stick in an en banc brief? Can Olson weave, in 30 pages or so, a credible tale that the NFL lied and distorted the truth (repeatedly) in its pursuit of Brady, thereby violating the "essence" of the CBA?

That's an uphill climb without being able to subpoena and depose witnesses, but the NFL's behavior was so poor that it is not impossible. As I've said before, if anyone can do it, the guy who (effectively) sold the legitimacy of GWB's election to the Supreme Court is the guy who can do it.

If they don't prevail in the en banc review, I don't think there's much of a chance that SCOTUS will take the case unless CA8 finds for Peterson and leaves a Split between two Appeals Courts.

In that event, the Court would only take the case if four (I believe it's four) members take the view that it is important enough to Labor Law to resolve the Split between two Appellate Courts. I have no idea how to handicap that.

I also think it's more likely that the SCOTUS Circuit Justice (Ginsburg) would grant a Temporary Stay of Brady's Suspension, pending a decision by the entire Court, if there is a Split. If there isn't a Split and she determines that it's inevitable that the case will quickly find its way into the very big pile of cases that are turned down, it's possible that she won't grant a Stay. But, I'm just guessing there.

As some of you know, in the last week or so, SCOTUS has started to move at a decelerated pace, referring as many matters as possible back to lower courts for compromise or reconsideration and, in general, limiting its rulings to cases that, while important, are primarily technical in nature.

So we have no idea (a) whether the court will take the case or (b) return it to SDNY to be fiddled with until there are nine justices (given the importance of the case) or (c) when it will issue its decision in these regards; early October seems most likely, according to Quantum.

This means that Brady could have to start serving his Suspension in October/November...or never...or September...or later...take your pick. I could make an argument for any one of the possibilities...

I have nothing more to say on this in this thread until we see what Olson's strategy and approach are.

In the meantime, we can all dream that CA2 will agree to hear the Appeal en banc, sua sponte.
 
I don't find statistics as these to be terribly useful because that doesn't take into account unusual circumstances. A case like this probably doesn't fit into the purely random chance as described above.

It is like saying the Patriots have a 1/32 chance to win the Super Bowl this year.

No its 1-27. The Jets, Bills, Dolphins, Lions and Browns have no chance.
 
I don't think bribes are taking place in this situation, but I wouldn't rule out the odd masonic handshake here and there.
 
Most of the time, I can't find the patience to read long posts here.
I'm really glad I read this one.
This clearly took some time to write, and you deserve 1,000 Patsfans gold stars for the contribution.
Thanks for the nice words. It's what happens when I have a very bad cold that leaves me not up to working but with enough energy to bloviate. Gave me a chance to organize my thoughts...plus, there was a lot of gibberish in the thread that I wanted to address.
 
That's not how it works in practice. The application for a stay would be made to her, but it is standard procedure for the overseeing justice to refer such things to the entire court. She might grant a very short-term stay to give the full court time to consider the stay application, but it is unlikely she'd unilaterally grant a stay-pending-decision-to-hear-the-case-or-not.
Well, like i said in my post I was only going on..." what I read..", from several sources, but mostly Florio. I know you do a lot of research on this stuff, which is greatly appreciated, since I have neither the time nor the inclination to do it myself. But Im pretty sure youre not an attorney. I believe Florio is. I also know hes much better connected to the nfl than you, so I'll have to respectfully disagree with you here. BTW, the lead story Ian posted on this site this morning pretty much mirrors what i said yesterday-which it should since we're both quoting Florio. Ive never used a "disagree" or "dislike" button-but since you did gotta return the favor. Btw, That big red X looks very unfriendly-and doesnt really fit. To me, disagreeing is what most people do here-and its not an unfriendly thing. Now "dislike" is a whole nother story. I would propose that Ian changes that big red X to" disagree". You could very well be right. But i know BOTH of us hope not.
 
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